Please seek out medical help if you are having symptoms that could be a serious disease.

[[ma...]]

@[Ma...] i correct , lee did not talk about mafia .

i did

[[ma...]]

@[Le...] i corrected it in the next post

[[WU...]]

22 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

"risking to offend someone"

Actually I think people choose to be offended and use that to strengthen their case, when really it is better to just give a counter-argument and forget about being offended or not. I could say I was offended by something and use that offence for the sympathy vote but that would just be manipulative. It is a tactic used to convince a jury in a court of law, very persuasive to gain sympathy. So I prefer not to take offence about anything and just answer with what I think on any given subject, otherwise we will end up too scared to say anything!

[[Pa...]]

30 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

But you should be able to say it, even risking to offend someone, it's impossible to please everyone, if you try to please everyone, someone won't like it.

Did you bother to read the policy guidelines I attached to my post?  Our policy isn't about offending anyone, it isn't about being rude or not liking what you say, its about the fact that like it or not, our members need their doctors, and bashing doctors when members are vulnerable and scared isn't good for their health.  Do we acknowledge the medical profession is imperfect, absolutely, I have my own issues with some of the care I've received but in a health emergency, what are my or anyone's choices?

These are our guidelines, everyone agrees to them when they join the platform, this thread will be shut down if it continues to flaunt guidelines. 

34 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Yes. Likely cause of my comment about personality types attracted to the medical field. Something it is very useful to consider but some people may find rude. 

 

[Guest [Do...]]

7 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

this thread will be shut down if it continues to flaunt guidelines. 

Go ahead, is ok for me, censorship at the next step, first we forbid what you can say, then we shut you up completely. This is so wrong, cancelling members and censoring topics, just like in real life, out of this echo chamber.

I guess i will be the next with his posts reviewed and hijacked. You can kick me out or shadowban me but you can't tell me what i can say or think.

Edited August 4 by Guest
typo

[[Le...]]

35 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

Go ahead, is ok for me, censorship at the next step, first we forbid what you can say, then we shut you up completely. This is so wrong, cancelling members and censoring topics, just like in real life, out of this echo chamber.

I guess i will be the next with his posts reviewed and hijacked. You can kick me out or shadowban me but you can't tell me what i can say or think.

let it go.  there is no more to do here besides vent. wont help anyone.  even the guidelines are getting misinterpreted now cause things are getting a bit too extreme here.  the message I wrote to clarify that some objections were cause of perceived rudeness not anti doctor sentiment was actually quoted by Mod as an example for the guidelines. I love irony. 

Edited August 4 by [Le...]

[[Co...]]

On 02/08/2024 at 01:22, [[M...] said:

   I am a medical professional.  I have read several posts lately of people trying to decide whether they have a serious disease or benzo WD symptoms.  Please DO NOT chalk everything up to benzos!  “Do not self diagnose” still applies to us like it does to the rest of the population.  We are still affected by other medical illnesses as we go through this process.  
   Benzos cause a wide spectrum of physical symptoms as we all know and can mimic lots of diseases. So I’m not discounting that a lot of what people experience IS benzo WD related.  But if you have any concern at all about a serious disease, please go get checked to rule it out.  I’ve seen people trying to decide between benzo WD and everything from heart disease to cancer to serious neurologic diseases. Express your concerns to your provider about benzo WD and let them make sure that’s all it is.  This is the end of my public service announcement.  

9 hours ago, [[M...] said:

7 hours ago, [WU...] said:

No I am stating my personal experience from ALL the doctors I have seen over the years. Never seen a psychiatrist, just GP's and various hospital consultants who all prescribed either benzos or AD's for chronic neck spasms. I only ever took benzos and painkillers and not one of them explained what these drugs did to the brain if taken over a long period of time.   I cannot comment on the rest of the medical profession, only my 

My only point that I will reiterate is that if you’ve got a symptom that’s worrisome and/or it persists/worsens, get it checked out.  It may well be benzo WD that’s causing it, but it could be something more serious that needs medical attention. 

The above posts are only stating the obvious, and mirror BB's position on this matter. Every single presumed benzodiazepine withdrawal symptom can have causes other than benzodiazepine use or withdrawal. If you have any unexplained medical problems or symptoms, you should see a doctor to rule out other causes. It would be a real shame, for example, if that numbness down your left arm was actually a symptom of heart attack rather than benzodiazpeine withdrawal, and you decided to do nothing about it.

Nothing from @[Ma...] or anyone else in this thread has suggested that any of the reported benzo withdrawal symptoms do not exist. Only, they all can have other causes which should be ruled out.

[[Le...]]

27 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

The above posts are only stating the obvious, and correlate with BB's position on this matter. Every single presumed benzodiazepine withdrawal symptom can have causes other than benzodiazepine use or withdrawal. If you have any unexplained medical problems or symptoms, you should see a doctor to rule out other causes. It would be a real shame, for example, if that numbness down your left arm was actually a symptom of heart attack rather than benzodiazpeine withdrawal, and you decided to do nothing about it.

Nothing from @[Ma...] or anyone else in this thread has suggested that any of the reported benzo withdrawal symptoms do not exist. Only, they all can have other causes which should be ruled out.

Learning about all the WD possibilities so you dont end up living at the doctors office is still the solution. There is symptom overlap with benzo recovery and almost every illness. We have all read the posts and lived it. Everyone goes through this mess choosing a new illness every week. Lyme, diabetes, MS, alzheimer's, strokes. You will spend your whole recovery fretting and getting sicker if you take this route. Rarely will you be treated well when seeking help too. Its just more harm. Recipe for disaster this advice but noone wants to disagree because there is a 0.001% chance this advice will go wrong for someone. Even if you have a serious problem there is a 0.001% chance you will be taken seriously before you are recovered too and a huge chance you will be treated for something you dont actually have.  the risk outweighs the reward  

 

 

 

[[je...]]

Great advice @[Ma...]. And not just for life threatening illnesses. I am a living example of it. A week after I jumped I developed “benzo belly”. I struggled with cramps, bloating and diarrhoea for 5 months that pretty much kept me housebound. Eventually I mentioned it to my doctor who is amazing. She diagnosed me with gluten intolerance. My “benzo belly” was cured in a couple of weeks. If I were to listen to some of the advice on this thread I would still suffer to this day. 

[[Le...]]

9 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Great advice @[Ma...]. And not just for life threatening illnesses. I am a living example of it. A week after I jumped I developed “benzo belly”. I struggled with cramps, bloating and diarrhoea for 5 months that pretty much kept me housebound. Eventually I mentioned it to my doctor who is amazing. She diagnosed me with gluten intolerance. My “benzo belly” was cured in a couple of weeks. If I were to listen to some of the advice on this thread I would still suffer to this day. 

good example really. gluten irritates everyone a little and some lots. your sensitive belly in recovery can benefit from all the pampering you can manage. that one also reduces your carbs a lot which is good. its a symptom. 

do any celiac tests?  hope you didnt let them biopsy your colon. 

[[Co...]]

34 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Learning about all the WD possibilities so you dont end up living at the doctors office is still the solution. There is symptom overlap with benzo recovery and almost every illness. We have all read the posts and lived it. Everyone goes through this mess choosing a new illness every week. Lyme, diabetes, MS, alzheimer's, strokes. You will spend your whole recovery fretting and getting sicker if you take this route. Rarely will you be treated well when seeking help too. Its just more harm. Recipe for disaster this advice but noone wants to disagree because there is a 0.001% chance this advice will go wrong for someone. Even if you have a serious problem there is a 0.001% chance you will be taken seriously before you are recovered too and a huge chance you will be treated for something you dont actually have.  the risk outweighs the reward  

Your assumption of the risks are faulty. A quick Google shows that (in the US), about 0.24% of the population suffer a stroke each year, and it is about the same for heart attacks. You can search for other disorders/illnesses.

Of course, we would wish to avoid seeing the doctor about each and every twinge we experience during withdrawal. But if a member suffers unexplained (read, diagnosed) symptoms, the better, safer advice is to suggest that they see a doctor to rule out other causes. It is not sensible (or safe) for us to suggest that they assume that it is caused by benzodiazepine withdrawal.

I agree that we should not assume the worst, but neither should we assume symptoms to be benign. The approach I usually take when a member seeks feedback about symptoms which very well could be caused by withdrawal of benzodiazepines is to agree (where appropriate) that it could be withdrawal related, but that if they are in any doubt, they should seek the advice of their doctor to rule out other causes. We cannot know, so we should not pretend otherwise.

[[Le...]]

the numbers i used were to make a point. not real because there is no way to have real numbers. i really dont care to get too much into this today but you havent really refuted much there. the answer is still to understand wd and avoid harms. i cant give you numbers on things what cause WD setbacks cause such things are swept under the rug as WD harms are.  

there is always risk. either way. this advice will lead people to more panic and more visits to doctors with little or no understanding of what is happening to them. lots of harmful testing and treatments. 

out of time  will give more thought another time  

 

[[Si...]]

Guys whenever I see a doctor come on these forums and takes a leap to write on here It puts a smile on my face. because we can blame a certain doctor or a certain amount of doctors all we want but in the end it is a broader health care issue regarding benzodiazepines, and we are not the only group. there are painkillers, long covid, Lyme disease  and much not yet well understood functional neurological disorders. or much that has to do with the brain for that matter. we aren't there yet. 
all of it has to be studied and updated in the school educational system in order to break this cycle. or go through different routes like is happening in recent years raising awareness through the likes of the internet or other doctors catching on talking about it face to face with other doctors. The medical system as a whole isnt perfect but its the best we got and you or me might need it further down the road.
Ofcourse the best ideal would be to have a healthy lifestyle, be well informed, eat, drink, sleep, feel and move well. but that doesnt always cut it. (never give up though Im persistent as hell!)

Im not saying there hasnt been any doc that hasn't done you wrong sure there has been. I have been through the same thing. and guess what since januari this year I decided to go through it all again after 2.5 years or something. I must be nutz right? well If I didnt, I would not have known that I had sleep apnea and things would have been even worse. It took time to heal to take that step again emotionally and give the medical field the trust it does deserve but not entirely, so with a benzo and life wise scope now in my backpack I enter. 
That being said sometimes choices are very difficult and complex. 
It took me a lot of effort and preparation and a better GP this time around for sure, and im not done yet, I plan to do it this year and hopefully get to the root of my most serious symptom.  

Eitherway it puts a smile of hope on my face because we gotto meet eachother in order to progress from what has happened to us so it wont happen to others, right? (or less often or to a lesser extend ANY positive progression is a win!)
So with all respect if you are not in that position yet or never will be again. I understand I do and will accept whatever harshness you throw out. but do know these a separate doctors, a different person, one that is willing to come on this forum FOR ONE REASON. already is different then THAT Doctor you had mind.
 just my 2 cents.


also, What the person quoted below mentioned imo is usually the best approach.

3 hours ago, [[W...] said:

Actually I think people choose to be offended and use that to strengthen their case, when really it is better to just give a counter-argument and forget about being offended or not. I could say I was offended by something and use that offence for the sympathy vote but that would just be manipulative. It is a tactic used to convince a jury in a court of law, very persuasive to gain sympathy. So I prefer not to take offence about anything and just answer with what I think on any given subject, otherwise we will end up too scared to say anything!

Edited August 4 by [Si...]

[[Le...]]

numbers and quotes for those that like em. 

 

Globally, medication-related errors are responsible for 5% to 41.3% of all hospital admissions and 22% of readmissions after discharge. The incidence of medication errors is 30% higher in patients who are prescribed five or more drugs and 38% higher in those 75 years or older.Feb 12, 2024

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › NB...

 

Medication Dispensing Errors and Prevention - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

 

 

 

[[WU...]]

1 minute ago, [[L...] said:

The incidence of medication errors is 30% higher in patients who are prescribed five or more drugs

Ouch ! I was talking to our postman the other day and he told me that he was now busy delivering all the medication locally since they closed the local pharmacy. He said some people were on 15 medications, he couldn't believe it. Supposing by mistake he delivered to the wrong addresses or the dispensary posted out incorrectly, so that's more error on top of being prescribed incorrectly !   

[[Ma...]]

2 hours ago, [[j...] said:

Great advice @[Ma...]. And not just for life threatening illnesses. I am a living example of it. A week after I jumped I developed “benzo belly”. I struggled with cramps, bloating and diarrhoea for 5 months that pretty much kept me housebound. Eventually I mentioned it to my doctor who is amazing. She diagnosed me with gluten intolerance. My “benzo belly” was cured in a couple of weeks. If I were to listen to some of the advice on this thread I would still suffer to this day. 

Thank you for sharing.  These are precisely the types of diseases that I’m referring to.  And Celiac disease is very common but most people don’t know about it.  Most cases can be diagnosed with a blood test. Biopsy may be needed to confirm. Glad you sought out medical attention.  

[[Le...]]

she didnt get diagnosed with celiac. there is no harm is giving up wheat though. got off easy. she got misdiagnosed with gluten intolerance when she was sick from benzo recovery. 

Edited August 4 by [Le...]

[[je...]]

19 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

she didnt get diagnosed with celiac. there is no harm is giving up wheat though. got off easy. she got misdiagnosed with gluten intolerance when she was sick from benzo recovery. 

I was NOT misdiagnosed with gluten intolerance.  I thought I had benzo belly but my doctor correctly diagnosed me with NCGS when I finally decided to mention it to her. 

22 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

got off easy

But thanks for trivialising my experience. I wouldn’t expect anything less after the many complaints we have received about your behaviour on this thread. 

[[Le...]]

alright. what test diagnosed that?

 

I and likely everyone else experiences relief on cutting down carbs and other irritants. It isnt an unreasonable conclusion. wrong most likely but you can see how it happens. 

any chance the same doc diagnosed emf sensitivity?  no couldnt be anything wrong with hanging your head over yer phone while on yer butt 8hrs a day. Apple likely said so. has got to be those emfs. luckily that tinfoil hat was nearby. whew. 

Edited August 4 by [Le...]

[[Mo...]]

4 hours ago, [[C...] said:

The above posts are only stating the obvious, and mirror BB's position on this matter. Every single presumed benzodiazepine withdrawal symptom can have causes other than benzodiazepine use or withdrawal. If you have any unexplained medical problems or symptoms, you should see a doctor to rule out other causes. It would be a real shame, for example, if that numbness down your left arm was actually a symptom of heart attack rather than benzodiazpeine withdrawal, and you decided to do nothing about it.

Nothing from @[Ma...] or anyone else in this thread has suggested that any of the reported benzo withdrawal symptoms do not exist. Only, they all can have other causes which should be ruled out.

Thank you!

[[Ma...]]

2 hours ago, [[L...] said:

she didnt get diagnosed with celiac. there is no harm is giving up wheat though. got off easy. she got misdiagnosed with gluten intolerance when she was sick from benzo recovery. 

Nor did I say she did.  The symptoms and treatment of NCGS and CD are basically the same but the 2 need to be differentiated by medical testing because one carries the risks of other autoimmune diseases and a higher risk of lymphoma among other complications, and one does not.  Again, if you don’t go to see a clinician and get the appropriate rule out tests, you’ll never know. 

Edited August 5 by [Ma...]

[[Le...]]

the only effect your post will have is to send more people to the doctors office in a panic for no reason after you spike their anxiety.  perhaps it also reinforces your faith in the trade a bit. people were already heading there if their face goes slack or they start bleeding out their ass. 

the answer is still to understand WD and avoid more harm. its too complicated and few will see someone competent or knowledgeable. 

this isnt anti doctor or anything like that at all. it is practical. 

i have had people suggest almost every treatment you shouldnt try to me. the lucky ones come away with an improved diet. 

Edited August 5 by [Le...]