Help please

[[Li...]]

@[El...] @[Pa...] I will be cutting tonight with the help of my boyfriend for measurements. Are Night sweats and hot flashes normal? This has been consistent but I don't think I should hold longer? I also wanted to know from experiences if some symptoms subside during tapering? Again I want to thank you

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Li...], I don't know if night sweats and hot flashes are normal for withdrawal because I was recovering around the same time I was hitting perimenopause, so it was typical for me. 

As for symptoms, I've seen members mention them getting better when tapering, of course sometimes its just one set of symptoms leaving and another set taking their place but that can be progress, right? 

[[El...]]

@[Li...] I agree with @[Pa...].  Symptoms come and go.  Some disappear for quite a long time, then pop again or perhaps a new symptom takes its place.  Sometimes you go through seasons of relately few symptoms.  Sometimes (especially, for me, if I taper too fast), symptoms are more aggessive.  It is all part of the process of healing.

Let us know how your first "cut" goes!

[[Li...]]

@[Pa...] @[El...]. Hi, I just wanted to give an update. I made my first cut on Thursday night, so it's been about 3 1/2 days. My question is, when would you feel the cut from Lorazepam?   
This Weekend, I seemed to be  better. I actually worked about 5 hours yesterday  (with symptoms). Today, I am drained, and I don't feel like doing much. I don't know if this is from pushing myself yesterday and Saturday or the cut? Muscle cramps have subsided today. I just feel out of it. Major fear seems to have subsided as well. I still have a loss of focus and anxiety/ semi internal Shakiness. 

[[El...]]

@[Li...] Congratulations.  You seem to be doing well!

I think the time frame for experiencing symptoms varies between individuals. I usually "feel" a reduction within 24-48 hours.  Others, tapering ativan, have reported that it takes them at least 7-10 days to feel the effects of a reduction.  This is one of the reasons we suggest you wait 7-10 days before attempting another reduction.  If you wait 7-10 days and your symptoms intensify, that is an indication that you need to first hold longer to restabilize, then consider a smaller percentage reduction in the future.  If you remain functionally stable, you could perhaps either reduce the same percentage again, or consider a equally-sized percentage reduction within a shorter time frame next time, or even make a slightly larger percentage reduction.   

I know it is a thin line to walk, but try not to get overly occupied with your symptoms, just let them guide you.

So glad that things are going well!

[[Li...]]

37 minutes ago, [[E...] said:

@[Li...] Congratulations.  You seem to be doing well!

I think the time frame for experiencing symptoms varies between individuals. I usually "feel" a reduction within 24-48 hours.  Others, tapering ativan, have reported that it takes them at least 7-10 days to feel the effects of a reduction.  This is one of the reasons we suggest you wait 7-10 days before attempting another reduction.  If you wait 7-10 days and your symptoms intensify, that is an indication that you need to first hold longer to restabilize, then consider a smaller percentage reduction in the future.  If you remain functionally stable, you could perhaps either reduce the same percentage again, or consider a equally-sized percentage reduction within a shorter time frame next time, or even make a slightly larger percentage reduction.   

I know it is a thin line to walk, but try not to get overly occupied with your symptoms, just let them guide you.

So glad that things are going well!

@[El...] I will touch base again Sunday. I hope all is well

[[Li...]]

On 09/08/2024 at 11:19, [[L...] said:

Can stabilizing take long? I feel like I had a major setback today

@[Co...]

[[Li...]]

On 29/07/2024 at 08:23, [[L...] said:

Hi, everyone. I'm in deep distress and was wondering if someone could help me. I have been on Ativan anywhere from 1 to 2 Mil a day for the past 5 weeks due to having a massive panick attack while driving. The anxiety is still spiraling even with the ativan. I'm so nerveous to stop taking them because my anxiety is off the roof and even more scared of withdrawal symptoms. If anyone can help with how taper or how bad this experience will be? Thank you so much 

@[Co...]

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Li...], is there a reason you've tagged Colin, is there something I can help you with?

[[Li...]]

18 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[Li...], is there a reason you've tagged Colin, is there something I can help you with?

@[Pa...] I wasn't aware that I couldn't message someone, " Colin said to tag instead. Im sorry about the inbox.. I saw a post about Ativan and a faster taper for short-term use. I am OK. I am just hysterical crying over this entire process. I just want to be off this already. I am trying my best to get through, but this is just so tormenting sometimes. Taper,  fast, slow, this percent,  that, percent, etc! I don't even know how my body can guide me when I do not even trust it sometimes or my own mind. My deepest apologies , but sometimes I don't know how to deal with the obsession over this 24/7. Sometimes, I just need someone to talk to.

[[El...]]

@[Li...] I am so sorry you continue to experience this roller-coaster of symptoms.  Try to remember that this is just the withrawal/ativan "talking" to you.  These symptoms can be loud and annoying and can cause fear.  But, you have come a long, long way in just a couple of short months.  You have a solid plan for your reductions. You have been very successful getting through this so far and there is every reason to believe that, given the time needed, you will be free of this drug.

I know it is very difficult to not obsess over the process.  But you are doing well.  No fears!  No worries...really!

[[Li...]]

2 minutes ago, [[E...] said:

@[Li...] I am so sorry you continue to experience this roller-coaster of symptoms.  Try to remember that this is just the withrawal/ativan "talking" to you.  These symptoms can be loud and annoying and can cause fear.  But, you have come a long, long way in just a couple of short months.  You have a solid plan for your reductions. You have been very successful getting through this so far and there is every reason to believe that, given the time needed, you will be free of this drug.

I know it is very difficult to not obsess over the process.  But you are doing well.  No fears!  No worries...really!

@[El...] I know I am doing better I get so obessed with the taper process. If I continue to cut at 2.5%.Won't that take me 3 years?,  I don't even know if I would be prescribed it for that long? I think Of these things , because it is a valid fear. Sometimes the fear isn't the symptoms.It's the taper.  It's not that I want to rush it.I don't trust the process as far as becoming more dependent.And my doctor ripping me off of it .

[[Pa...]]

I'm so sorry to hear how distressed you are, but I can almost hear @[El...]'s calm voice trying to reassure you, I wish it were enough. 

You're more than welcome to tag anyone you like, I know Colin is very busy with some platform business so don't be disappointed if he can't respond at the moment. 

We absolutely suggest doing a more rapid taper for short time users but this depends on how much they can withstand, its different for everyone.  

I wonder if you would benefit from reading a thread our members started years ago?  This is the 'talking' @[El...] mentioned.  Maybe I've already provided this link to you, I'm not sure. 

 

 

[[El...]]

@[Li...] I do understand your fears!  But, I really highly doubt it will take 3 years to complete your taper.  (After 35 years on a benzo, myself, and starting my taper at 3 mg, I do not think it will even take me 3 years.)  I don't think you will be become more dependent as you taper.  The purpose of a slower, symptom-led taper is to very gradually reduce your physical dependence (not increase it)..and do so in a more comfortable fashion.  

I know it all seems almost impossible at times, but please try to trust in this process.  You are feeling better.  That is a huge accomplishment!  You are getting better!  And you will be successful.

[[Co...]]

Hello @[Li...]

Withdrawal from short-term use normally should be completed swiftly. Indeed, sudden cessation is often advised by doctors in these situations and for truly short-term use; this is usually safe and the correct thing to do.

Short-term use, in this context, means days or some weeks of use (maybe even a month or two). But there is no exact cut-off point, since the withdrawal schedule is dictated by the depth (or risk) of developing dependency, and this is highly variable. Some people become quite dependent with a few weeks, whereas for others, it might take many months. Some can even quit at a rapid rate after years of use with few ill-effects.

But the danger of developing dependency increases the longer we taken the benzodiazepine, frequency of use (and half-life value), and the dose to some degree too. The shorter the length of use, generally speaking, the more aggressive the taper we might attempt to follow. But we should remain flexible, and adjust our taper rate according to how we react.

@[El...] I am not aware of any robust research in this area, but the greatest risk factor in developing dependency is length of use. Simply because we are tapering does not remove the risk of developing dependency. Yes, a reduced dose is positive in reducing the depth of dependency, but we have members who developed dependency to very modest doses and after decidedly short-term use (a couple of weeks, or even less).

The risk from following a long taper schedule after short-term use is the development of dependency during the taper where there was little-to-none at the commencement of the taper.

[[Co...]]

13 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[Li...], is there a reason you've tagged Colin, is there something I can help you with?

I advised @[Li...] that, as a matter of policy, withdrawal and taper support via the PM system is contrary to our guidelines. And that she should tag or send me a link.

12 hours ago, [[L...] said:

@[Pa...] I wasn't aware that I couldn't message someone, " Colin said to tag instead.

No problem, @[Li...]. Most newer members are generally not aware of the guidelines in this matter, so I take any opportunity to remind them all (such as this post).

[[Li...]]

41 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I advised @[El...] that, as a matter of policy, withdrawal and taper support via the PM system is contrary to our guidelines. And that she should tag or send me a link.

No problem, @[El...]. Most newer members are generally not aware of the guidelines in this matter, so I take any opportunity to remind them all (such as this post).

Thank you to everyone. I'm not sure how I should taper now. @[Co...] Im not sure if you read the entire thread but I either developed dependency within 3 weeks or I had some issues with the way I was taking the medication( changing dosage all the time).  It's now over 2 months that I've been on the medication due to trying to stabalize. My question still remains as to what rate I should taper? I had very bad symptoms trying to stop and skipping days back in July.  My symptoms now are mostly ruminations and obession about this process. Muscle pain as well which subsides some days. 

[[Li...]]

49 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I advised @[El...] that, as a matter of policy, withdrawal and taper support via the PM system is contrary to our guidelines. And that she should tag or send me a link.

No problem, @[El...]. Most newer members are generally not aware of the guidelines in this matter, so I take any opportunity to remind them all (such as this post).

I'm Lilly. Not Ellie lol. Maybe this is the wrong tag

[[Li...]]

7 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Thank you to everyone. I'm not sure how I should taper now. @[Co...] Im not sure if you read the entire thread but I either developed dependency within 3 weeks or I had some issues with the way I was taking the medication( changing dosage all the time).  It's now over 2 months that I've been on the medication due to trying to stabalize. My question still remains as to what rate I should taper? I had very bad symptoms trying to stop and skipping days back in July.  My symptoms now are mostly ruminations and obession about this process. Muscle pain as well which subsides some days. 

@[Co...] I also wanted to add that I was pretty much non functional a month ago. Thank you for responding. 

[[Li...]]

8 hours ago, [[E...] said:

@[Li...] I do understand your fears!  But, I really highly doubt it will take 3 years to complete your taper.  (After 35 years on a benzo, myself, and starting my taper at 3 mg, I do not think it will even take me 3 years.)  I don't think you will be become more dependent as you taper.  The purpose of a slower, symptom-led taper is to very gradually reduce your physical dependence (not increase it)..and do so in a more comfortable fashion.  

I know it all seems almost impossible at times, but please try to trust in this process.  You are feeling better.  That is a huge accomplishment!  You are getting better!  And you will be successful.

Thank you. I'm just so unclear at the moment. You always make me feel at ease. 

[[Co...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

I'm Lilly. Not Ellie lol. Maybe this is the wrong tag

Ooops. Sorry about that (to both of you). I've edited my post.

[[Co...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

Thank you to everyone. I'm not sure how I should taper now. @[Co...] Im not sure if you read the entire thread but I either developed dependency within 3 weeks or I had some issues with the way I was taking the medication( changing dosage all the time).  It's now over 2 months that I've been on the medication due to trying to stabalize. My question still remains as to what rate I should taper? I had very bad symptoms trying to stop and skipping days back in July.  My symptoms now are mostly ruminations and obession about this process. Muscle pain as well which subsides some days. 

The general advice would still apply - taper at as fast a rate as you can reasonably tolerate. The shorter the period of use, the higher rate of withdrawal you likely will tolerate.

If you find that you cannot stabilise at a particular dose after a reasonable amount of time, the only sensible thing to do (assuming that quitting is your goal) is to push forward. If some of the symptoms are intolerable, you might consider another medication in consultation with your doctor (members might have suggestions).

• What was your dose before you started your taper?
• For how long have you been tapering?
• What is your present dose?
• For how long have you been at this dose?

[[Co...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

@[Co...] I also wanted to add that I was pretty much non functional a month ago. Thank you for responding. 

Acknowledged.

[[Li...]]

16 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

The general advice would still apply - taper at as fast a rate as you can reasonably tolerate. The shorter the period of use, the higher rate of withdrawal you likely will tolerate.

If you find that you cannot stabilise at a particular dose after a reasonable amount of time, the only sensible thing to do (assuming that quitting is your goal) is to push forward. If some of the symptoms are intolerable, you might consider another medication in consultation with your doctor (members might have suggestions).

• What was your dose before you started your taper?
• For how long have you been tapering?
• What is your present dose?
• For how long have you been at this dose?

@[Co...]At the end of June and all of July, I was taking anywhere from 0.5 mg a day up to 2 mg a day, back down again, skipping doses and days. I think maybe one day I took 3mg, I'm not sure. I did this because my nurse practitioner and the prescription bottle said take as needed for anxiety. I was not aware. I had no set dose. I have stabilized throughout the month of August with the help on this site. I thank Pamster and Ellie for this. The entire month of August, I've been on 1.5. Mg a day also dosing 3 times a day at 0.5 every 8 hours. Every day, I am better. I just made a 2.5% cut on Thursday night and seem to be ok.. I'm not sure what happened in July? withdrawal, interdose, or just mixing the doses?  At the rate of 2.5 percent it could take me a year.  I thank you in advance again. I would like to taper faster. I just hope I will be able to handle it considering what happened to me in July.  I also forgot to add Valium was mixed in for about a week the first week of July. I had about 6 pills left of a Valium prescription that sat around my house for a year. I would take it a few times a year. That was 5mg. 

[[Co...]]

Hi @[Li...]

How often do you intend to reduce your dose by 2.5%?

I will add that smaller, more frequent reductions to dose are generally better tolerated than larger, less frequent reductions, even if the overall taper rates are similar.

As for the taper rate you use: again, it is trial and error. And you might find that you need to reduce the taper rate when at a lower dose. (Or maybe not - it varies.)