Ugh - hold on a micro taper. Not what I wanted, but I guess what I need.

[[Os...]]

I wanted to start a thread to track my final two months (as planned anyway). I'm currently on a low dose of Diazepam (1.4mg), and I've decided to slow down the final push. With a jewelry scale, I'm going to do a linear reduction, with a planned end date of September 20th.

I went a little too fast up to this point, and I'm just now starting to get used to this dosage.

Progress so far:

5/29: Cut 30mg Temazepam to 15mg Temazepam
6/6: Crossed to 5mg Diazepam
6/10: 4.5mg Diazepam
6/13: 4mg
6/20: 3mg
6/24: 2.5mg
6/27: 2mg
7/8: 1.9mg
7/9: 1.8mg
7/10: 1.75mg
7/11: 1.5mg
AND THEN IT ALL HIT ME. WENT TOO FAST, BUT REFUSED TO UPDOSE
Started to window on 7/20
7/21: 1.4mg

Today, I begin my microtaper all the way to zero. I'm hoping that the low dose and the slow pace helps these side effects subside.

I've had indigestion for 2.5 weeks, coming and going, but every day at some point. Some nights, I wake up after sleeping for 2 hours and stomach ache doesn't let me go back to sleep.

Biggest symptoms have been insomnia and indigestion.

Minor symptoms have been irritability and back pain.

Here's hoping for a smooth finish to a rough ride.

Edited August 22 by [Os...]

[[pi...]]

I wish you the best on the last part of your journey. One thing I did for stomach issues is to drink ginger tea. I cut up fresh ginger and simmered it and strained it. I would sip on it during thre day, it really helped.

[[Os...]]

Thanks for the encouragement. I will try the ginger.

[[or...]]

Hi @[Os...], I'm doing a much, slower taper, but mine is all I can handle, 5% and it looks like it will be about 2 times per month, instead of 3 times I had planned.

My two wd sxs that affect me most are the irritability and stomach aches after I eat, mainly that is.  None of my usual "fixes" worked so I will try the ginger @[pi...] mentions starting today.  I will do one of two things about my sxs.  First the tea, but then I'll either hold longer, or I will taper just 3% again. I did very well on that amount.

Hoping the very best for both of us, and some windows on these sxs creeping up on us oregonlady

[[Os...]]

It’s so funny, my stomach hurts when I don’t eat for a few hours! It’s crazy how everyone responds differently. I have been trying to find a sleeping pill that helps. I took 100mg trazodone last night and I actually slept 7 hours. But I had taken that before and slept 2 hours. 
I think I had a mental shift last night, and I can share what did it. 
There’s a podcast called Life on Less Meds with Dr. Josef. There’s an episode called Mindset for Insomnia. The guest talks about reframing insomnia as a fear of being awake at night. And during this taper, I’m learning that sleep of long durations is not required for survival. It’s uncomfortable to not sleep well, but it’s not dangerous. And, sleep hygiene practices actually reinforce the feeling of wakefulness fear. So, last night, when I went to bed, I told myself that if I woke up, I would go watch TV or play a game. I actually got a little excited to do that, because I barely watch TV anymore. And I found I wasn’t afraid of waking up. And I went to bed calm! And slept the best I’ve slept in a week or so. 

[[Os...]]

I’m about 1 week into a microtaper, designed to be 2 months long, from 1.4 mg Valium to 0. I’m currently off work for 3 weeks and considering doing a cut down to 1 mg abruptly, and giving myself a chance to stabilize during this time off, before resuming the microtaper when work begins. I have minor symptoms now, but they’re manageable. 
Has anyone tried taking a big step amidst a micro taper when circumstances allow for reduced obligations?

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Os...], I merged your post with your existing thread on this forum since we like to keep taper strategy posts in one place, this helps other members understand your situation better plus you can see all of your responses in one place.

As for your question, since you've started your taper, when do your symptoms hit and when do they typically settle?

[[Os...]]

Thanks, Pamstwer. I had held around 1.4 mg for about a week prior to beginning the micro taper. During that time, I pretty much stabilized. I started the micro taper 5 days ago and started feeling symptoms yesterday. It might have been unrelated, but I think I strained my left quad in physical therapy, and it triggered some anxiety. But, I definitely feel anxiety (super low level) today. 

I’m just wondering if I can tolerate a wider leap right now abs stabilize a bit when work starts for me. I’m a teacher, and it’s real hard to be in front of the classroom when I’m struggling. And I can’t really take time off. If I take a bigger jump now, maybe I can slow the taper down once school starts.

I have an artificial date of 9/20/24 to be my jump at zero. Maybe I should remove that hard date and let my symptoms be my guide and be done when I’m done.

I just can’t predict how I’ll feel when I get to 0.5 mg and below. Will I start to feel “clean” after 0.5 mg? People say that the drug isn’t going to be doing much at that level, and it’s mainly a placebo. But, I know everyone’s different. 
I’d really appreciate some thoughts on these questions.

i have found that there a lot of abandoned threads about the end of a taper. Maybe that’s because a lot of people recover well and stop coming to the forums. Oddly, abandoned threads give me more hope that pretty much anything. It just makes it hard to get opinions of where I’m headed.

I’ve only been on benzos since late April of this year, but it’s been enough to have issues withdrawing.

[[Pa...]]

First, I agree @[Os...] that getting rid of your taper end date now is a good idea, you don't need the pressure.  

I'm concerned about doing that big reduction, I've seen members who use Valium get hit with symptoms up to 3 weeks after a reduction, what if yours are still going strong when its time to go back to work?

With your job, I'd plan on going very slowly, I can't imagine having to stand in front of a classroom, I had to give a speech when I was recovering and shook like a leaf.  We just can't predict how its going to go, I wouldn't take the chance of being non functional when you go back to work.

Most say tapers get more difficult as the dose gets lower, and your dose isn't high enough in my opinion to allow you to make larger cuts and get away with them.  What I mean is, some high dosage users can make large reductions in the beginning, I don't believe yours is in that same category. 

[[Ma...]]

0.5 (or even 1) for Diazepam is an appropriate jumping dose.  That is a very sub therapeutic dose to continue tapering from. 

[[Pa...]]

10 hours ago, [[M...] said:

0.5 (or even 1) for Diazepam is an appropriate jumping dose.  That is a very sub therapeutic dose to continue tapering from. 

This is true, Professor Ashton had her patients jump at 1 and many of our members jump at .5.  What does your gut tell you @[Os...], do you feel this could be it, I don't want to discourage you if you feel you're ready.  I just kept thinking about standing in front of a classroom and probably brought my own discomfort into the discussion.  You're amazing by the way to be able to teach in your condition. 

[[Os...]]

Well, I have decided not to take a bigger cut down to 1 right now. My impatience sometimes gets to me. My sxs are subsiding, but I should take a more measured approach. As I've seen countless times in posts on this forum, there's no point in suffering needlessly. There's enough suffering as it is.

Yesterday, I had a clear, beautiful window. With the exception of a weak/jelly right leg, I had no sxs for half of the day. That gave me so much hope, because it was the best one since I began the taper. I had been feeling like maybe I made a mistake and wasn't sure what to do. But, yesterday, my mood was fantastic, and I was able to engage with my family really well (without yelling at my four young children!).

As of right now, I'm planning on going all the way to zero on the taper. I just bought a pill crusher, and want to see how that works for me, going to zero. It's possible that I may decide to jump when I reach 0.5, but I don't plan on jumping at 1.

If I do jump at 0.5, I will hold there until I stabilize.

@[Pa...] Sometimes I do feel ready to jump, but I know it's my impatience, and not actually at the right point. My psychiatrist, who is able to be supportive of my plan, keeps telling me to try every other day, but I am not going to do that. That might work with AD, but I've read numerous times on here that that is not advisable.

One day at a time, right?

@[Ma...] I know I can jump from 0.5, but wouldn't it be easier on my system to go all the way? Do people do that?

[[Ma...]]

2 hours ago, [[O...] said:

@[Ma...] I know I can jump from 0.5, but wouldn't it be easier on my system to go all the way? Do people do that?

It’s totally reasonable to taper all the way to 0 if you are most comfortable with that.  If you do so though, I’d just caution about holding on a really low dose (less than .5) and trying to “stabilize” because it’s so subtherapeutic at that point.  At that level of drug, for most people, it’s probably best to jump so they do not unnecessarily prolong their taper.  

[[Os...]]

@[Ma...] Thanks for the note. Just so I understand, perhaps I should just jump the day I hit 0.5, or would you recommend that I hold for a week or two?

[[Ma...]]

41 minutes ago, [[O...] said:

@[Ma...] Thanks for the note. Just so I understand, perhaps I should just jump the day I hit 0.5, or would you recommend that I hold for a week or two?

If I were to jump at 0.5, I would want to get there first and then hold for a couple weeks before jumping. 

[[Os...]]

Just a short update. Tomorrow, I will hit 1 mg (tonight my last at 1.1mg). Since beginning the microtaper, my life has felt gradually more normal than it has in months. Side effects are still present, but much more manageable. I can't say they'll stay this way, but right now...

Nearly gone:
Anxiety

Much better, but still present:
Indigestion
Insomnia (really helped by Trazadone)

Still here, but minor improvement:
Tingling in legs, especially at night. They go away after a while and I've been able to sleep a bit.

I hopeful that the microtaper will continue to be positive. I'm tapering linearly, so I'll be removing more and more % each day. But, I'm also hopeful that as the dosage gets lower, it'll get closer to being removed by liver more and more.

Side note:
I just had a hospital sleep study done. No sleep apnea and no concerning restless leg. Restless leg is what got me started on this damn benzo journey. I'm hopeful that once the diazepam is out of my system, it doesn't get real bad again. But, we'll see. I'm trying to remain positive and hopeful.

 

[[Pa...]]

I love your update @[Os...], and its wonderful to hear you aren’t suffering with restless leg right now, I didn’t realize it was the reason you were placed on the medication.  I hope it doesn’t come back but I hear there are other medications that may help if it does.

I’m so happy you’ve been able to continue working, I wish everyone could. 

[[Os...]]

With a wife and 4 kids, I have no choice. I have had to power through. 

[[Os...]]

Update: I had slept really well the previous night, getting nearly 8 hours, with only a couple of wake ups. I was feeling good, and took my 2 oldest girls to see a movie at the theatre (which is not always easy for me with restless leg issues), but I didn't have bad leg symptoms yesterday.

Then, my wife and I found a house online that we're interested in buying, and talked about it late into the evening. So, I went to be a little wired about that. Then, as I was starting to fall asleep, my left hamstring cramped up. A horrible night of sleep. My leg woke me up all night long. And, then, I started to freak out about it (although I really tried to remain calm), and I then started to wake up with adrenaline/cortisol surges and stomach clenching. I got up at 4:30a and took an epsom salt bath, which helped me to calm down a bit.

All in all, I probably slept 2 hours, but in 5 minute spurts the whole night. I don't feel completely horrible today, so I know I slept a little bit, but it was not especially restful.

What I'm learning is that waves come. And, for me, they come triggered by external factors. I have to remind myself that even though last night and today are challenging, it doesn't mean that tomorrow will be bad or worse. My last wave lasted a day, and then the next day I was fine. It's hard to remember that in the waves.

When I get a wave, I tend to second-guess everything. Should I hold on the taper? Is this tolerable? Should I simply continue? Do I want to delay this process by holding?

These are the questions that race in my mind at 3:00am. 

Overall, I think I'm doing ok. But whenever I get a new physical symptom, it makes me nervous. And then, I come on this forum and search the symptom, and find that many others have experienced the same thing, and that is goes away. People get odd muscle pains, cramps, tingling, nerve sensations, and I've been experiencing all of that. 

I'm really grateful that this forum exists. I wish I would have found it at the beginning of my benzo journey. I had a chance to stop taking Valium after 10 days and be done, but I had some anxiety after, and I went to my doctor and got put on Tamazepam for sleep. And that really messed me up. And then I was on that for long enough for my neurologist to warn me about seizures, and then switched back to Valium for a taper. And here I am.

Thanks for all your words, friends. One day at a time.

[[Pa...]]

Oh man @[Os...], I hate the thoughts that occur at 3:00 a.m., everything is so bleak!  You're amazing to think of taking a bath with Epsom salts, good for you!  

I'm glad you can use us to find your symptoms and grateful it helps you to know you're going to be okay.  I was telling another member today about what great muscle relaxers benzodiazepines are, until you take them away, then everything hurts, twitches, burns or stings!

We tell members to try to avoid stress while going through this but we can't avoid life and life means we sometimes have to deal with stress when we're the least prepared to handle it.  Talking with your wife about buying a new home should be something to get excited about, but the least provocation has us succumbing to waves.  At least you know what's happening, what the source of your wave is and you can hopefully keep using your tools to get through it.  Life doesn't stop just because we're tapering. 

 

[[Os...]]

Just thought I would give an update. An old symptom returned the other night. About a month ago, I got an upset stomach that lasted a few weeks before subsiding. Well, it's back. I can tolerate it and can eat. In fact, I feel tons better when I eat. But, it wakes me up at night. I was able to get back to sleep a few times though.

I've been working with a sleep specialist, and I'm on a sleep restriction protocol. I can only sleep between 11:30 and 6am. I'm on day 4. I take Trazodone at night, with some supplements (melatonin, apigenin, CBD, CBN, kava, passion flower), and my decreasing dose of valium (currently at 0.80). The first night, I slept for maybe 45 minutes, because I've developed a nerve buzzing in my left leg. It doesn't happen most nights, but that night it did, and when it happens, I can't ignore it and it keeps me awake. The second night, though I slept the entire 6.5 hours, only waking of briefly a couple of times. Overall, this practice seems to be helping me reach drowsiness prior to taking my meds/supplements at night, which I haven't felt a long time, so that's a good feeling.

My current symptoms:

- Stomach/GI (bloating)
- Tingly legs (minor, but present)
- Nerve buzzing left leg
- Back pain, leg pain (caused by activity, made worse by withdrawal)
- Irritability (comes and goes)
- Insomnia (seems to be improving, Trazodone/supplements definitely help me)
- Bladder discomfort (I have urine sediment, I don't think this is related to benzo)

I also decided to chart my benzo dosage. Note, the peak, up to 15mg and then 7.5 mg is Temazepam (15, then 30, then back to 15mg). Cut and hold, then switched to micro taper on 7/23.

I oscillate every few days on if I should do a hold for a few days. My symptoms are probably way better because I'm microtapering, but it still sucks. I wasn't on valium for that long, but it definitely has had an effect on me. I'm really hoping that this method of tapering will make my jump easier. Does anyone have any positive takes on that? I'm really not seeking any horror stories.

Oh boy, I look at the chart and I see the 4 days after my first valium stint, when I stopped, got panic attacks, and then was prescribed Temazepam for sleep. If only I could tell myself back then "these panic attacks are temporary, just suck it up and get through it". I'm sure I would be back to myself by now. Certainly better than now, after only 10 days of use. Alas, best to move forward, not dwell.

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Os...], it sounds like benzo belly is making your life miserable, that's the catch all we use for anything digestive related.  

I'm surprised you're seeing positive results with the sleep restriction, most members who have done sleep studies while tapering or recovering from benzodiazepines find them pointless but I'm glad to hear its helping you. 

What I've observed about jumping is what you experience on the way down is pretty much what you'll see when you jump, with a bit more intensity during the acute phase.  As for holding, it can be an effective tool for daily tapers when the symptoms seem to stack up on one another.

[[Os...]]

Update:

For the first time since I began the microtaper nearly a month ago, I have decided to hold. I'm a little demoralized, but I know deep down I need to listen to my symptoms and not follow an arbitrary plan. I went back to work full time this week, and the activity level has triggered vertigo. It's not dangerous vertigo, where I can't drive or walk or anything, but it's bad enough to want to slow down. 

I'm currently holding at 0.73 mg of valium. I was really hoping that at this level, the amount of drug in my system would be negligible, and I could coast down to 0. I'm now realizing that was naive. I need to follow the symptoms.

This wave has been the hardest one. I can handle the anxiety, I can even handle the insomnia, which thankfully I don't have right now. But it's the spinning world that is doing me in.

I will resume the taper once I stabilize. And, if I don't stabilize, I'll resume anyway in a week or two.

Could use some support.

[[Ct...]]

You’re so wise to hold right now, @[Os...]. With a microtaper, the small cuts can accumulate and hit all at once. You are so close to the end. It must be hard, but patience is the best way to success.

[[Os...]]

Thank you @[Ct...]. I'm trying to stay positive, but it's hard today.