Waves. Gradual or sudden coming on and leaving? Is there a definitive peak and when is it?

[[Tr...]]

Curious, do your waves come on suddenly, gradually, and how does it change into a window? Does it peak? When is the peak of the wave- right before the wave leaves and changes into a window, or right at the start or middle of the wave? 

I've had both gradual and sudden, and have peaks, sometimes leading right into window, and other times right from the window. 

[[Cr...]]

In addition to what I have experienced, I have witnessed people describe their windows/waves in almost every possible configuration.

Gradually or suddenly coming on. Gradually or suddenly fading away. A steady intensity throughout the duration of a wave. A fluctuation of intensity during the wave.

I had bad waves that practically started overnight and other ones (like my worst) that felt like it was slowly building up over many weeks/months until it reached a horrible apex.

The only thing consistent about withdrawal is it's inconsistency. 

[[vo...]]

6 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

In addition to what I have experienced, I have witnessed people describe their windows/waves in almost every possible configuration.

Gradually or suddenly coming on. Gradually or suddenly fading away. A steady intensity throughout the duration of a wave. A fluctuation of intensity during the wave.

I had bad waves that practically started overnight and other ones (like my worst) that felt like it was slowly building up over many weeks/months until it reached a horrible apex.

The only thing consistent about withdrawal is it's inconsistency. 

@[Cr...] I don't know that I've ever gotten a window since I quit xanax 7/30/23. The only time my symptoms subside is when I dose with ambien during the day or at night. Now that I'm only taking 2.5 at night and due for a small cut this coming Friday, Is it possible I won't see a window until I'm completely off the ambien?

[[Cr...]]

27 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

@[Cr...] I don't know that I've ever gotten a window since I quit xanax 7/30/23. The only time my symptoms subside is when I dose with ambien during the day or at night. Now that I'm only taking 2.5 at night and due for a small cut this coming Friday, Is it possible I won't see a window until I'm completely off the ambien?

That is a very good possibility. Ambien cessation may be the final piece in the puzzle. Keep in mind that there is no definitive agreement on what fully constitutes a window (at least to what I am aware).

To some people, it means practically 100% cessation of all negative symptoms. To others, it could be just a decrease in the worst symptoms. For the latter, how would one tell the difference between a window and still being in a wave but it's intensity has decreased?

A window can mean different things to different people. Looking back, I don't think I had any real windows, just periods of time where I didn't feel 'as awful'. When you are in a extremely horrible wave, I imagine that any relief (no matter how small) could feel like a window. Just the wave finally coming to an end could cause a sense of euphoria and happiness. Window? Or relief?

[[vo...]]

5 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

That is a very good possibility. Ambien cessation may be the final piece in the puzzle. Keep in mind that there is no definitive agreement on what fully constitutes a window (at least to what I am aware).

To some people, it means practically 100% cessation of all negative symptoms. To others, it could be just a decrease in the worst symptoms. For the latter, how would one tell the difference between a window and still being in a wave but it's intensity has decreased?

A window can mean different things to different people. Looking back, I don't think I had any real windows, just periods of time where I didn't feel 'as awful'. When you are in a extremely horrible wave, I imagine that any relief (no matter how small) could feel like a window. Just the wave finally coming to an end could cause a sense of euphoria and happiness. Window? Or relief?

@[Cr...]  That helps tremendously. I tend to try to ignore how bad the symptoms are rather than trying to "measure" them. I'm out of "emotions" to use for the day, so thank you!

[[...]]

9 hours ago, [[T...] said:

Curious, do your waves come on suddenly, gradually, and how does it change into a window? Does it peak? When is the peak of the wave- right before the wave leaves and changes into a window, or right at the start or middle of the wave? 

I've had both gradual and sudden, and have peaks, sometimes leading right into window, and other times right from the window. 

To me, windows are periods of time where symptoms are less.  In the peak of my withdrawal, these may have been moments where I felt just a little less miserable.  Over time, Windows became more profound and of longer duration.  I haven't had any windows yet where I've been completely symptom free but it gets closer to this as time goes on.  Waves are the exact opposite of this for me.  And they are soul crushingly painful.  I've had them come on slowly over days and have had them come on overnight.  They unfortunately can be very intense, almost intense today as they were the first few months of withdrawal.

It's an awful experience.  I pray for the day this withdrawal is over and I can get my life back.

[[vo...]]

Edited July 25 by [vo...]
I didn't like what I wrote

[[vo...]]

Need to rewrite my comment

Edited July 25 by [vo...]
I didn't like what I wrote

[[Bu...]]

13 hours ago, [[T...] said:

Curious, do your waves come on suddenly, gradually, and how does it change into a window? Does it peak? When is the peak of the wave- right before the wave leaves and changes into a window, or right at the start or middle of the wave? 

I've had both gradual and sudden, and have peaks, sometimes leading right into window, and other times right from the window. 

I definitely get windows and waves hugely unpredictably. I think the unpredictability element is awful but then I obviously enjoy the windows 

[[Tr...]]

Thanks everyone. I never had a full window- just many less symptoms and even then they were so mild I barely noticed for long periods of time until these last two months and especially last week where it's the wave of all waves. 

[[Ca...]]

In me the waves slowly build up over weeks and fluctuate until they reach a peak that might last 2 to 3 weeks at the end of it... until it gets into a set of only windows again where I feel so close to final healing. A set of windows usually lasts not more than 3 weeks altogether in me until this window wave thing starts off again that intensifies over a couple weeks again. While it peaks I only have short semi windows if any at all! Usually my sets of waves (from mild at the beginning severe at the end) lasts 10 weeks. Acute withdrawal also lasted 10 weeks for me. Wonder if it has anything to do with it... only this time I am in a huge setback that lasts for more than 3 months now where I don't feel like myself at all again. As if back to acute. It was caused by getting off methylphenidate that I took for 9 years... I was on the benzo (Klonopin) only for a couple of months... not even a year! I am now longer sick with BIND than I was on the stuff! (DETOX) That is so sad ...just so unbelievable! I am 15 and a half months off! This stuff should get a change in the brand's name! KLONOPOISON!

Edited July 25 by [Ca...]

[[Tr...]]

On 25/07/2024 at 12:45, [[C...] said:

In me the waves slowly build up over weeks and fluctuate until they reach a peak that might last 2 to 3 weeks at the end of it... until it gets into a set of only windows again where I feel so close to final healing. A set of windows usually lasts not more than 3 weeks altogether in me until this window wave thing starts off again that intensifies over a couple weeks again. While it peaks I only have short semi windows if any at all! Usually my sets of waves (from mild at the beginning severe at the end) lasts 10 weeks. Acute withdrawal also lasted 10 weeks for me. Wonder if it has anything to do with it... only this time I am in a huge setback that lasts for more than 3 months now where I don't feel like myself at all again. As if back to acute. It was caused by getting off methylphenidate that I took for 9 years... I was on the benzo (Klonopin) only for a couple of months... not even a year! I am now longer sick with BIND than I was on the stuff! (DETOX) That is so sad ...just so unbelievable! I am 15 and a half months off! This stuff should get a change in the brand's name! KLONOPOISON!

Your first line is exactly what I'm dealing with now. I had the same thing in 2022, but many of my waves are just sudden and end suddenly too. 15 months off, while a long time to suffer, is early enough. If you're getting good windows now, you will turn a corner and heal sooner than later. I was polydrugged (CT ADHD stimulants too, mirtazapine), kindled (second time tapering, plenty of alcohol in my youth), tapered a beta blocker with it's own hell, etc and it took about 3 years to really feel significantly better. Klonopoison is right!