Desperate because of Valium Chaos and polydrugging Nightmare

July 26

Did you reached Tolerance too with klonopin?

July 26

Thank you so much for your Support ,💓 i feel already a Bit better with 45 mg Valium. How do you make this tiny Cuts Like 0,25 mg?

July 27

10 hours ago, [[H...] said:

Thank you so much for your Support ,💓 i feel already a Bit better with 45 mg Valium. How do you make this tiny Cuts Like 0,25 mg?

This is really great news Hope! Awesome! I am pretty sure I reached tolerance with Klonopin at some point in 2017...my behavior became so erratic and I honestly thought it was my mental illness...it could have been, there is no way to know for sure. But I am suspicious that many of my problems had much to do with the Klonopin and being misdiagnosed.

Being cold turkeyed off the Klonopin was complete agony. I waited years to heal, and yes I was improved but never did completely heal. There were multiple factors in my situation...I was in a narcissistic relationship, trying to use natural medicine with a NMD, and my therapist was tying me into knots. I now am getting well, doing things my way, listening to what my body needs. Thanks to God the chains have been broken from the narcissist. There are some legal problems because of financial abuse which is so stressful, but it is only short term. Life is getting better and brighter each day. I am having windows of health now, and they are beautiful.

Okay so the tapering question...first, you might want to consider staying stable on the 45mg for a period of time. Once you are confident you are stable, have educated yourself, and have made a sound decision that you want to taper, there are many ways to do it. I am not quite sure when or if you will be ready to do it. It is a large commitment...but your body will tell you when. And when you are ready, we are all here for you!

How do I do it...well I have a scale and I weigh my tablet to the mg, not the dose, the weight. I use a simple mathematical conversion to determine the weight of the tablet I need to be at the new dose that I choose.

For example:

4.25mg x 0.179g/5.0mg

Dose required x Weight of Tablet/Dose of Tablet = Weight needed of tablet

I am doing a micro taper by dry cutting the tablets. I use a nail file/emery board to file off the tablet to get the weight I need. I weigh my tablet daily and calculate daily, some people just weigh a bunch and take the average...for me there is too much variation in the weight of each tablet and I am not comfortable doing that. I typically will file off about 1-2% per week of my current dose. But, I am at 9.25mg per day, and it gets difficult at times. I record it in a notebook these days, and note when symptoms get overwhelming so I know what not to do next time.

So it seems the lower I get the more impactful the decreases are for me. I do not remember what the Ashton Manual recommends, you must read it, there is a table in the manual for guidance. For me Ashton's way was too fast and I was out of my mind. I guess I would recommend starting a low cut in your dose, and then see if you can handle faster. I have heard of some people doing 3% per month, for me that is about my average because when symptoms get bad I have to hold until I stabilize again. There is no going back up, it is just not an option---have to wait it out. I have held for several weeks in the past.

So being at 45mg, you would have to determine what percent you want to decrease and we can help you with the math if you need it. I do not know what will work for you without rocking the boat per se. I can tell you, there is no rush to taper off quickly. Tolerance is a scary thing yes, but it is really good news you are responding to the 45mg daily dose. Now, you just have to not increase your dose if things get bad again, let your body balance out. That is one piece of advice I can give you with confidence, do not jump around with the dosing, you have to stay consistent. It just confuses your nervous system and makes it harder for your body to go into balance.

I would like the moderators to make their recommendations on this, but if I were going through what you are, I would definitely stabilize for a bit of time before beginning a taper and I would prepare myself the best I could to be ready in case I am symptomatic. It will be a disaster if you are not educated on the tapering and what to expect. But do not get scared, because many people can taper off with little to no problems. It is just about education and learning some good coping skills. Hang in there, stay in prayer and you will be guided.

Love,

Fierce

July 27

The worst Thing is, i feel better on 45 mg, but i can't sleep!!!

3 weeks ago i could sleep with 45 mg.

Don't know what to do

@[...]Klaviermädchen

@[...]Wilde Dame

July 27

4 hours ago, [[H...] said:

The worst Thing is, i feel better on 45 mg, but i can't sleep!!!

3 weeks ago i could sleep with 45 mg.

Don't know what to do

@[...]Klaviermädchen

@[...]Wilde Dame

Insomnia is a withdrawal symptom that is listed on every informative withdrawal literature I have come across. I suffered from insomnia after the cold turkey. I know it is horrible.

There may be a thread on here about how to help remedy that…I think keeping a routine each day is very important no matter how awful you feel. Say you want to sleep at 9pm, try everything you can to start telling yourself each day it is time for sleep. Start an hour before bed time, some ideas might be to put on a diffuser with lavender essential oil, take a warm bath or shower, make sure your bed is comfortable, put on pajamas, listen to some calming music…and keep doing it day after day no matter what. Eventually your body and mind will know it’s time for sleep, and you will start to sleep.

Right now the paradox for me, I could sleep day and night I am exhausted. I think my body has just had enough of bad treatment and trauma for the past I would say decade…I am recovering slowly so I just have to give my body what it needs.

However, as painful as it was I forced myself to practice YOGA several times per week. Even if just for a few minutes…sometimes all I could do was sit in child pose and cry. Now I always feel better after an hour of practice, But it took time to work up to that. My nerves would burn, I would have to go to sleep for an hour after a class…I just knew I had to get my muscle strength back. I was so weak and broken down. I feel like maybe you might want to consider incorporating a few minutes of walking per day with some nice music. Or a gentle YOGA practice following a video on youtube. You may already be doing these things…

Chemical intervention is not the only answer sadly and I am so glad you are feeling a bit better. You will sleep, just eat well and take care of yourself. Give it time. Before you know it you are going to come on benzo buddies and type a response saying you have slept. Try to be patient with yourself and stay as calm as you can.

Love,

Fierce

July 27

How long did your insomnia Last? After my CT from Prozac Mine lasted for 2,5 jears.

It was the greatest Gift ever in my Life when my sleep came Back. And they took it away with this rapid Cut from 30 to 16 mg. I'm scared im sitting now on 45 mg which is Maybe still tolerance and can't stabilize and then i have jears to taper.

July 27

3 hours ago, [[F...] said:

Insomnia is a withdrawal symptom that is listed on every informative withdrawal literature I have come across. I suffered from insomnia after the cold turkey. I know it is horrible.

There may be a thread on here about how to help remedy that…I think keeping a routine each day is very important no matter how awful you feel. Say you want to sleep at 9pm, try everything you can to start telling yourself each day it is time for sleep. Start an hour before bed time, some ideas might be to put on a diffuser with lavender essential oil, take a warm bath or shower, make sure your bed is comfortable, put on pajamas, listen to some calming music…and keep doing it day after day no matter what. Eventually your body and mind will know it’s time for sleep, and you will start to sleep.

Right now the paradox for me, I could sleep day and night I am exhausted. I think my body has just had enough of bad treatment and trauma for the past I would say decade…I am recovering slowly so I just have to give my body what it needs.

However, as painful as it was I forced myself to practice YOGA several times per week. Even if just for a few minutes…sometimes all I could do was sit in child pose and cry. Now I always feel better after an hour of practice, But it took time to work up to that. My nerves would burn, I would have to go to sleep for an hour after a class…I just knew I had to get my muscle strength back. I was so weak and broken down. I feel like maybe you might want to consider incorporating a few minutes of walking per day with some nice music. Or a gentle YOGA practice following a video on youtube. You may already be doing these things…

Chemical intervention is not the only answer sadly and I am so glad you are feeling a bit better. You will sleep, just eat well and take care of yourself. Give it time. Before you know it you are going to come on benzo buddies and type a response saying you have slept. Try to be patient with yourself and stay as calm as you can.

Love,

Fierce

@[Fi...] I love your attitude! :smitten: My sleep is just now starting to come back after 13 mos. of insomnia in withdrawal. I sincerely believe it's because for the first time in my life I'm eating healthy, no processed food and working out as hard as I can at the gym doing all kind of different things there. I still have withdrawal symptoms but for some reason my mind and body are allowing me to work out in the morning. I knew I would eventually sleep again, but like everyone else, I didn't know when. It also helps tremendously with my anxiety, both of which have been proven to help reduce anxiety.

Edited July 27 by [vo...]

July 28

I am looking for advice on my taper. I have been microtapering since February 2022. I started at 40 mg of valium which was more than I was taking because I was also taking a .5 Klonapin and tried to convert per Ashton to a valium dose that would cover the valium too. I was tapering at 1.37 MCT a month. I was sick from the start. As it got worse I reduced the taper to one mg MCT per month. I got down to 12.2 and could not get out of bed and after speaking with a benzo coach and Dr. Halligan updosed to 14 mg and held for two months. Then I started the 1 mg taper again. I was never functional. I am now down to 12.5 and rarely leave the house, sleep most of the day, stay up until after two am and walk about 7k steps a day late in the day. I am getting worse. I used to feel better around 8 pm but that has stopped.

I don't know if it is best to pause for a week, keep on going or drop the taper rate. The rate is currently 7.68. Currently I drop two mgs every 60 days but I could go to dropping two mgs every 90 days.

I am feeling more and more apathetic and depressed and exhausted.

I am also on 175 mg of trazedone for sleep which I take one emory board slice off every week and subutec ten mgs daily.I am 69 and very kindled.

I plan on taking 3 days off when I get to 12. At one mg a month, 12-11 would be 8.33 taper rate.

Any thoughts? Thank you

July 28

11 hours ago, [[H...] said:

How long did your insomnia Last? After my CT from Prozac Mine lasted for 2,5 jears.

It was the greatest Gift ever in my Life when my sleep came Back. And they took it away with this rapid Cut from 30 to 16 mg. I'm scared im sitting now on 45 mg which is Maybe still tolerance and can't stabilize and then i have jears to taper.

I know how hard it is to have a positive mindset right now, especially when it is not your fault, and the unknown is super scary. If you can, try your best not to fill your mind with the "what ifs." They can really trick you and cause unnecessary stress and anxiety. It seems you are doing better at 45mg as you have mentioned, let's accept that for today. You are feeling better, you can, and will stabilize. Tolerance is not for you to worry about right now. Just get comfortable where you are, do not be concerned about the actual number of milligrams you are taking, trust how you are feeling. The number can trick me all the time, if I weigh my tablet and it is off by the slightest bit, I tell myself I am going to go into withdrawals and I get myself so upset and start the "What ifs." You are okay, we are okay, keep reminding yourself of that even if you feel symptoms...it is the drug, it is not you...

I suffered miserably with insomnia after the cold turkey in August 2019, then again I was awake for several days straight after the Ativan injection. I thought I could crawl out of my skin I cannot even explain the agony...so I have so much empathy for what you are experiencing. After my CT from Klonopin I went about 2 weeks without sleep, but I was on a very high amount of Zoloft at the same time, I had to taper that rather quickly and then I was able to sleep a little, an hour here or there...then a few hours...now I can sleep 8 straight no problem, but I am taking 9.25mg of Valium daily, 5mg at night.

July 28

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

I am looking for advice on my taper. I have been microtapering since February 2022. I started at 40 mg of valium which was more than I was taking because I was also taking a .5 Klonapin and tried to convert per Ashton to a valium dose that would cover the valium too. I was tapering at 1.37 MCT a month. I was sick from the start. As it got worse I reduced the taper to one mg MCT per month. I got down to 12.2 and could not get out of bed and after speaking with a benzo coach and Dr. Halligan updosed to 14 mg and held for two months. Then I started the 1 mg taper again. I was never functional. I am now down to 12.5 and rarely leave the house, sleep most of the day, stay up until after two am and walk about 7k steps a day late in the day. I am getting worse. I used to feel better around 8 pm but that has stopped.

I don't know if it is best to pause for a week, keep on going or drop the taper rate. The rate is currently 7.68. Currently I drop two mgs every 60 days but I could go to dropping two mgs every 90 days.

I am feeling more and more apathetic and depressed and exhausted.

I am also on 175 mg of trazedone for sleep which I take one emory board slice off every week and subutec ten mgs daily.I am 69 and very kindled.

I plan on taking 3 days off when I get to 12. At one mg a month, 12-11 would be 8.33 taper rate.

Any thoughts? Thank you

Carol,

It seems like you have a lot going on...I too had a consult with Dr. Halligan and she was super helpful. I am not certain, but typically when symptoms become overwhelming I believe most people hold until strong enough to taper again. I know that is what I have had to do for the past year. I have to listen to my body and go at the rate it tells me to. I was tapering another medicine Gabapentin to a lower dose (not cessation) at the same time at one point because I was becoming very spacey, forgetful...I had no choice, I was over medicated. Once I got my afternoon dose decreased to 100mg opposed to 300mg I felt better and more alert. I still am unable to tolerate the heat at all I become very sick. Palpitations and shaking, it is awful. But I am sorry, I want to try to give you feedback on your situation.

I wish I had the cognitive ability to give you more, I am having a little trouble following your post, please forgive me. My brain is really bad today. I can emphasize on being sick from the beginning of the taper, it seems endless I know. But this will all be behind us soon. For now, if no one responds to you, if you could put your inquiries line by line and maybe I can respond a bit better that way. Again, forgive my cognitive impairments...I used to be a science teacher. Now this...but, it is what God has given me. I had to learn many lessons, and I still am.

If I understand correctly, you updated to 14mg, stabilized then started to taper at the same rate of 1mg per month using a daily micro taper? There was a period of time I could only taper 0.5mg of Valium per month. I had to hold the symptoms were too uncomfortable. I am not sure what the 7.68 and 8.33 taper rate means...? I am unfamiliar with that terminology. Do you mind explaining that to me?

I am so sorry you feel badly, I do too and it is just not fun at all. I have been dysfunctional for way too long, I understand your frustration. I think that is why it is best to maybe consider holding until you feel a but better with both medications. I know I have heard multiple opinions on tapering one medication at a time or both at the same time. Both of the reasoning behind both approaches make sense to me, so I do not know what the right answer is.

From your post, it seems to me that there is way too much going on too fast...that is just a general observation. When I was in a similar situation I just held on tight and did not touch anything...I cried, suffered, starved, shook, had night terrors, lack of sleep, intense fear...just absolute misery...but it passed and I stabilized a bit more each week as I held. How did all that happen? Well, I dropped my Valium dose by 0.25mg and went into a tailspin. This was before I was using a scale. It took me two months before I could taper again, and I did a micro taper. I basically just keep going until a feel symptoms then I hold. I hope this helps, I know you will feel better soon.

Love,

Fierce

July 28

10 hours ago, [[v...] said:

@[Fi...] I love your attitude! My sleep is just now starting to come back after 13 mos. of insomnia in withdrawal. I sincerely believe it's because for the first time in my life I'm eating healthy, no processed food and working out as hard as I can at the gym doing all kind of different things there. I still have withdrawal symptoms but for some reason my mind and body are allowing me to work out in the morning. I knew I would eventually sleep again, but like everyone else, I didn't know when. It also helps tremendously with my anxiety, both of which have been proven to help reduce anxiety.

Voluntas,

Food is medicine for sure. Most processed food is absolutely intolerable for me. I was at a church bbq today and literally had like 3 spoonfuls of jello with strawberries and I am sick sick sick, I ate some bean salad (probably from canned conventional) and chicken (full of I have no idea what). I feel like complete crap. I thought, well, a little will be okay. NOPE NOPE NOPE. I ate like red dye #45 (not sure this is a thing lol) and I have no idea but for me it was like consuming poison. I have to be so careful and I know my body loves me for being that way. I will bring my own food from now on and indicate I have severe sensitivities so I do not offend anyone. I have no problem being open about it. I even ate before I went to make sure I would be satisfied but I was super hungry. Gosh, anyway. I am so happy for you staying away from processed foods! I admit I do consume brown rice pasta or chickpea pasta (only with one ingredient) and I like to have that with shrimp, garlic, and oil. I cannot do red sauce at all, yet organic fresh tomato is fine. Go figure...none of this makes sense. The pasta I have about 1/3 of a cup so not too much. Oh, I also treat myself to the Hu chocolate chips (maximum 7 a day) and organic Good Pops. I have difficulty with hypoglycemia so need some sugar. The fruit juice ice pops and the date sweetened chocolate seem to do the trick...ohhhhh I have to do the prune juice thing these days. The Valium destroyed my GI I could not take it another day. So, I have a few sips in the morning and it does the trick. I used to buy organic prunes, but it just is not the same as the juice for me...so I am about 80/20 clean diet right now. Goal is to get to 90/10.

Working out at the gym is super! I am more of an at home YOGi. I just added in a little Tai Chi two days a week. My doctor's office is offering it through a grant on Zoom so I figured why not. I also take equine therapy lessons, but it is a lot of work, grooming, tacking, riding...plus my horse is challenging so he makes me really work my brain. Probably really great Occupation Therapy, making everything work together. It definitely has had to increase my processing time. There is a lot to think about to stay safe.

It seems like you are going to be in great shape for sure! Keep up the great work! You are an inspiration! I will get back to the gym one of these days...

Love,

Fierce

July 28

Thanks Fierce..those numbers you questioned are what the taper rate would be if i stay at one mg a month for the rest of the 13 to 12 rate and what it would be if I use one mg a month to go from 12 to 11.

I know you don't feel well but you can still take equine therapy and get out of the house. That's something!!

July 29

20 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Thanks Fierce..those numbers you questioned are what the taper rate would be if i stay at one mg a month for the rest of the 13 to 12 rate and what it would be if I use one mg a month to go from 12 to 11.

I know you don't feel well but you can still take equine therapy and get out of the house. That's something!!

Yes I get out daily, I live in a small apartment and I always feel much better if I am forcing myself to go out and do things...so I try daily to commit to at least one activity that is not in my apartment.

Is the rate a percentage of your dose...I am sorry I am still confused...I am at 9.25mg per day and typically taper anywhere between 3-5% per month and sometimes none at all if I am holding. The good news is that even though when I lower the dose I feel really crappy I always feel so much better after at the lower dose. I am not sure but I think my body actually responds to the Valium at the lower dose...maybe another paradox. I am starting to gain more confidence, little by little things are getting better. The equine therapy has been so great for getting my brain to work again. It is definitely occupational therapy for sure. I have to do so many things at once, think ahead, plus all the equipment involved with tacking the horse, the way you have to lead them for safety, the cues they need to stop go, trot, turn etc...back up...plus all the motion. I would leave so sick sometimes, still do...but I always have a better mood so I am able to cope with the physical stuff much better.

I really hope you a find some comfort soon, I know that slow and steady is working well for me. I used to be so anxious and feel like cessation was the only way for me to heal but that is not proving to be true so I am just kind of going with what my body and mind are telling me...I wish I was off yesterday, but for me I have to be patient with myself, which is so difficult. I would like to throw away the bottles and just be done---I may be on a dose forever I have no idea...I know there was an author Melissa Bond who had indicated in her book she stayed at 5mg...I am not sure where she is at now with her dosing but if I could have my life back, I really could care less if I have to take it to stay functioning. I am on disability and it is just not what I want for the rest of my life. There is so much more I can offer the world...

I am not sure about the Trazadone, I take Gabapentin and I do not mess with that dose anymore. I had to lower it at one time because I was a space cadet. I almost walked into an obstacle at the horse ranch...I was like oh this is not good at all. So I lowered it 100mg at a time just during my afternoon dose and I felt better each time I lowered it so I knew it was what my body wanted. I am at 100mg now and am afraid to drop it off completely because of the intense nerve burning from the Valium issue. SO I just take the Gabapentin in the morning and evening...apparently the Gabapentin and Valium potentiate each other according to one pharmacist and should not be taken together...yet I have been taking them this way for a long period of time and am afraid to change it...so I have not.

Many blessings to you.

Love,

Fierce

July 29

Fierce

Thank you for your feedback. I go out and walk every day for about 90 minutes. If you are at 3-5 percent taper rate, how do you calculate what that dose should weigh? I am at 12.5 mgs of valium and my taper rate is currently 7.69 percent until I reach 12 mg; going from 12-11 at one mg MCT drop per month would be 8.33 taper rate.

I am not convinced that dragging this out further with the lower 5 percent micro taper rate would help me be more functional. It would take three months rather than two to reach a two mg drop.

But I may get desperate enough to try it.

I read Bond's book or more accurately listened to it on Audible. If she can remain functional at five mgs I think why drop further. If I were functional at 12.5 I would not drop.

Gabapentin is a tough drug to stop. I did taper off of it and never took it again. I think the trazedone is very damaging.

Carol

July 29

10 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Fierce

Thank you for your feedback. I go out and walk every day for about 90 minutes. If you are at 3-5 percent taper rate, how do you calculate what that dose should weigh? I am at 12.5 mgs of valium and my taper rate is currently 7.69 percent until I reach 12 mg; going from 12-11 at one mg MCT drop per month would be 8.33 taper rate.

I am not convinced that dragging this out further with the lower 5 percent micro taper rate would help me be more functional. It would take three months rather than two to reach a two mg drop.

But I may get desperate enough to try it.

I read Bond's book or more accurately listened to it on Audible. If she can remain functional at five mgs I think why drop further. If I were functional at 12.5 I would not drop.

Gabapentin is a tough drug to stop. I did taper off of it and never took it again. I think the trazedone is very damaging.

Carol

Carol,

Thank you for responding, that is super you walk 90 minutes!!! I do 25-30 sometimes, I have been doing more YOGA and horse back riding as of lately, I would love to work up to that. I am doing dry cutting so I use a scale to weigh the 5mg tablets.

My calculations look like this:

desired dose (mg) x actual weight of tablet (g) / actual dose of tablet (5mg constant)

so for example, my desired dose right now is 4.25mg in the morning:

4.25 x 0.179g/5.0g = 0.15215g

you have to do the multiplication before the division. I just shave off enough of the tablet to get the desired weight, I always try to stay within the third decimal. This weight would be 0.152, that third decimal makes a difference on such a small amount although technically with significant figured 2 significant figures would be enough.

July 29

On 27.7.2024 at 14:06, [[F...] said:

Schlaflosigkeit ist ein Entzugssymptom, das in jeder informativen Entzugsliteratur aufgeführt ist, die ich gefunden habe. Ich litt nach dem abrupten Aufhören unter Schlaflosigkeit. Ich weiß, es ist schrecklich.

Vielleicht gibt es hier einen Thread darüber, wie man das beheben kann … Ich denke, es ist sehr wichtig, jeden Tag eine Routine einzuhalten, egal wie schrecklich man sich fühlt. Angenommen, Sie möchten um 21 Uhr schlafen gehen, versuchen Sie alles, um sich jeden Tag zu sagen, dass es Zeit zum Schlafen ist. Beginnen Sie eine Stunde vor dem Zubettgehen. Einige Ideen könnten sein, einen Diffusor mit ätherischem Lavendelöl einzuschalten, ein warmes Bad oder eine warme Dusche zu nehmen, sicherzustellen, dass Ihr Bett bequem ist, einen Pyjama anzuziehen, beruhigende Musik zu hören … und machen Sie das Tag für Tag weiter, egal was passiert. Irgendwann werden Ihr Körper und Ihr Geist wissen, dass es Zeit zum Schlafen ist, und Sie werden anfangen zu schlafen.

Im Moment ist das Paradoxe für mich: Ich könnte Tag und Nacht schlafen, aber ich bin erschöpft. Ich glaube, mein Körper hat in den letzten zehn Jahren einfach genug von schlechter Behandlung und Traumata ertragen … Ich erhole mich langsam, also muss ich meinem Körper einfach geben, was er braucht.

So schmerzhaft es auch war, ich zwang mich, mehrmals pro Woche Yoga zu machen. Auch wenn es nur für ein paar Minuten war … manchmal konnte ich nur in der Stellung des Kindes sitzen und weinen. Jetzt geht es mir nach einer Stunde immer besser, aber es hat eine Weile gedauert, bis ich mich so weit hochgearbeitet hatte. Meine Nerven brannten, ich musste nach dem Kurs eine Stunde schlafen … Ich wusste einfach, dass ich meine Muskelkraft zurückgewinnen musste. Ich war so schwach und erschöpft. Ich denke, vielleicht solltest du in Erwägung ziehen, jeden Tag ein paar Minuten spazieren zu gehen und dabei schöne Musik zu hören. Oder eine sanfte Yoga-Übung nach einem YouTube-Video. Vielleicht machst du das schon …

Leider ist ein chemischer Eingriff nicht die einzige Lösung, und ich bin so froh, dass es Ihnen etwas besser geht. Sie werden schlafen, essen Sie einfach gut und kümmern Sie sich um sich selbst. Geben Sie sich Zeit. Ehe Sie sich versehen, kommen Sie zu Ihren Benzodiazepinen und tippen eine Antwort ein, in der Sie sagen, dass Sie geschlafen haben. Versuchen Sie, geduldig mit sich selbst zu sein und so ruhig wie möglich zu bleiben.

Liebe,

Erbittert

On 28.7.2024 at 03:55, [[F...] said:

Ich weiß, wie schwer es ist, im Moment eine positive Einstellung zu haben, besonders wenn es nicht Ihre Schuld ist und das Unbekannte super beängstigend ist. Wenn Sie können, versuchen Sie Ihr Bestes, Ihren Kopf nicht mit den „Was wäre wenn“-Gedanken zu füllen. Sie können Sie wirklich täuschen und unnötigen Stress und Angst verursachen. Es scheint, dass es Ihnen mit 45 mg besser geht, wie Sie erwähnt haben, lassen Sie uns das für heute akzeptieren. Sie fühlen sich besser, Sie können und werden sich stabilisieren. Über die Toleranz müssen Sie sich im Moment keine Sorgen machen. Fühlen Sie sich einfach wohl, wo Sie sind, machen Sie sich keine Sorgen über die tatsächliche Anzahl der Milligramm, die Sie einnehmen, vertrauen Sie darauf, wie Sie sich fühlen. Die Zahl kann mich ständig täuschen, wenn ich meine Tablette wiege und sie auch nur ein bisschen daneben liegt, sage ich mir, dass ich Entzugserscheinungen bekomme, und ich werde so wütend und fange mit den „Was wäre wenn“-Gedanken an. Sie sind okay, wir sind okay, erinnern Sie sich immer wieder daran, auch wenn Sie Symptome spüren … es ist das Medikament, es liegt nicht an Ihnen …

Ich litt nach dem abrupten Absetzen im August 2019 schrecklich unter Schlaflosigkeit, dann war ich nach der Ativan-Injektion wieder mehrere Tage am Stück wach. Ich dachte, ich könnte aus meiner Haut fahren. Ich kann die Qualen gar nicht beschreiben … ich habe so viel Mitgefühl für das, was Sie durchmachen. Nach meiner CT von Klonopin war ich etwa 2 Wochen ohne Schlaf, aber ich nahm gleichzeitig eine sehr hohe Dosis Zoloft, die ich ziemlich schnell reduzieren musste, und dann konnte ich ein wenig schlafen, eine Stunde hier oder da … dann ein paar Stunden … jetzt kann ich problemlos 8 Stunden am Stück schlafen, aber ich nehme täglich 9,25 mg Valium, 5 mg abends.

Thank you so much. My doctor will Switch me to klonopin because of the tolerance. I don't know If thats a good idea

July 29

I feel Just so hopeless because i Had already so much healing and it seems that everyone heals faster then me. Even the Cold Turkey people. I know No one who didn't sleep 2,5 jears

July 29

1 hour ago, [[H...] said:

I feel Just so hopeless because i Had already so much healing and it seems that everyone heals faster then me. Even the Cold Turkey people. I know No one who didn't sleep 2,5 jears

Hi Hope,

I am so sorry you have to go through all of this too. I do not know what the right answer is.

I can only tell you my experience and I am not sure that would even help you at all. I know you will find your way, take some time and research the Klonopin medication. I know in time you will heal, I hope a light will guide you in the right direction.

Love,

Fierce

July 31

On 22.7.2024 at 01:15, [[p...] said:

Ich bin immer noch verwirrt über Ihren Dosierungsplan. Haben Sie 6 Wochen lang die hohen Dosen von 45 oder 60 mg eingenommen? Wenn das der Fall ist, wäre eine Reduzierung auf die gewünschten 16 mg eine viel zu große Reduzierung.

Ich verstehe, dass die Schlaflosigkeit schrecklich ist. Es ist jedoch wahrscheinlich, dass Sie damit klarkommen müssen, bis Ihr Körper lernt, auf natürliche Weise ohne chemische Eingriffe zu schlafen.

So wie ich das verstehe, kann Seroquel in niedriger Dosierung bei Schlaflosigkeit helfen. Ich habe keine Erfahrung mit diesem Medikament. Wie hoch ist Ihre Dosierung?

Ihre Situation ist einzigartig, aber nicht hoffnungslos. Ich kenne Mitglieder, die von hohen Valium-Dosen abgesetzt wurden. Dazu braucht es einen vernünftigen und langsamen Ausschleichplan und Geduld. Es wird wirklich wichtig sein, sich auf eine konstante Dosis zu stabilisieren, bevor man mit dem Ausschleichen beginnt.

Sie werden eine Vielzahl von Meinungen aus anderen Gruppen erhalten. Hier versuchen wir, Ihnen die besten Informationen zu geben, damit Sie den Ausschleichungsplan auswählen können, der Ihnen zum Erfolg verhilft.

@pianogirl i can't stabilize because i still Stuck in prozac Withdrawal. I absolutely don't know what to do. I feel indescribebly hopeless

August 5

On 22.7.2024 at 01:15, [[p...] said:

Ich bin immer noch verwirrt über Ihren Dosierungsplan. Haben Sie 6 Wochen lang die hohen Dosen von 45 oder 60 mg eingenommen? Wenn das der Fall ist, wäre eine Reduzierung auf die gewünschten 16 mg eine viel zu große Reduzierung.

Ich verstehe, dass die Schlaflosigkeit schrecklich ist. Es ist jedoch wahrscheinlich, dass Sie damit klarkommen müssen, bis Ihr Körper lernt, auf natürliche Weise ohne chemische Eingriffe zu schlafen.

So wie ich das verstehe, kann Seroquel in niedriger Dosierung bei Schlaflosigkeit helfen. Ich habe keine Erfahrung mit diesem Medikament. Wie hoch ist Ihre Dosierung?

Ihre Situation ist einzigartig, aber nicht hoffnungslos. Ich kenne Mitglieder, die von hohen Valium-Dosen abgesetzt wurden. Dazu braucht es einen vernünftigen und langsamen Ausschleichplan und Geduld. Es wird wirklich wichtig sein, sich auf eine konstante Dosis zu stabilisieren, bevor man mit dem Ausschleichen beginnt.

Sie werden eine Vielzahl von Meinungen aus anderen Gruppen erhalten. Hier versuchen wir, Ihnen die besten Informationen zu geben, damit Sie den Ausschleichungsplan auswählen können, der Ihnen zum Erfolg verhilft.

@[pi...] are you Sure that i can stabilize? This half CT was 9 Months ago

August 10

On 22.7.2024 at 17:25, [[p...] said:

Idealerweise sollten Sie eine Dosis wählen, die hilft, die Symptome zu minimieren. Sie müssen entscheiden, wie hoch diese Dosis ist. Wir können Ihnen nicht sagen, was wirkt und was nicht. Sie kennen Ihren Körper. Ich hoffe, dass Sie die Dosis finden, die für Sie wirkt. Lassen Sie uns wissen, mit welcher Dosis Sie stabilisieren möchten.

@[...]Klaviermädchen Im taking 50 (!!!!!!!) mg now! I'm desperate, i never wanted to end up in so much drugs. It's the average of the amount from the Last Months. Long Story short: they CT me from 30 to 16 mg, WD kicked in 2 months later and now im on 50 mg. I feel the updosing can't Catch the Withdrawal. I'm desperate, hysterical. I never wanted to get addicted. Now im still worse and bedbound. I can sleep with 50 mg, yes.

But im already ill since 3,5 jears and im Sure the taper will be hellish!!! I can't Imagine to live the next jears in agony again.

Especially without sleep. I'm so desperate. This drugs are made from the devil.

August 10

@[Ho...]

3 hours ago, [[H...] said:

@[...]Klaviermädchen Im taking 50 (!!!!!!!) mg now! I'm desperate, i never wanted to end up in so much drugs. It's the average of the amount from the Last Months. Long Story short: they CT me from 30 to 16 mg, WD kicked in 2 months later and now im on 50 mg. I feel the updosing can't Catch the Withdrawal. I'm desperate, hysterical. I never wanted to get addicted. Now im still worse and bedbound. I can sleep with 50 mg, yes.

But im already ill since 3,5 jears and im Sure the taper will be hellish!!! I can't Imagine to live the next jears in agony again.

Especially without sleep. I'm so desperate. This drugs are made from the devil.

I thought my taper would be hellish also. It is not comfortable, but nothing near to how I badly I felt in March 2023 after the Ativan/Lexapro/Lamictal incident. I was taking 30mg inpatient, and quickly dropped down to 14mg as quickly as I could. The fact that you are sleeping is a really good sign. I can sense your emotions for sure in your posts, and I know it is hard because I feel like that too at times, it is just not every day like it used to be. It comes to an end...the panic becomes less. The hardest part for me was accepting. I had to accept if I could eat three meals a day that was good enough. If I could take out the garbage, that was a feat and I had conquered. Going food shopping...it was all just a little bit at a time. Even my equine therapy, I would be dreading going, shaking when I got there, nerves on fire like the infernos of hell while riding, and I could not imagine anything helping my feel even 1% better or my nerves ever healing...I never thought I would be even 50% indefinitely and that is about where I am now with the hope of getting to 90%. I still have a ways to go, but I can enjoy little things here and there. Last night I was singing...these are all signs of happiness. I want to share this with you because I have been where you are, and you will get well. It just takes time, it is important that you take care of yourself. I know if I do not eat I am in a tail spin for sure. If I let my apartment get messy, or tasks pile up I get overwhelmed...Do your very best to love yourself in all circumstances, I have lost too much time not doing that.

Do not lose faith, "Take heart daughter..." you only need faith the size of a mustard seed. I know you can find it.

Love,

Fierce

August 11

20 hours ago, [[F...] said:

@[Ho...]

Ich dachte auch, mein Ausschleichen würde höllisch werden. Es ist nicht angenehm, aber nicht annähernd so schlimm, wie ich mich im März 2023 nach dem Ativan/Lexapro/Lamictal-Vorfall gefühlt habe. Ich habe stationär 30 mg genommen und bin so schnell wie möglich auf 14 mg runtergegangen. Die Tatsache, dass Sie schlafen, ist ein wirklich gutes Zeichen. Ich kann Ihre Emotionen in Ihren Posts definitiv spüren, und ich weiß, dass es schwer ist, weil ich mich manchmal auch so fühle, es ist einfach nicht mehr jeden Tag so wie früher. Es geht zu Ende... die Panik lässt nach. Der schwierigste Teil für mich war, es zu akzeptieren. Ich musste akzeptieren, dass es gut genug war, wenn ich drei Mahlzeiten am Tag essen konnte. Wenn ich den Müll rausbringen konnte, war das eine Leistung und ich hatte es geschafft. Lebensmittel einkaufen... es ging alles nur ein bisschen auf einmal. Sogar vor meiner Pferdetherapie hatte ich Angst, zitterte, wenn ich dort ankam, meine Nerven brannten wie in der Hölle beim Reiten, und ich konnte mir nicht vorstellen, dass irgendetwas mir auch nur 1 % besser ging oder dass meine Nerven jemals heilen würden ... Ich hätte nie gedacht, dass ich auf unbestimmte Zeit auch nur 50 % schaffen würde, und das ist ungefähr der Stand, an dem ich jetzt bin, und ich hoffe, 90 % zu erreichen. Ich habe noch einen weiten Weg vor mir, aber ich kann mich hier und da an kleinen Dingen erfreuen. Letzte Nacht habe ich gesungen ... das sind alles Zeichen des Glücks. Ich möchte das mit Ihnen teilen, weil ich in Ihrer Situation war und Sie gesund werden. Es braucht nur Zeit, es ist wichtig, dass Sie auf sich selbst aufpassen. Ich weiß, wenn ich nicht esse, bin ich definitiv im Trudeln. Wenn ich zulasse, dass meine Wohnung unordentlich wird oder sich Aufgaben stapeln, bin ich überfordert ... Geben Sie Ihr Bestes, sich unter allen Umständen selbst zu lieben, ich habe zu viel Zeit damit verloren, das nicht zu tun.

Verlieren Sie nicht den Glauben. „Sei getrost, Tochter ...“ Sie brauchen nur Glauben von der Größe eines Senfkorns. Ich weiß, dass Sie ihn finden können.

Liebe,

Erbitter

Thank you 💗

But i actually only sleep because doctor upped the Dose. I'm Not sleeping Natural. They destroyed my sleep with the half CT of 30 mg Valium which have No sleep either but the miracle happened that i started sleeping by myself even in tolerance. No 0 sleep without this high Dose of Valium which makes me terrified... 😱

August 11

7 hours ago, [[H...] said:

Thank you 💗

But i actually only sleep because doctor upped the Dose. I'm Not sleeping Natural. They destroyed my sleep with the half CT of 30 mg Valium which have No sleep either but the miracle happened that i started sleeping by myself even in tolerance. No 0 sleep without this high Dose of Valium which makes me terrified... 😱

@[Ho...] Do your very best not to be so afraid of needing the dose to sleep for now. It is only temporary and I promise you that you will be able to sleep eventually without it. But it is going to take time. Right now, it may benefit you the most to try to stabilize with different coping strategies. I feel in my heart that once your days get a bit better, your confidence will build and the fear will begin to lessen. It took my a very long time and much therapy to get to that place. You sound much stronger than I am, I know you can do this Hope. You will be alright, we all will be. Sending you love, prayers, and hugs. Hang in there okay...

We are here for you.

Love,

Fierce

August 11

On 22/07/2024 at 17:45, [[H...] said:

@[pi...] the Problem is i went into tolerance with 30 mg. They don't Work anymore. I tried 40 mg. They don't Work anymore too. I could try 45. That helps for sleep, Not for mood. There is No Dose where i feel real stable. But what If 45 mg only helps for sleep and then im getting tolerance again??? Or If im tapering and sleep vanishs???

I was doing this with diazepam to. Finally i was up to 150+mg.. and it did nothing for me. It's how this drug works..

Please Donate

Desperate because of Valium Chaos and polydrugging Nightmare

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