Desperate because of Valium Chaos and polydrugging Nightmare

[[Ho...]]

Hello Friends,

i'll try to make it short.

I'm in serious Crises.

I was on prozac for 7 jears. In October 2020 i CTed the drug First time like doctors advice. I started to get Depression and sleep was worse then before but enough to be ok.

Then i reinstated 0,5 mg because german Antidepressant Groups pressured to reinstate.

It didn't Help and what followed was a hell like i never could Imagine ever in this universe.

Hallucinations, Zero sleep, shaking, DP/DR, hyperacusis, etc...

Eventually i ended up i Hospital and got polydrugged with zoloft and remeron and various other drugs which ended up in a suicide attempt after 5 Months of Zero sleep and akathisia.

Then i landed Up in Hospital again.

They put me on Seroquel. I didn't Help for sleep. In May 2022 i agreed to take the valium 30 mg even it brokes my Heart but i knew i will get in danger with Zero sleep.

Anyway, and thats the important Point:

In September last jear tolerance kicked in but then the miracle happened: i slept by myself after 2,5 jears!!!!!!!

My ex Psychiatrist sended me to Hospital in Detox. The tapered the Valium everyday 1 mg. At 16 mg i flew Out of Hospital.

At this Point i didn't feel Symptoms. But 2 months later the Withdrawal Hit me like a bomb!!!! 

I'm Back to almost Zero sleep.

I tried to protect my life and screwed around with Higher dosages because i was so desperate for sleep. I can only sleep with 65 mg Valium.

I took extra doses one or two Times at week and since six weeks almost everyday.

Now i stuck in the shit. 

My new doctor suggested me to Go Back on 30 mg, but this is Not enough. I talked to Chris Paige and He asked me what my gut Feeling is. I also talked to Baylissa.

I told Chris that i don't want to end up in 65 mg but im scared Like hell to stay on 16 which i really want. He agreed and Said he would do the same.

I'm scared because in Facebook Group they told me i have to taper from Higher doses now or i will experience LONG Withdrawal again!!! 😢

Actually i want to stabilize on 16 mg but i don't want to suffer for jears again. It's been 3 jears now for me of Stolen Life. I Miss myself and everything everyday. Sports, Gym, riding, Friends, Work, Family.

I don't know what to do anymore.

Please No discouragement, i already Had it on Facebook Group. The told me im abusing the Valium.

I Just want to find the best solution to get my Life back.... 😪❤️

@[...]Klaviermädchen this is my new Topic

[[Bu...]]

Hi @[Ho...],

 I am so very sorry that you're in this situation.  Please don't be too hard on yourself.  Many of us are cast into horrible situations and we all are just doing our best to figure a way out of it. 

I don't know how much help I can be, as Valium wasn't my benzo, but I'll do my best.

I just wanted to clarify your current situation a bit, you are on 16 mgs of Valium currently and want to try to stabilize there?

And if I may ask, are you taking anything else?

And how is your sleep now?

I'm not sure about the part about needing to reinstate at a higher dose to avoid long withdrawal.  I think many people choose to hold where they are to see if they stabilize and then eventually continue with their taper.

I'm sure folks with more experience with that will chime in too.

 

[[Ho...]]

Hello,

my sleep is 0 - 3 hours at night. Yes i want to stay on 16 mg. But so scared that WD will Take Long Time because of screwing around with lots of doses. 😪

I Hope to get answers from people WHO where in Same Situation.

 

[[Ho...]]

9 minutes ago, [[B...] said:

Hallo@[Ho...],

 Es tut mir so leid, dass Sie in dieser Situation sind. Bitte seien Sie nicht zu streng mit sich selbst. Viele von uns geraten in schreckliche Situationen und wir alle tun einfach unser Bestes, um einen Ausweg daraus zu finden. 

Ich weiß nicht, wie sehr ich helfen kann, da Valium nicht mein Benzodiazepin war, aber ich werde mein Bestes tun.

Ich wollte nur kurz Ihre derzeitige Situation erläutern: Sie nehmen derzeit 16 mg Valium und möchten versuchen, Ihren Zustand zu stabilisieren?

Und wenn ich fragen darf, nehmen Sie noch etwas anderes?

Und wie ist dein Schlaf jetzt?

Ich bin mir nicht sicher, was den Teil angeht, in dem es darum geht, eine höhere Dosis wieder einzunehmen, um lange Entzugsphasen zu vermeiden. Ich glaube, viele Menschen entscheiden sich dafür, bei der aktuellen Dosis zu bleiben, um zu sehen, ob sie sich stabilisieren, und dann schließlich mit der Ausschleichung fortzufahren.

Ich bin sicher, dass sich auch Leute mit mehr Erfahrung auf diesem Gebiet zu Wort melden werden.

Ah, i they Put me on a ton of Seroquel 

[[pi...]]

Hello @[Ho...],

What was the last dose amount you took of Valium? When was this dose? 

@[Bu...]is correct, we all have to wander around seemingly lost until we find the plan that is the best for our unique circumstances. Once we hear back, we’ll try to offer information and suggestions. Ultimately you have to decide what is in your best interests. 

[[Ho...]]

The last Dose was 60 mg. Before i Had around 45 every two Till 3 days for six weeks.

Before i was the most time on 16 mg. Only when total insomnia kicked in i took around 65. This happened every 6 days i guess.

I think i wouldnt find a prescriber for 50 mg. And actually i don't want to Take more from this poison, i was only desperate and Had to protect my life. 

I guess i have to Deal somehow with total insomnia again. I never thought this this would Happen again 

[[pi...]]

I am still confused about your dosing schedule. Have you been on the high doses of 45 or 60 mg for 6 weeks? If that is the case, dropping to your desired 16mg would be far too significant a reduction.

I understand that the insomnia is awful. However, it is likely that you will have to deal with it until your body learns to sleep naturally without chemical intervention. 

From what I understand, seroquel at low doses can help with insomia. I don’t have any experience with this drug. What is your dose?

Your situation is unique but not hopeless. I know members who have tapered from large doses of Valium. It takes a sensible and slow taper plan and patience. It will be really important to stabilize on one steady dose before starting to taper. 

You’ll get a wide variety of opinions from other groups. Here we try to give you the  best information so you can choose the taper plan that will help you be successful. 

[[Fi...]]

I    am moderately unclear of exactly what dose you are currently taking consistently...forgive my inability to process anything properly these days, I    am cognitively impaired and it is incredibly frustrating.  I    am chiming in because I    am in a Valium taper after being polydrugged, hospitalized etc., and can understand your discomfort...

First, I    am so sorry you are suffering.  I    know this is just an absolute miserable experience, I    feel like I    am going absolutely mad most days.  I    know what it is like to want your life back, I     have been suffering tremendously since my separation from my husband in 2018.  I    think I    had a breakdown, I    had suffered long before with mental illness and that just destroyed me.  So here I    am, in 2024...just still not quite "right," but getting back to your situation...

Second, let's discuss your current status...you can't sleep unless you take high doses of Valium, but are you consistently taking 16mg per day?  I    do not want to advise you, but I    am going to tell you what I    had to do.  When I    was discharged form inpatient care I    was taking 30mg of Valium per day and as quickly as I    could I    got myself down to a dose I    could tolerate...it took a little trial and error to find the proper timing and dose.  Once I    was stable at 14mg, 7mg AM and 7mg PM, I    started to taper a few weeks after.  And whoa, it was not easy either.  I    mistakingly started breaking chips off the pills without a scale, sort of using my eyes to determine the dose...I    would try to decrease 0.25mg each time I    dropped.  That was wayyyyyyyy too fast!  In my early tapering I    dropped 0.5mg once, and talk about a tail spin!  It took me two months to stabilize before I    could taper again.  Now, I    just decrease as my body feels ready and every time, no matter how much or how little my body just does not like it and I     feel miserable...then I    get strong again and do it all over.  The best way for me is to micro taper by dry cutting and weighing the tablets.  It is the most comfortable for me...I    make a mistake with a calculation here or there...I    am still not working and am an emotional wreck.  I    have crying fits...but oddly I    can sleep...I    could sleep all day every day.  It is incredibly odd, and I    hope that continues.  I    do not want to suffer insomnia again.  It is obvious to me I    am in a state of depression.

So here is my advice now, try your very best find a comfortable dose and stabilize, do not deviate from the amount, you have to tough it out (and my heart goes out to you this might be a challenge)...then begin your taper.  It might be 16mg, it might be 17mg, I    have no idea...it might be 20mg (be careful as updating is not advised).  The most important thing is to get strong and confident to prepare for the potential hell that can come with tapering.  And let me emphasize potential, it is not definite.  But I  know from experience that taking inconsistent doses is just a BAD idea.  Must get the blood levels the same for an extended period of time so your body can establish homeostasis.  And it will, mine does each time...I    oddly will say to my provider, I    am not going any lower I     can't it's too painful...then I    get strong again and drop, the same cycle follows.  I    break down, cry, kick, have tantrums and then I    feel like nothing ever happened.  I    hate it, but it is what I    am presently living with...it is what God gave me, and I    know it has a greater purpose.  

You have control over some of the variables here, and feel good about that.  You can control your dose and rate of taper.  You will find alternatives to get rest, be patient with yourself and accept where you are.  It is where you are supposed to be for now...it is only temporary.  I    believe we all come out better on the other side.  I    have yet to hear anyone say anything otherwise.  I    have a tendency to try to do too much, and want to do more.  I    need to just be...in this agony, just accept it and be present.  All feelings are temporary, they always pass on.  Please reach out if you need anything, my prayers are with us all always...we will find the way.  

Love,

Fierce

[[Ca...]]

Fierce -- I am right there with you. Sorry it's so awful for you as well.

[[Ho...]]

@[...]Klaviermädchen

Yes, i took lots of high doses the last few weeks. I already tried 30 mg because doctor suggested it. But they didn't Work. 40 mg don't Work anymore. I'm devastasted. 

What should i do now?????

[[Ho...]]

9 hours ago, [[p...] said:

Ich bin immer noch verwirrt über Ihren Dosierungsplan. Haben Sie 6 Wochen lang die hohen Dosen von 45 oder 60 mg eingenommen? Wenn das der Fall ist, wäre eine Reduzierung auf die gewünschten 16 mg eine viel zu große Reduzierung.

Ich verstehe, dass die Schlaflosigkeit schrecklich ist. Es ist jedoch wahrscheinlich, dass Sie damit klarkommen müssen, bis Ihr Körper lernt, auf natürliche Weise ohne chemische Eingriffe zu schlafen. 

So wie ich das verstehe, kann Seroquel in niedriger Dosierung bei Schlaflosigkeit helfen. Ich habe keine Erfahrung mit diesem Medikament. Wie hoch ist Ihre Dosierung?

Ihre Situation ist einzigartig, aber nicht hoffnungslos. Ich kenne Mitglieder, die von hohen Valium-Dosen abgesetzt wurden. Dazu braucht es einen vernünftigen und langsamen Ausschleichplan und Geduld. Es wird wirklich wichtig sein, sich auf eine konstante Dosis zu stabilisieren, bevor man mit dem Ausschleichen beginnt. 

Sie werden eine Vielzahl von Meinungen aus anderen Gruppen erhalten. Hier versuchen wir, Ihnen die besten Informationen zu geben, damit Sie den Ausschleichungsplan auswählen können, der Ihnen zum Erfolg verhilft. 

Does that mean that i have to updose?

[[Fi...]]

It seems like it would benefit you to choose a dose and wait it out.  I    am not sure what that dose is, and I    believe you can find it...and you will balance.  This is not going to be a quick fix, I    wish it could be.  It took me a couple of days on the consistent Valium dose inpatient to start to feel better and I    believe that will happen for you too.  I    do not believe anyone could have told me exactly what dose to be at, unfortunately I    had to find the strength to make that determination myself.  And I    know you have that strength too, this is where the patience and prayer comes in.  

I    had to reinstate on Valium after being cold turkeyed off of klonopin.  It was a terrible situation.  I    was at 2mg of klonopin a day, sometimes 1mg, and after rapid cessation I    did not recover for many years (about 4.5).  I    had another breakdown In March 2023, so my situation is very complicated.  But, as complicated as my situation is, I    was able to stabilize at 30mg of Valium which was more than 1mg equivalent of Klonopin daily.  I     was taking 10mg 3 times per day inpatient...I    would also like to mention that I    had consulted with Patricia Halligan MD while I    was inpatient because they all thought I    was delusional, she had to talk to the doctor that was treating me.  I    may have been, I    did not sleep for several days after the Ativan injection they gave me which through me into acute withdrawals that were agonizing.  But that is behind me, I    survived.  And I  am not going to deny I    am traumatized which has left me petrified of hospitals.  So I    understand your pain, you are not alone.

...my suggestion is for you to try a consistent dose and stay there for at minimum a few days.  You will balance...hang in there.  I    hope you feel better soon.

Love,

Fierce

 

 

 

[[pi...]]

2 hours ago, [[H...] said:

Does that mean that i have to updose?

No you don’t . But as @[Fi...] states, you need to commit to a steady dose and unfortunately sleep may be elusive for a while. I believe you need to hold that dose for at least 2 weeks since you have been fluctuating so much in the past months.

[[Fi...]]

7 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Fierce -- I am right there with you. Sorry it's so awful for you as well.

Carol jean,

 

Thank you for saying that...I    try to live on as normally as I    can but am just starting to give up emotionally, which is why I    am depressed.  It is hard to keep going, keep putting one foot in front of the other...nerve burning and mental anguish.  I    am starting to get very tired these days...I    have had enough.  God is my go to, and He knows I    am at the end of the rope as they say.  I    just do not feel like I    care anymore.

 

Love,

Fierce

[[Ho...]]

Vor 2 Stunden sagte pianogirl:

Nein, das tust du nicht. Aber auch@[Wi...] Sie müssen eine gleichbleibende Dosis einhalten, und leider kann es sein, dass Sie eine Zeit lang nicht schlafen können. Ich glaube, Sie müssen diese Dosis mindestens 2 Wochen lang beibehalten, da Ihre Dosis in den letzten Monaten so stark geschwankt hat

@[...]Klaviermädchen Thank you. Does that mean that i will Stuck at 16 mg and trying to stabilize?

Edited July 22 by [Ho...]

[[pi...]]

3 hours ago, [[H...] said:

@[...]Klaviermädchen Thank you. Does that mean that i will Stuck at 16 mg and trying to stabilize?

Ideally you should choose a dose that helps to minimize symptoms. You will have to decide what that dose is, we can’t tell you what will and what won’t work. You know your body. I hope that you can find the dose that works for you, let us know what you decide to stabilize on. 

[[Ho...]]

@[pi...] the Problem is i went into tolerance with 30 mg. They don't Work anymore. I tried 40 mg. They don't Work anymore too. I could try 45. That helps for sleep, Not for mood. There is No Dose where i feel real stable.  But what If 45 mg only helps for sleep and then im getting tolerance again??? Or If im tapering and sleep vanishs???

 

Edited July 22 by [Ho...]

[[Ho...]]

@[pi...]

I think updosing is a Game of time Till tolerance will kick in again If i'm Maybe Not stable enough.

The question is do i have to suffer for Maybe a jear without updosing or do i have to suffer for several jears with a highdose taper Till im finally free from this poison and then needing Maybe 18 Months to recover

[[Ti...]]

I’m so very sorry this happened to you. Time will heal you. Find your strength, a reason and a purpose to guide you, or faith, whatever, just find a rock and a star to guide you. Because as Sarah McLauchlan sings, “this is gonna hurt like hell.” 

Something very similar happened to me and I fast tapered all of it before it drug out for years. Not sure if that was the best course of action, but I was tired of the chains and shackles and just got off all of it. I was already completely miserable so I figured the less poison in my body, the better. If I could do it again I would slow taper. 

Sending you healing vibes accross the internet. You are going to be okay. You can do this. 

[[Ho...]]

How long took it for you to get better?

[[Ho...]]

@[...]Klaviermädchen doctor Said to try 45 mg. But now after 3 days it doesnt Help with anything.

I Just want to Go to the original Dose. I can't taper for jears because ive tried 6 weeks which amount will Help me

[[Ho...]]

Can someone Help please? I'm scared If i Take a Dose to stabilize then tolerance will kick in soon

[[Fi...]]

1 hour ago, [[H...] said:

Can someone Help please? I'm scared If i Take a Dose to stabilize then tolerance will kick in soon

Hope,

I am so sorry this has happened to you, and sadly many of us are in the same boat.  Please try to understand that the body takes time to stabilize.  If you are at 45mg, think about if that is a dose that could work for you to stay at, and it  could take a little time.  So this is a time that you must take very good care of yourself to help your body do what it needs to.  Make sure you are eating, keeping stress low, and continue to do things to help calm your nervous system.  I know that for me when I stop eating it makes everything worse…I have to practice YOGA and do light walking otherwise I feel badly.  I wish there was an easy way out of this or a quick fix but there just is not.  I really like some of the benzo withdrawal meditations, sometimes Dr Jenn the benzo coach, she is so calming to me, I listen to her YouTube videos.  She is very compassionate, speaks slowly, and is a good example of what a calm nervous system should look like.  I remember the horrors of having to do belly breathing and pacing for hours because I could not sit still…falling asleep for amount standing by the window while I had been walking in place and then being jolted by electric shock feeling as soon as I would doze off.  I would not have believed the suffering could be so painful.  Things are better now as I sort of stabilized and am tapering.  I certainly am not feeling perfectly well but I became strong enough to where I could decrease very slowly.  You will get there too.  So I guess I just want to tell you to try to find a dose that is sort of good enough for now so you’re not in agony, no one can really tell you what that is.  The doctor can make recommendations, so can other benzo buddies I suppose, but you must listen to your body.  This will all calm down if you give it a chance, and each day you will have slight improvements at the very least and little by little they all will add up.  Right now please try to set a small goal for yourself to just pick a dose and stay there.  I promise your body will begin to get more comfortable…but this will take time, patience, and every bit of strength you have to just accept and be.  I know for me, the lower I am getting in my dose, the more responsive I am to each dose.  I am feeling better but it took a long time, and I am really not where I want to be at all…but I am trying my best to focus on taking care of myself.  You will get to a better place soon I promise you will.  Sadly I have to tell you there is no absolute answer for anyone.  There is nothing that can fix this immediately from what I have learned.  
 

Please remember we are here for you, you are not alone, and we will help support each other through this ordeal.  You will be okay.  🙏
 

Love,

Fierce

 

[[Ho...]]

Thank you so much. I'm Just scared that tolerance will kick in again... Did you have Cold Turkey too before. Mine was already 6 Months ago, so im scared that it's too late. Thank god they didn't CT the complete dose

[[Fi...]]

7 hours ago, [[H...] said:

Thank you so much. I'm Just scared that tolerance will kick in again... Did you have Cold Turkey too before. Mine was already 6 Months ago, so im scared that it's too late. Thank god they didn't CT the complete dose

Please do not be afraid, you will be okay.  Once you are stable, it will be a time that you could consider beginning a taper.  I    am not sure about others, I    can only speak for myself, but I    feel better after each drop 0.25mg in dose, I    am in a very slow taper...It just seems that each time I  get to another 0.25mg decrease I    feel a bit better.  I    am now on 9.25mg per day!  I    left the hospital on 30mg.  Tapering is no party I    have to admit, but it is worth it.  I    can start to see the light now, I    assume that my nerves are healing and are becoming more responsive to the medicine.  I    am not sure this is the case for anyone but this is what I    feel.  Prior I    would take a dose and if I    had relief for a few hours that was a long time.  Now I    take a dose and I    feel better for a good portion of the day.  

I    was cold turkeyed off 2mg per day klonopin in August 2019, which is a 40mg Valium equivalent.  I    was sick for near 4 years until my mental illness just took over and I    needed inpatient care again.  It was because of an attempt to take lexapro, I    was desperate and became so unbelievably sick from it, then the hospital gave me an Ativan injection and all hell broke loose.  This was March 2023.  It was a very frightening time for me.  The notes from the nurses I    have read were just horrible...no one believed me that the Klonopin had made me so sick in 2019 and I    had not recovered.  But I    do not want to think back at that too much it frightens me still.

Have you been able to commit to a dose?  Once you do, let us know so we can support you.  It is really important that you understand none of this is your fault, and now you have to take this mess by the reins and not depend on anyone but yourself to choose your dose.  You have to trust how you are feeling, and whatever it is, stick with it and when you are ready to begin tapering down, this forum is amazing for helping to determine a method that is going to work for you.  Have you read the Ashton Manual yet?  It is a really great start to inform yourself on what is actually happening to your nervous system.  I    think there is a post somewhere about what is actually happening with your nerves by Parker, I    will try to find it...forgive me if I    have the wrong name of the author of the post but it is very informative.  If anyone has that link if you do not mind posting it?  

I    also really like neighbor bob on YouTube.com, he has a flat top haircut and is super.  I    watched his videos a lot early on and one of the best things he had mentioned, and I    am paraphrasing here, do not give up...tomorrow could be the day you heal.  That really resonated with me.  I    just need to hold on one more day...one more day...it got me through the early on stages, kind of the discomfort you are in now.   I    spent many hours in the bath tub, and watching fish tanks on YouTube.com.  It calmed me enough to stop the shaking and irritability.  

But, first.  Pick a dose, commit...your nerves will calm down if you give them a chance to.  Be patient with them and yourself as a whole

Love,

Fierce