Need help

[[co...]]

Friends,

Three kids and self employed. Had help from in laws getting kids to school today. Scared to leave my house to the point of tears. Can barely form speech sounds and swallow. Am on the 5-10% every two weeks taper schedule and am currently at 0.625mg since last Saturday (have come down from 3mg since April). Evaluating my options for care. Met with my terrific therapist yesterday and benefitted so not for lack of resources.

My customer has several thousand dollars worth of plants staged for planting that will die in the summer heat if not planted and watered. Am looking at options to subcontract this and the sod that will complete the job. Business on the brink of bankruptcy. Overwhelmed at losing what I've built for 2 years with blood, sweat and tears. But recognizing that in my situation I may need to let it go and find a way to heal. My duty as a father comes first and I would rather work a humble low stress job to take care of them despite having my degree and decades of work experience.

Not sure if I should go to the hospital and what that would benefit me today, given that my assumption is they will either increase my benzo or rapidly withdraw me from it, both of which seem to be worse. But what do I know? Can someone advise me?

Edited July 21 by [co...]

[[pi...]]

Hello @[co...],

My heart goes out to you. You are in a tough spot being a dad to 3 and the owner of a business. 

I believe the cuts are catching up to you. From what I read you started at 3mg of clonazepam, is this correct? You started tapering in April. That’s a pretty huge reduction of a very strong benzo. I would suggest perhaps slowing the taper down even more and not adhering to a strict taper amount but let your symptoms guide the taper. 

You are a good dad, putting your kids first. I’m so sorry about the business, benzos and withdrawal can wreck havoc on all parts of our lives. I do think your mindset is on the right path and putting your health and well-being at the forefront. 

I don’t see that the hospital would provide any help except as you said,  increase your dose or add adjunct medications.

Keep posting, we understand what you are going through. There is a light ahead at the end of the tunnel. It may be dim now, but as time goes on and you heal, the light will shine brighter and brighter.

[[co...]]

12 minutes ago, [[p...] said:

Hello @[co...],

My heart goes out to you. You are in a tough spot being a dad to 3 and the owner of a business. 

I believe the cuts are catching up to you. From what I read you started at 3mg of clonazepam, is this correct? You started tapering in April. That’s a pretty huge reduction of a very strong benzo. I would suggest perhaps slowing the taper down even more and not adhering to a strict taper amount but let your symptoms guide the taper. 

You are a good dad, putting your kids first. I’m so sorry about the business, benzos and withdrawal can wreck havoc on all parts of our lives. I do think your mindset is on the right path and putting your health and well-being at the forefront. 

I don’t see that the hospital would provide any help except as you said,  increase your dose or add adjunct medications.

Keep posting, we understand what you are going through. There is a light ahead at the end of the tunnel. It may be dim now, but as time goes on and you heal, the light will shine brighter and brighter.

I am very grateful for your compassion and support with your kind and wise words--an absolute lifeline. To add something for consideration, besides the withdrawal effects of lowering the medicine in my body, there are psychological, emotional and physical issues surfacing that have existed as distinct from the benzo effects due to the hypnotic effect of the medicine wearing off. They are so intense that I am flooded by them but can only refer to them as "them" because I don't have the capacity yet to identify and understand them. That is to say, I believe the issues that have always existed that the benzo masked are surfacing at the same time the withdrawal effects from the medicine are occurring, and that it can be hard to disentangle the two.

[[vo...]]

@[co...]I greatly admire your dedication to your family and putting their needs above your own. I hope you find the support you need here to continue taking care of them. There are many knowledgeable and compassionate people here who are ready to help. Keep posting to make the most of the assistance available.

I typed this before I read your message above. Take a look at the symptoms I have in my profile to see if maybe you have some of the same symptoms, to help give you peace of mind that you are dealing with the same or similar symptoms. Also, read other's posts explaining their symptoms. My reading about others has helped me tremendously to see that I am not alone in dealing with everything that comes with this journey. 

Wishing you all the best.

[[pi...]]

1 hour ago, [[c...] said:

I am very grateful for your compassion and support with your kind and wise words--an absolute lifeline. To add something for consideration, besides the withdrawal effects of lowering the medicine in my body, there are psychological, emotional and physical issues surfacing that have existed as distinct from the benzo effects due to the hypnotic effect of the medicine wearing off. They are so intense that I am flooded by them but can only refer to them as "them" because I don't have the capacity yet to identify and understand them. That is to say, I believe the issues that have always existed that the benzo masked are surfacing at the same time the withdrawal effects from the medicine are occurring, and that it can be hard to disentangle the two.

You said it very well, benzos mask and suppress things that ultimately we need to deal with. Traumas and other issues will have to be addressed, but in my opinion, it’s best to use therapies and modalities once recovery is fully engaged. Withdrawal tends to amply these things, makes them larger than life. I would not try to name them, but allow them  to be there, knowing that it’s the benzo and its withdrawal talking. I also think it’s fine to vent. I would yell at my symptoms in the car while driving at times and my daughter’s dog was the recipient of many rants while I walked him.

I did use deep belly box breathing, and it helped.  Breathe  in for a count of 4, hold for a count of 4, exhale for a count of 4 and hold for a count of 4. Allow the stress to leave with each exhale. 

Many people walked this path before going on to full recovery. Acceptance, patience and belief in healing is what I found necessary. 

 

 

[[Em...]]

3 hours ago, [[c...] said:

Friends,

Three kids and self employed. Had help from in laws getting kids to school today. Scared to leave my house to the point of tears. Can barely form speech sounds and swallow. Am on the 5-10% every two weeks taper schedule and am currently at 1.125mg since last Saturday (have come down from 3mg since April). Evaluating my options for care. Met with my terrific therapist yesterday and benefitted so not for lack of resources.

My customer has several thousand dollars worth of plants staged for planting that will die in the summer heat if not planted and watered. Am looking at options to subcontract this and the sod that will complete the job. Business on the brink of bankruptcy. Overwhelmed at losing what I've built for 2 years with blood, sweat and tears. But recognizing that in my situation I may need to let it go and find a way to heal. My duty as a father comes first and I would rather work a humble low stress job to take care of them despite having my degree and decades of work experience.

Not sure if I should go to the hospital and what that would benefit me today, given that my assumption is they will either increase my benzo or rapidly withdraw me from it, both of which seem to be worse. But what do I know? Can someone advise me?

Hi there,

I have little time to reply since my bus stop is coming up soon but I still wanted to say something. I can relate to your despair ❤🩹

Benzo withdrawal is sort of a trial and error. I agree with your thoughts that the hospital wont be the ideal place to get help - there they will either updose and discharge you or taper you off too fast. 

You need to see this as a journey. It will take few months, even a year, even two years.. who knows? When I finally came to terms with this everything became easier. You have been going down for a good amount of mgs in a relatively short time. Sometimes the WD is delayed and kind of "kicks in" double so to speak. I think this is very likely happening to you; also because you have extra stress right now. Very typical, I feel.

Why don't you try holding at your current dose for 2-3 weeks? See what happens? You might very well level out and then you can take it from there; taper slower from there on? 

I agree with other comments about listening to your body. Symptom-led taper. It has worked the best for me. Never cut except you have reach baseline again.

Take good care and good luck with everything.

[[Ta...]]

First, you can do this. I jumped 2 1/2 months ago after 20 years on ativan and klonopin and am functioning well. As already stated, I think your taper from 3mg in April is too rapid. I generally stuck to a very slow taper of 5% every two weeks, and sometimes less.  If I were you, I’d increase dosage to whatever you should be at in your taper schedule. Then continue. I also switched from ativan to klonopin due to the longer half life. You may want to do that. Finally, its important to reduce stress and anxiety. If you need to subcontract, do that. I’m also self employed and am taking less and easier work. Good luck!! 

Edited July 19 by [Ta...]
clarification

[[Cr...]]

4 hours ago, [[c...] said:

there are psychological, emotional and physical issues surfacing that have existed as distinct from the benzo effects due to the hypnotic effect of the medicine wearing off. They are so intense that I am flooded by them but can only refer to them as "them" because I don't have the capacity yet to identify and understand them.

That is very common during withdrawal. It happened to me and many others. Benzo use can suppress emotions and the processing of emotions related to past events. The memories/emotions can feel quite intense. It feels as those this will never go away and this is the "real" you but that is not the case.

Do not worry about understanding these emotions. I do not feel benzo withdrawal is the proper time to address them or psychoanalyze them. For the time being view their intensity as a symptom of withdrawal and remind yourself that you can tackle the significance, if any, of these feelings when you are in the right state of mind to do so.

When you are recovered from withdrawal you may find that theose memories still exist, but now they have absolutely no negative effects on you when you think about them.

[[Go...]]

Hi @[co...], I was on 2mg/ day for 5+ years. In 4 weeks I had cut that down to 1mg. I made it as far as .5mg and my taper caught up with me. I went back up to .75 and am currently holding there and am feeling much better than I was at .5. I agree that you should go back up to a tolerable dose to allow you to level out and be a functioning parent (I am also a parent) and hopefully a functioning business owner. A successful taper is more important than a fast taper. I would not rush it in order to get to the finish line faster at the expense of your health and sanity. 

[[co...]]

Thank you everyone for the advice on holding at current dose. I don't feel like going back up is what I want to do right now bc I've made it this far. I will try to avoid catastrophic thinking and lean on my in laws support system for help with the kids. I went to the site today and planted most of the plants. So I need to take that as a win. Thank you all very much for your thoughtful replies in support, it is greatly appreciated.

[[vo...]]

@[co...]Congratulations on powering through your day to make it successful. Down days are ok too...just trying to be supportive. You're going through a lot.

[[co...]]

3 hours ago, [[v...] said:

@[co...]Congratulations on powering through your day to make it successful. Down days are ok too...just trying to be supportive. You're going through a lot.

thank you so much

[[co...]]

7 hours ago, [[E...] said:

Hi there,

I have little time to reply since my bus stop is coming up soon but I still wanted to say something. I can relate to your despair ❤🩹

Benzo withdrawal is sort of a trial and error. I agree with your thoughts that the hospital wont be the ideal place to get help - there they will either updose and discharge you or taper you off too fast. 

You need to see this as a journey. It will take few months, even a year, even two years.. who knows? When I finally came to terms with this everything became easier. You have been going down for a good amount of mgs in a relatively short time. Sometimes the WD is delayed and kind of "kicks in" double so to speak. I think this is very likely happening to you; also because you have extra stress right now. Very typical, I feel.

Why don't you try holding at your current dose for 2-3 weeks? See what happens? You might very well level out and then you can take it from there; taper slower from there on? 

I agree with other comments about listening to your body. Symptom-led taper. It has worked the best for me. Never cut except you have reach baseline again.

Take good care and good luck with everything.

thank you so much

[[co...]]

5 hours ago, [[G...] said:

Hi @[co...], I was on 2mg/ day for 5+ years. In 4 weeks I had cut that down to 1mg. I made it as far as .5mg and my taper caught up with me. I went back up to .75 and am currently holding there and am feeling much better than I was at .5. I agree that you should go back up to a tolerable dose to allow you to level out and be a functioning parent (I am also a parent) and hopefully a functioning business owner. A successful taper is more important than a fast taper. I would not rush it in order to get to the finish line faster at the expense of your health and sanity. 

thank you so much

[[co...]]

6 hours ago, [[C...] said:

That is very common during withdrawal. It happened to me and many others. Benzo use can suppress emotions and the processing of emotions related to past events. The memories/emotions can feel quite intense. It feels as those this will never go away and this is the "real" you but that is not the case.

Do not worry about understanding these emotions. I do not feel benzo withdrawal is the proper time to address them or psychoanalyze them. For the time being view their intensity as a symptom of withdrawal and remind yourself that you can tackle the significance, if any, of these feelings when you are in the right state of mind to do so.

When you are recovered from withdrawal you may find that theose memories still exist, but now they have absolutely no negative effects on you when you think about them.

thank you so much

[[co...]]

7 hours ago, [[T...] said:

First, you can do this. I jumped 2 1/2 months ago after 20 years on ativan and klonopin and am functioning well. As already stated, I think your taper from 3mg in April is too rapid. I generally stuck to a very slow taper of 5% every two weeks, and sometimes less.  If I were you, I’d increase dosage to whatever you should be at in your taper schedule. Then continue. I also switched from ativan to klonopin due to the longer half life. You may want to do that. Finally, its important to reduce stress and anxiety. If you need to subcontract, do that. I’m also self employed and am taking less and easier work. Good luck!! 

thank you so much

[[co...]]

9 hours ago, [[p...] said:

You said it very well, benzos mask and suppress things that ultimately we need to deal with. Traumas and other issues will have to be addressed, but in my opinion, it’s best to use therapies and modalities once recovery is fully engaged. Withdrawal tends to amply these things, makes them larger than life. I would not try to name them, but allow them  to be there, knowing that it’s the benzo and its withdrawal talking. I also think it’s fine to vent. I would yell at my symptoms in the car while driving at times and my daughter’s dog was the recipient of many rants while I walked him.

I did use deep belly box breathing, and it helped.  Breathe  in for a count of 4, hold for a count of 4, exhale for a count of 4 and hold for a count of 4. Allow the stress to leave with each exhale. 

Many people walked this path before going on to full recovery. Acceptance, patience and belief in healing is what I found necessary. 

thank you so much

[[Bo...]]

Think holding is a very good plan and let your body dictate when you feel ready to make the next reduction. It as others have stated was a huge amount you’ve powered thru to go down almost 2mg of K in a couple months. That is for reference 40mg of Valium equivalent which is a ton, so you’ve msde great progress but you holding here to let your body and brain catch up is very worth it before things get too overwhelming. 
 

yhese guidelines have come out this spring and you might like to have just to understand all this in more detail. I even sent many copies to various drs and pharmacists in my city bc of their lack of knowledge on helping people off these /deprescribing.

stay far away from ERs thru this journey is my advice as well as any meds brought up to help the symptoms as you taper bc they typically can make things worse for people. 
 

keep reaching out here, benzo warriors on Facebook is a great group and there are coaches out there who if you are in a very severe place and need someone to talk/vent to by phone that have been thru it, can be helpful. 
steady wins the race with all this and sometimes switching to a liquid compound can be helpful for people of the shaving and weighing gets too cumbersome. 
usually staying and dancing with the devil/med you know is best… it others switch to longer acting benzos and do ok. Think someone said you’re on Klonopin but if not, if you’re on a shorter acting benzo (Xanax or Ativan), dosing more frequently/your 1mg split out over a few doses thru the day can help any interdose withdrawals you have. 
 

im so sorry you’re in this situation. This is all just inhumane and never should be what someone has to go thru with a prescription medication. You’ve found the great info and support at the start of this which is such a plus….. keep asking questions and lean on those here for support.

this book is very helpful for many and will thankfully be something drs look at now too bc of the ‘maudlsey’ accreditation 

https://www.amazon.com/Maudsley-Guidelines-prescribing-Prescribing/dp/111982298X

[[co...]]

On 19/07/2024 at 12:43, [[T...] said:

First, you can do this. I jumped 2 1/2 months ago after 20 years on ativan and klonopin and am functioning well. As already stated, I think your taper from 3mg in April is too rapid. I generally stuck to a very slow taper of 5% every two weeks, and sometimes less.  If I were you, I’d increase dosage to whatever you should be at in your taper schedule. Then continue. I also switched from ativan to klonopin due to the longer half life. You may want to do that. Finally, its important to reduce stress and anxiety. If you need to subcontract, do that. I’m also self employed and am taking less and easier work. Good luck!! 

I'm more receptive to the idea of going back up to the dose I would be at if having followed the 5% the entire time. Is there a method or reference for me to figure that out easily? I had another hard day of agoraphobia and my kids and job need me.

And is it 5% cuts of the original dose or your current dose?

Edited July 20 by [co...]

[[Ta...]]

Hi, you asked how to figure out your dose if you cut 5% every two week and if its 5% of the original or current dose. Its 5% of the original, and if you started at 3mg in April, and 5% of 3 is .15, then .15 x 4.5 (about 4 and 1/2 months since April 1) is .675, so I get around 2.325 as the dose you should be at. But I made a lot  of assumptions so please verify that. 

I always erred on the side of taking more than less and was often told I tapered too slow. I took my time anyway. Anytime I hurried it I’d have to start over anyway. Just do it right the first time. 

 

[[Em...]]

Hi cookiefan,

Do you feel like you need to updose? When were you last feeling stable? Can you remember at what dose?

I'm not talking about everything perfect but emotionally sort of stable and functioning?

If I were you I would go back to that dose. If you want me to calculate for you where you "would be" give 5% every two weeks I will do it but then need to know if you were following the of original dose or of current dose (both stragegies exist and many reccomend from current dose).

All the best to you, you will get through 💪🏼💪🏼 I have been there and it feels like you're fucked but you are not. Little updose and long hold will fix this, I am sure 🙏🏼

[[or...]]

I agree with Emilia, and I haven't read all the replies you've gotten @[co...] but everyone's body react differently with some similarities.  I don't set a time length for my "holds".  I just know when, after practice, it's time to taper.  It's usually somewhere in the ball-park of 2 weeks, but has been shorter, or longer if need be

I was updosed 2 times very early on, you can see my History if you like here.  Please know I fully understand your circumstances are very different than mine. I'm retired with no major responsibilities, so far.  I have no one around me and I am honestly glad for that now, even though it's been a lonely life at times.

I'm doing super good on just a 5% taper, about every 2 weeks, but again, I only taper when I feel confident about handling the wd sxs that will come for me, and nicely surprised when things get a bit easier and they will for you as well, stick with us, oregonlady ~ Denise