Activation syndrome

[[jo...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

Don't forget that reality often fails to live up to our expectations   It could happen again but since you are expecting it to, that may make it feel a little less jarring and scary.

It could very well be a short-lived aftershock from the mirt cut, and if so it should happen less and less as the days pass (may not even happen again at all).

or the rescue dose the day before.

[[Cr...]]

10 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

or the rescue dose the day before.

True, but with Valium's long half-life and the quick onset/offset of this symptom I think it is more likely related to coming off 50% of the mirt. No matter what the cause actually is, I don't see any reason to have concern. Would a heart checkup help ease your worries? Like, are you more worried it was from withdrawal or that it is was not from withdrawal?

[[jo...]]

More worried its from withdrawl tbh. I'm sure it is in one way or another.

[[Cr...]]

5 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

More worried its from withdrawl tbh. I'm sure it is in one way or another.

And the irony is that if it is from withdrawal you need not worry as it cannot harm you.

I am guessing you are on edge about your rescue dose and being hypervigilant about any signs of a setback. I think you'll be fine. What are your plans for the mirt going forward?

[[jo...]]

I'm not sure. maybe See if I stabalise at this dose.

[[jo...]]

19 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

And the irony is that if it is from withdrawal you need not worry as it cannot harm you.

I am guessing you are on edge about your rescue dose and being hypervigilant about any signs of a setback. I think you'll be fine. What are your plans for the mirt going forward?

Hey Crono, how long until valium leaves the system?

[[Cr...]]

27 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Hey Crono, how long until valium leaves the system?

I believe it is around 10 days for the active components to fully leave the system. With your small dose, it may only take 2 or 3 half-lives to get to a relatively negligible amount of the main active compound. It will still be detectable in your system for weeks due to the metabolite desmethyldiazepam having a long half-life.

[[...]]

2 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Don't forget that reality often fails to live up to our expectations   It could happen again but since you are expecting it to, that may make it feel a little less jarring and scary.

It could very well be a short-lived aftershock from the mirt cut, and if so it should happen less and less as the days pass (may not even happen again at all).

I think I agree with @[Cr...] here.

This state seems familiar to me. Shaking all over and heavy heart beating. I had it once or twice. Not sure but connected it with coming off mirtazapine. First time, was really scared but realized it was manageable in the end and waited out.

[[Bo...]]

Yep I started had severe adrenaline surges , shaking internally and externally , impending doom feel all day I couldn’t shake starting on Mirt and adjusting to liquid compound from tablets after 4 wks on.

this has calmed as I’ve gotten deeper in my taper but as mirt is known to affect adrenaline, the surges are very common. They are scary bc it can be very uncomfortable and sometimes hurts my heart and the sensation is intense. And I’ve dealt with one of the more severe benzo tapers having had I’d guess 90-95% of the symptoms known. 
You are absolutely right, it is def not anxiety or panic but the electrical and adrenaline surges and as a result of mirt acting on the noradrenaline receptors.

the more we can try to do calming things and not get scared by the intense sensations the better but I know it’s hard. As you get more stable, this stuff will lessen and then disappear so hang in there. Do what you feel you can cope with and know you’ll navigate the path that comes of however you proceed forward with this….. we always find our way.

As for the alternating agitation, have heard this a lot from people who have it, alternating days. Mine was more constant and then dropped lower over time and then is a roller coaster now but not as extreme as earlier in the year. Im avg about 5% a month and at 5.45mg from 7.5mg started in Dec and imagine this rate will likely be what I’ll have to stick to as I go down but we will see.

the mirt fb group can be strict but they know their stuff…. Great mods and the group tires best to support if you need the extra help. Hope things calm soon 

[[jo...]]

9 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Yep I started had severe adrenaline surges , shaking internally and externally , impending doom feel all day I couldn’t shake starting on Mirt and adjusting to liquid compound from tablets after 4 wks on.

this has calmed as I’ve gotten deeper in my taper but as mirt is known to affect adrenaline, the surges are very common. They are scary bc it can be very uncomfortable and sometimes hurts my heart and the sensation is intense. And I’ve dealt with one of the more severe benzo tapers having had I’d guess 90-95% of the symptoms known. 
You are absolutely right, it is def not anxiety or panic but the electrical and adrenaline surges and as a result of mirt acting on the noradrenaline receptors.

the more we can try to do calming things and not get scared by the intense sensations the better but I know it’s hard. As you get more stable, this stuff will lessen and then disappear so hang in there. Do what you feel you can cope with and know you’ll navigate the path that comes of however you proceed forward with this….. we always find our way.

As for the alternating agitation, have heard this a lot from people who have it, alternating days. Mine was more constant and then dropped lower over time and then is a roller coaster now but not as extreme as earlier in the year. Im avg about 5% a month and at 5.45mg from 7.5mg started in Dec and imagine this rate will likely be what I’ll have to stick to as I go down but we will see.

the mirt fb group can be strict but they know their stuff…. Great mods and the group tires best to support if you need the extra help. Hope things calm soon 

Thanks @[Bo...]My heart was beating so hard you could hear it outside of my body. Is it like that for you?

[Guest [Do...]]

On 17/07/2024 at 21:29, [[C...] said:

You may feel restless and agitated (unable to sit or stand still) for the first few weeks while taking this drug.

Mirtazapine can also cause other side effects.

This side effect usually does go away when you finally acclimate to the drug. Since you are still experiencing these start-up effects, that may mean it would be easier for you to stop the medication than it would be once your body is used to it (when the start-up effects go away).

Only you know what you can tolerate. If it takes one to two more weeks of feeling like this before the benefits is that acceptable?

Hi, is it worth it to acclimate to a drug when you know is gonna be a night to disacclimate it after?

[[jo...]]

8 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

Hi, is it worth it to acclimate to a drug when you know is gonna be a night to disacclimate it after?

I'm not sure to be honest. I dont know if I can handle another cut at the moment. Are you on mirt?

[[Ma...]]

Hey mate, I just found your thread, sounds like you’re going through what I went through but with Prozac. I feel for you, I’m still struggling too and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. You’re not alone, activation syndrome sucks. I hope you start feeling better.

[[jo...]]

5 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Hey mate, I just found your thread, sounds like you’re going through what I went through but with Prozac. I feel for you, I’m still struggling too and trying to figure out what the heck is going on. You’re not alone, activation syndrome sucks. I hope you start feeling better.

Hi, how long you been on prozac? 

[[Ma...]]

14 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Hi, how long you been on prozac? 

I was on it, on and off for years - probably more than 15 years on and off. I had stabilised the best ever in my life in 2022 and 2023 on 20mg. I worked full time for almost two years harder and better than I ever have in my life. But then there was a family tragedy last year and for some reason I went off my Prozac (I just forgot to take it). Thought I’d use the opportunity to have a break from it cause it had been years. After about 3-5 months the panic attacks started (really severe chemical feeling ones). So then I went back on 20mg Prozac about 2.5 months ago and 7 days into the dose (whilst feeling really good) - the activation syndrome started - it was so bad. Like psych ward bad. I feel ya mate.

Edited July 28 by [Ma...]

[[jo...]]

12 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

I was on it, on and off for years - probably more than 15 years on and off. I had stabilised the best ever in my life in 2022 and 2023 on 20mg. I worked full time for almost two years harder and better than I ever have in my life. But then there was a family tragedy last year and for some reason I went off my Prozac (I just forgot to take it). Thought I’d use the opportunity to have a break from it cause it had been years. After about 3-5 months the panic attacks started (really severe chemical feeling ones). So then I went back on 20mg Prozac about 2.5 months ago and 7 days into the dose (whilst feeling really good) - the activation syndrome started - it was so bad. Like psych ward bad. I feel ya mate.

Wow that sounds complicated mate. Do you think these delayed reactions were because you were on it so long?

[[Ma...]]

6 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Wow that sounds complicated mate. Do you think these delayed reactions were because you were on it so long?

I really do think so, but also I can’t know for sure. Could be my underlying mental illness and unresolved grief etc.

I wish there was a blood test for this stuff!!

[[jo...]]

16 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

I really do think so, but also I can’t know for sure. Could be my underlying mental illness and unresolved grief etc.

I wish there was a blood test for this stuff!!

When did it calm down for you? or has it not. You still on the prozac?

Edited July 28 by [jo...]

[[Ma...]]

2 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

When did it calm down for you? or has it not. You still on the prozac?

I’ve been off the Prozac after the brief reinstatement for 52 days now. My psychiatrist is trying me on Valdoxan/Agomelatine, and it’s been about 38 days on it - but it’s not great atm, I think I get side effects from it also

[[jo...]]

1 minute ago, [[M...] said:

I’ve been off the Prozac after the brief reinstatement for 52 days now. My psychiatrist is trying me on Valdoxan/Agomelatine, and it’s been about 38 days on it - but it’s not great atm, I think I get side effects from it also

Yeah this whole things a cluster f%*&

[[jo...]]

I don't know wether to stay on or jump off. Both fill me with dread. I should have listened to those who warned me about this shit. Although my depression was so bad at the time I started I'm honestly not sure which is worse. Maybe it'll settle. It has been better the last few days apart from an adrenaline surge from hell a couple of days ago. That was a new one. I hope things settle for you soon. @[Ma...]

Edited July 28 by [jo...]

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[j...] said:

I don't know wether to stay on or jump off. Both fill me with dread. I should have listened to those who warned me about this shit. Although my depression was so bad at the time I started I'm honestly not sure which is worse. Maybe it'll settle. It has been better the last few days apart from an adrenaline surge from hell a couple of days ago. That was a new one. I hope things settle for you soon. @[Ma...]

Thank you, I hope things settle for you too. Just wondering, what do the doctors say about how long it takes for your Mirt to work properly?

[[jo...]]

Just now, [[M...] said:

Thank you, I hope things settle for you too. Just wondering, what do the doctors say about how long it takes for your Mirt to work properly?

They just give you the standard babble that you get on the instructions. 2-4 weeks, may cause some agitation upon starting which should subside in a few weeks etc. SOME AGITATION!

They dont even recognise the truth of how serious some of the symptoms these drugs cause are. I tried to explain it to my doctor and he responded by asking if I wanted an ssri. Which are even more notorious for causing activation syndrome.

Unless they have personal experience they just seem to beleive what they read in the leaflets I think. Or they don't give a shit. Their even more in denial about benzos. I got told it cant be benzos that did this to me.

All to common a story. You are lucky if you can find a benzo wise doctor. Or even a wise doctor. They aren't that much use to a lot of us. we are on our own to a large degree.

[[jo...]]

The doctors also know I abused benzos, because I made the mistake of being honest with them, although I prefer the term took without prescription .

That just makes them even less sympathetic and willing to help, or believe you. I have these nightmare visions of me dying and just being written off as a drug addict. Which I'm not.

And even if I was I should still deserve to be helped by the medical system which I have paid plenty of tax towards. The truth is though, abused, prescribed, there isn't that much help for any of us.

[[Ma...]]

36 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

The doctors also know I abused benzos, because I made the mistake of being honest with them, although I prefer the term took without prescription .

That just makes them even less sympathetic and willing to help, or believe you. I have these nightmare visions of me dying and just being written off as a drug addict. Which I'm not.

And even if I was I should still deserve to be helped by the medical system which I have paid plenty of tax towards. The truth is though, abused, prescribed, there isn't that much help for any of us.

That’s rough, sorry to hear that mate. Yep they have no idea, it is only doctors and psychiatrists that have experienced it firsthand that know.