Activation syndrome

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16 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Did you have any problems with the short taper?

Not that i remember of.

[[jo...]]

How should I go down from 15MG do you think?

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12 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

How should I go down from 15MG do you think?

I'd not be too quick. Smth like reduce by 3.75 per week, just in case, allowing for your unsteady at the moment nervous sistem to readjust. I did about that or a bit more quickly. But i'm definitely not an expert. It also depends on an individual.

[[jo...]]

[[PE...]]

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14 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

But as i understand you not at all as bad as the benzo withdrawal?

No, no comparison at all, at least for me. Much easier.

[[PE...]]

[[jo...]]

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16 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Kate, how long had you taken it the first time?

For about 3 months.

[[jo...]]

Were you on a high dose?

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13 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Were you on a high dose?

Yes, i grew it up to 30, quickly.

[[jo...]]

Maybe if I drop down to 7.5 and try to stabalide there and then move up slowly. Does that sound crazy?

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17 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Maybe if I drop down to 7.5 and try to stabalide there and then move up slowly. Does that sound crazy?

If it's me you ask, then no, it doesn't sound crazy. Just don't drop at once, in two passes+.

[[So...]]

I just wanted to pop in and say this has been my experience with mirt as well, unfortunetly.  I wish it wasn't.  It may settle for you after start up effects, it may not, no one can really say for sure for your own personal body.  After 3 weeks you are likely to be dependent a bit on the drug.. I would perhaps message @[Bo...] as I know she went through a similar thing and had to debate coming off around that time as well.  I can say personally, trying to come off of it quickly after 2 months was a huge disaster for me.  Time friend... time is the answer. 

 

And yes, that is the medical communities way of saying "akathisia" usually... restlessness and agitation. 

Edited July 17 by [So...]

[[jo...]]

18 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

I just wanted to pop in and say this has been my experience with mirt as well, unfortunetly.  I wish it wasn't.  It may settle for you after start up effects, it may not, no one can really say for sure for your own personal body.  After 3 weeks you are likely to be dependent a bit on the drug.. I would perhaps message @[Bo...] as I know she went through a similar thing and had to debate coming off around that time as well.  I can say personally, trying to come off of it quickly after 2 months was a huge disaster for me.  Time friend... time is the answer. 

And yes, that is the medical communities way of saying "akathisia" usually... restlessness and agitation. 

Hi @[So...]How would you recommend getting off 15mg at this point? How fast did you come down?

[[jo...]]

I was thinking come off fast but worried. And don't want to suffer this feeling with a to long taper.

[[So...]]

@[jo...] honestly I am not sure.  I know that past 2 months, I couldn't come off rapidly and I have had to do a year and a half long taper now bcus both times i tried to get off quickly, it got a lot worse.  Now I'm finally down to 1mg of it, and I still struggle a lot.  I really wish I would have just stuck to coming off of it more quickly in the beginning, but we always regret the things that we had no control over in this so I can't really allow myself to feel that way.

 

That's why I'd suggest messaging @[Bo...]... I know she was in a similar situation.  You could maybe try going down & see how you feel, but i will say it unfortunetly isn't always possible to put the pieces back together after we make changes.  On the other hand, I do know even surviving antidepressants reccomends a quicker taper for adverse reactions.  Perhaps you could post there?  I'm so sorry.  I never like to demonize drugs on here unless someone specifically asks, and I don't really think drugs are evil we are all differennt: all I can say is my experience.  For me personally the mirt has been even worse than the benzos for sure, and there is deffinetly a correlation I see between mirt and benzo withdrawal with the more challenging situations.. that one and Seroquel.

[[jo...]]

10 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

@[jo...] honestly I am not sure.  I know that past 2 months, I couldn't come off rapidly and I have had to do a year and a half long taper now bcus both times i tried to get off quickly, it got a lot worse.  Now I'm finally down to 1mg of it, and I still struggle a lot.  I really wish I would have just stuck to coming off of it more quickly in the beginning, but we always regret the things that we had no control over in this so I can't really allow myself to feel that way.

That's why I'd suggest messaging @[Bo...]... I know she was in a similar situation.  You could maybe try going down & see how you feel, but i will say it unfortunetly isn't always possible to put the pieces back together after we make changes.  On the other hand, I do know even surviving antidepressants reccomends a quicker taper for adverse reactions.  Perhaps you could post there?  I'm so sorry.  I never like to demonize drugs on here unless someone specifically asks, and I don't really think drugs are evil we are all differennt: all I can say is my experience.  For me personally the mirt has been even worse than the benzos for sure, and there is deffinetly a correlation I see between mirt and benzo withdrawal with the more challenging situations.. that one and Seroquel.

How bad was your AKA? did it subside as you tapered?

[[So...]]

To be honest with you, I still go through bad bouts of it, I've had a very severe time but things have been up and down... I think I will probably still need another year or two to really shake it.  It's gotten easier/better in some ways though.  Everyone is different tho, so certainly don't compare your experience to mine.  I am pretty sure I am genetically predisposed to it since I'm pretty sure I had it when I was a teenager as well.  Seems I am very sensitive to meds. 

[[Bo...]]

This is solely what I’ve learned thru mirt board here (it’s been archived) and the mirt Facebook groups. Once you hit 4 weeks on mirt that’s usually when the body has gotten used to it for many and stuck to do a slow taper at that point. Some who haven’t been on any other meds or are maybe on a benzo and not off it yet can come off fairly quickly after maybe 4-8 weeks having already had signs of aka and other side effects been able to do a quick taper. 
This is what I observed bc I was in similar spot in December however I reached the 4 week marker and eas in the middle of Covid and was out of my mind with aka terribly 24/7 and rage started building after 3 weeks on and was too scared to stop quickly. I also was only 3 mo off K at that point and didn’t want to risk the absolute hell I went thru the first couple months off K, so I was stuck,

if you truly have been on for 14 days then a quick step down in increments every couple few days from 15- 7.5 to 3,85 to 1.8 to 0 is what people have done but getting to the four week marker is for some reason a point you don’t want to really get past. This coming from Dr Mark Horowitz too who is one of the top researchers of ADs in the world and his maudsley deprescriving book says exactly this- if you’ve been on mirt for a few weeks don’t taper longer than you have been on it.

some people can have even a rough time at two weeks on, but usually coming off quickly that point is beneficial in the long run. Everyone is different though. Some might have a very rough time and you have to see maybe you can at least get a lot lower and then taper from there over time.

I don’t know your benzo story so if you’re fresh off benzos in the last 6 mo for some reason people have a rough time with mirt after being off benzos. Even says it in Marks book this is the med to shy away from post benzos. Have seen it discussed a lot and mentioned a lot. 
if people are still on their benzo it has been helpful for some to help sleep or aka but something about post benzo trying that can be very difficult.

i know one guy who tried mirt a year off for sleep and aka and hit tolerance within  2 months and he tapered from 3.75mg over 2 months or so and it didn’t miss his symptoms worse to go that fast, however he had severe aka and symptoms from benzo CT. Bit bc it didn’t make anything worse he came off quickly even though was on for a couple months.

im sorry you have this decision to make…. It can be very hard to know what to do but if your body is showing this, it saying I don’t like this and aka especially. Try to do what your body can tolerate but time is critical for this unfortunately. 

 

 

[[Bo...]]

https://www.amazon.com/Maudsley-Guidelines-prescribing-Prescribing/dp/111982298X

[[jo...]]

4 hours ago, [[B...] said:

This is solely what I’ve learned thru mirt board here (it’s been archived) and the mirt Facebook groups. Once you hit 4 weeks on mirt that’s usually when the body has gotten used to it for many and stuck to do a slow taper at that point. Some who haven’t been on any other meds or are maybe on a benzo and not off it yet can come off fairly quickly after maybe 4-8 weeks having already had signs of aka and other side effects been able to do a quick taper. 
This is what I observed bc I was in similar spot in December however I reached the 4 week marker and eas in the middle of Covid and was out of my mind with aka terribly 24/7 and rage started building after 3 weeks on and was too scared to stop quickly. I also was only 3 mo off K at that point and didn’t want to risk the absolute hell I went thru the first couple months off K, so I was stuck,

if you truly have been on for 14 days then a quick step down in increments every couple few days from 15- 7.5 to 3,85 to 1.8 to 0 is what people have done but getting to the four week marker is for some reason a point you don’t want to really get past. This coming from Dr Mark Horowitz too who is one of the top researchers of ADs in the world and his maudsley deprescriving book says exactly this- if you’ve been on mirt for a few weeks don’t taper longer than you have been on it.

some people can have even a rough time at two weeks on, but usually coming off quickly that point is beneficial in the long run. Everyone is different though. Some might have a very rough time and you have to see maybe you can at least get a lot lower and then taper from there over time.

I don’t know your benzo story so if you’re fresh off benzos in the last 6 mo for some reason people have a rough time with mirt after being off benzos. Even says it in Marks book this is the med to shy away from post benzos. Have seen it discussed a lot and mentioned a lot. 
if people are still on their benzo it has been helpful for some to help sleep or aka but something about post benzo trying that can be very difficult.

i know one guy who tried mirt a year off for sleep and aka and hit tolerance within  2 months and he tapered from 3.75mg over 2 months or so and it didn’t miss his symptoms worse to go that fast, however he had severe aka and symptoms from benzo CT. Bit bc it didn’t make anything worse he came off quickly even though was on for a couple months.

im sorry you have this decision to make…. It can be very hard to know what to do but if your body is showing this, it saying I don’t like this and aka especially. Try to do what your body can tolerate but time is critical for this unfortunately. 

But these kind of start up effects are true of any AD though aren't they? I'm not suffering agitation 24/7 like you were and I'm not sure it's aka as I'm not pacing etc. 

[[jo...]]

it's helping me sleep and helping with depression to I think. How did your freind know they'd reached tolorance at two months if they already had so many symptoms?

Edited July 20 by [jo...]

[[jo...]]

I get the resstlessness in the afternoon for around 5 hours then it dies down. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm not sure I want to taper as that could make me worse and mabey it's start up affects and will ease in the next week or so. I remember when I started sertraline a few years back it was even worse than this but evened out.

[[jo...]]

13 hours ago, [[B...] said:

if you truly have been on for 14 days then a quick step down in increments every couple few days from 15- 7.5 to 3,85 to 1.8 to 0

Hi @[Bo...] So you think this is a good reduction rate? Ive been on 7.5 for 4 days then jumped up to 15mg for 2 weeks.