Activation syndrome

[[...]]

16 hours ago, [[B...] said:

You had long covid too? Did/you you get fatigue and PEM as well? 
 

my chemical sensitivities started this year only. 
 

each day of Benzo withdrawal puts me into PEM. I’m in that state constantly.

if only my usual level of patience and self control would return I would feel confident that I could through this:-( for now I’m just living in the Hope that I will get some restorative sleep the next night and not wake up confused, and that the akathisia will just stop

Hi, Bunny:) Yes, i had long covid too and was also in mild benzo tolerance then. After a few months of feeling unwell and fatigued my tolerance grew through the roof and my reaction to lots off medications changed to unbearable. Whatever i tried made me much worse. Actually, i'm just beginning to realise what was going on. Doctors were clueless at that time.

Sorry i don't know what PEM means, suppose i had it too. I could hardly walk then and felt kind of strong inner restlessness all the time for quite a while. 

I'm sure your usual level of patience and self control is on the way back. I think i understand what you mean. Just healing to us all!

[[Bu...]]

[[jo...]]

Made another 50% Mirtazapine cut last night. Starting to feel some weird stuff after the first part of the day not being so bad. down from 7.5 to 3.25. Been on a little under a month. Keep getting tempted to just jump off. I know people say not to taper longer than you've been on if you've been on less than a month. Effectively I started tapering 10 days ago so does that mean not to make my taper more than 3 weeks? A bit confused by that. Thanks!

[[jo...]]

Any thoughts? At this point (1month) do I jump or slow it down? And if I slow it down how do I get those low doses?

[[jo...]]

On 23/07/2024 at 21:06, [[P...] said:

Yes very quick. I took 12mg for 2-3 days, and then drop to 9-8 for like 4 weeks. I got scale so it was quite easy to take the right dosage. I would try 12mg and then you see if the feeling get better. I feel a instant reliefe from dropping down

Hi Paul What scale do you use?

[[jo...]]

On 29/07/2024 at 01:01, [[B...] said:

Ya the adrenaline surges and then the heartbeat pounding in ears, head outside body etc (people have various versions) can be a mirt and also a benzo thing. 
I hope things calm some for you soon.

if you taper down liquid is helpful instead of shaving and weighing but that works too for mirt (although the mirt fb group is against it). They have detailed guides on their group how to make your own suspension with water and maple syrup. 
I used a pharmacy compound I used for my Klonopin taper. 
Abe last with liquid I can do .01mg reductions every day or ever few days depending how I am doing. I am so sensitized from various meds I was run thru so the ability to make very tiny reductions wihh the syringes helps 

hoping your body starts to level out soon and I think you can try to see maybe how a 10% reduction goes next drop and if that is fine you might be able to work off this at a decent speed. But just know it can have a bit of a lag time when the cuts hit for mirt so just don’t get too ahead of yourself….. but it symptoms are not there at all as you drop 10% that’s a good sign. Some people don’t have issues coming down off at all. 
 

Hi @[Bo...] How do you get the liquid?

[[Bo...]]

I use a compound from a pharmacy but most use that 50% water and 50% maple syrup to make their own suspension I sent in the other thread. People say it is easy once you get thru a couple batches ….

Just my opinion but maybe try to get down to 1.875mg in the next few days given your at the month mark and that’s when most say the body becomes physically dependent and people have to resort to the slower tapers. 
unfortunately maudsley doesn’t say exact time frames for mirt of how long when only on for a few weeks but I do know people hitting 7/8 weeks on had to do long tapers. Heck me being on four weeks didn’t let me go quick.
 

So if you’re trying to get down quickly still might see if you can do that pretty soon…. If you don’t feel ready , you can try a 10% reduction and see how that goes. This is so hard trying to navigate and figure out ahead of time what’s best, but you’re doing great. 

[[jo...]]

On 03/08/2024 at 05:40, [[B...] said:

I use a compound from a pharmacy but most use that 50% water and 50% maple syrup to make their own suspension I sent in the other thread. People say it is easy once you get thru a couple batches ….

Just my opinion but maybe try to get down to 1.875mg in the next few days given your at the month mark and that’s when most say the body becomes physically dependent and people have to resort to the slower tapers. 
unfortunately maudsley doesn’t say exact time frames for mirt of how long when only on for a few weeks but I do know people hitting 7/8 weeks on had to do long tapers. Heck me being on four weeks didn’t let me go quick.
 

So if you’re trying to get down quickly still might see if you can do that pretty soon…. If you don’t feel ready , you can try a 10% reduction and see how that goes. This is so hard trying to navigate and figure out ahead of time what’s best, but you’re doing great. 

Hi @[Bo...] Do you have to involve your Doctor to get a compound? I'm honestly not in the frame of mind to do the Mayple syrup thing. I'm down to 3.25 but struggling. Yesterday was one of the roughest days in this whole thing so I'm not sure I should cut 50% again any time soon. It's just so hard to get doctors on board. I can't get them to give me the liquid version even though they do it in the UK. He just gave me the dissolveable.

[[Pa...]]

On 03/08/2024 at 03:01, [[j...] said:

Hi Paul What scale do you use?

Hi Jon,

Just buy a scale that can weigh 0,01mg steps.

And then do the maths with your tablets. I got 30mg tablets and their weight is 0,300g.

So i know 0,10g is like 1mg. So its very easy to do the right dosage.

[[jo...]]

33 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Hi Jon,

Just buy a scale that can weigh 0,01mg steps.

And then do the maths with your tablets. I got 30mg tablets and their weight is 0,300g.

So i know 0,10g is like 1mg. So its very easy to do the right dosage.

Dont have much money for a scale. Are they expensive?

[[Pa...]]

7 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Dont have much money for a scale. Are they expensive?

No i just spend 25€

[[jo...]]

Just now, [[P...] said:

No i just spend 25€

Thanks mate!

[[jo...]]

On 31/07/2024 at 04:43, [[B...] said:

At this point since you are trying to come off quickly I think eyeballing it as you’ve done bc you don’t need to be so exact of 3.75mg bc you’re then going to zero.

Hi @[Bo...] Why wouldn't it matter if I was going to Zero? I only ask because I am now considering going slower. Big cuts hurt.

[[jo...]]

When tablets are film coated does that have any implications when chopping them crushing them etc?

[[jo...]]

And are they appropriate for water tapering?

Edited August 4 by [jo...]

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[j...] said:

When tablets are film coated does that have any implications when chopping them crushing them etc?

I had never a problem with it. The only thing i realise the effect comes a liitle bit sooner without the coated Film when u crushed it. But for me thats welcome

[[Bo...]]

Ok you need to def pick an option and stick with it bc changing formulations can be rough on our systems so you want to do it one time.

If your Dr prescribed the compound liquid ask if it will be with using the same manufacturer you’re taking right now. 
changing manufacturers can be rough so just a heads up ( I changed twice when I was at beginning of this).

if you change to liquid do a crossover in steps bc going straight over can be hard on the body… the maudsley deprescribing manual states all of this.

I did mine in halves and it was very rough…. Don’t change dosage for a week or two before and then wait to cut dose at least two weeks after you’ve changed to liquid compound.

if you make your own suspension at least you’d be using the same tablets your body knows already so that’s the Benefit.

My compounded uses pure mirt powder, doesn’t crush pills so my system got rocked changing over but I stuck it out and glad I did bc I need the gradual micro taper option to go down .01mg a day.

my compounder made it 1mL to 1mg equivalent so it’s easy to know what to take every night.

if you’re slowing things down then, yes accuracy matters. only reason I said before is if you were trying to get down to 0 by 30-35 days on it doesn’t matter exactly where you’re at dose wise just get off by 35 days.

So now educate yourself on the options since you’re going the slower route snd make sure to read about crossover etc in maudsley book and you’ll be good. Mirt Facebook group is very helpful if you have questions too…. They have details in their guides that are very through, videos etc.

hope things stay manageable for you! It’s good you at least got to the 3’s. I won’t be rheee likely til spring next year. 

[[jo...]]

6 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Ok you need to def pick an option and stick with it bc changing formulations can be rough on our systems so you want to do it one time.

If your Dr prescribed the compound liquid ask if it will be with using the same manufacturer you’re taking right now. 
changing manufacturers can be rough so just a heads up ( I changed twice when I was at beginning of this).

if you change to liquid do a crossover in steps bc going straight over can be hard on the body… the maudsley deprescribing manual states all of this.

I did mine in halves and it was very rough…. Don’t change dosage for a week or two before and then wait to cut dose at least two weeks after you’ve changed to liquid compound.

if you make your own suspension at least you’d be using the same tablets your body knows already so that’s the Benefit.

My compounded uses pure mirt powder, doesn’t crush pills so my system got rocked changing over but I stuck it out and glad I did bc I need the gradual micro taper option to go down .01mg a day.

my compounder made it 1mL to 1mg equivalent so it’s easy to know what to take every night.

if you’re slowing things down then, yes accuracy matters. only reason I said before is if you were trying to get down to 0 by 30-35 days on it doesn’t matter exactly where you’re at dose wise just get off by 35 days.

So now educate yourself on the options since you’re going the slower route snd make sure to read about crossover etc in maudsley book and you’ll be good. Mirt Facebook group is very helpful if you have questions too…. They have details in their guides that are very through, videos etc.

hope things stay manageable for you! It’s good you at least got to the 3’s. I won’t be rheee likely til spring next year. 

Thanks for that @[Bo...] Youve been very helpful. Can I just ask why 30-35 days? My doctor is possibly going to cut me off saying there wont be any withdrawl because it's such a low dose etc. I'm not even sure a long taper will be an option. I'm on 3.25 atm. Ive been on altogether around 35/36 days.

[[jo...]]

1 minute ago, [[j...] said:

Thanks for that @[Bo...] Youve been very helpful. Can I just ask why 30-35 days? My doctor is possibly going to cut me off saying there wont be any withdrawl because it's such a low dose etc. I'm not even sure a long taper will be an option. I'm on 3.25 atm. Ive been on altogether around 35/36 days.

I dont think I can get the liquid.

[[jo...]]

Been given a different brand of tablet. How much does that matter?

[[jo...]]

Ok I'm down to 3.25 for a week and not doing well. I really want this stuff out of my system. Whats the best way off? the longer I'm on it the worse I fear it's going to get. Been on around 5 weeks.

Edited August 8 by [jo...]

[[jo...]]

For someone who's been on this length of time what would be the recomended reduction rate. 1mg every 14 days?

[[...]]

2 hours ago, [[j...] said:

the longer I'm on it the worse I fear it's going to get. 

I think the sooner you stop, the better because your chemical benzo induced fear seems to be getting on you more than mirt itself. It was the same with my benzo friend coming off trazadone while withdrawing. Even 5 weeks isn't that long to expect too much of consequences. Of course, it's just my opinion and i'm really sorry for you struggling that much, Jonwil. 

I'd cut in half and quit in a week or do 1mg a week. Smth like this.

How are you in general? What are the worst symptoms? 

 

 

[[jo...]]

[[...]]

26 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Hi @[...] It's not the benzo stuff thats my main problem at the moment I have Akathisia from the mirt. Severe agitation. Sometimes I'm pacing sometimes not. But some days are really bad. Tinitus strong gut anxiety which wasn't there before.

I can truly relate to tinnitus caused by mirt. I have it too and right now... As for other stuff, if you think all the issues been caused by the ad, why hold on it that long? 5 months is hardly enough for your body to fully adjust to mirt. It'd be harder to reduce if you stopped feeling its side effects, your body would be really adjusted then, no? Just trying to help to decide what is better since there are no one else around.