Windows and Waves

[[jo...]]

I'm going through a wave now that is approaching 7 weeks with no real windows to speak of. I have had windows and shorter waves than this before and was just interested in starting a thred on the subject. Anyone have a stable pattern? Are peoples patterns all over the place in terms of length and severity? Do you even get windows? Thanks.

[[Kr...]]

@[jo...]many questions you have been asking are covered in the Ashton manual. You might benefit from reading it so you don’t drive yourself nuts with seeking timelines and symptoms.

you can google it. It’s very good.

[[jo...]]

I've read the Ashton Manual I was just more interested in a discussion about it with other people who are going through it and hearing their experiences.

[[Kr...]]

@[jo...]i can’t recall if you work with a benzo coach at all. Sometimes that can be a good resource to get some information about what patterns they have seen from their clients.

 

[[Br...]]

@[jo...] I'm so sorry you're suffering in a long wave. One of the most maddening things about benzo withdrawal is how erratic the path is to healing.  True there is a general pattern of windows and waves but beyond that, there is really no predictable pattern. We say it all the time, but healing isn't linear.  Instead it zigs and zags, stops & starts, all with no rhyme or reason.  Generally there is no way to predict when a wave will happen or how long it will last.  We know that stressors of all kinds can trigger an uptick in symptoms (a wave).  But often we can't point to a cause.  

When I was just short of two years post jump I had to have surgery.  After the surgery I went into a wave that went on for about 2 months.  There's no doubt in my mind that it was caused by the stress of going through surgery and recuperation.  My withdrawal symptoms were miserable.  Over time the wave let up and I started a more straight trajectory toward recovery.

I hope your wave lets up soon.

[[jo...]]

Yeah it's been going on since I moved in with a family member. I do feel more stressed. Not much choice though so I guess it's just going to be like this.

[[Cr...]]

5 hours ago, [[j...] said:

Are peoples patterns all over the place in terms of length and severity? Do you even get windows? Thanks.

Yes. While there might be some general patterns most of the window/waves timeline similarities can be due to coincidence. If you start a thread titled "Who got hit hard at month 5?" then inevitably you will get a lot of responses from people that just so happened to get waves that month. It would make month 5 seem like a sure bet to get a wave to members currently less than 5 months into recovery.

The thing is, the responses would probably be the same no matter which pre-protracted month number you chose based on the law of averages. My fear for you @[jo...] is that any response you get could potentially make you feel worse.

If someone told you they never had waves last more than 5 weeks, that could make it feel like you are worse off than everyone and not going to get better. If many people tell you they got windows right at 8 weeks, that could set you up for fear and disappointment if 8 weeks comes with no improvement. If people tell you their worst waves lasted 16 weeks before a window that could make you worry about having to deal with 9 more weeks of this. So whether other peoples window/waves patterns are less than, equal to, or greater than your pattern that knowledge may not provide relief and can't predict anything for you.

I know the goal is to make it day by day, and sometimes we get the will to continue on each day by finding any strands of hope scattered about. 

As for me, i had long waves, short waves, severe waves, mild waves, etc.. throughout my withdrawal. Windows were harder to identify because I never counted 'not being in a wave' as a window for myself personally. So while waves did eventually end, more often than not, life just became far more tolerable. I do recall moments where I felt almost normal, so those were probably my windows.

[[jo...]]

I had two weeks of feeling almost normal. I'd kill for that now. I think I have to work out a way of changing my living situation. I do better alone I think.

[[Cr...]]

9 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

I had two weeks of feeling almost normal. I'd kill for that now. I think I have to work out a way of changing my living situation. I do better alone I think.

We are really vulnerable to stress during recovery. Stress won't set you back but it's negative effects are going to be more pronounced during this time.

If it makes you feel any better, benzo withdrawal often puts many people in a constant state of stress just due to the nature of the beast. Whether it be finances from not being able to work, difficult relations with family due to their ignorance and our reclusiveness, or stress from unrelenting physical/mental symptoms not letting up.... people still do recover even when such circumstances kept them in a high state of stress for a long time.

If you can change your circumstance for the better, do so. If you can't, all you can do is try your best to accept the current living/life situation the best you can. Just don't try to dwell on the idea that you won't heal because you are in a stressful situation that you can't escape.

[[jo...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

Stress won't set you back

I'm forever reading people saying stress set them back. I thought it was one of the main culprits. I'm expecting some big stressful life events too. Bereavements. Cant help catastrophising those in my head. How I'm gonna be sent back to acute and not be able to deal with them etc. Nightmare situation. That's life though, just have to find a way. 

[[Cr...]]

25 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

I'm forever reading people saying stress set them back. I thought it was one of the main culprits. I'm expecting some big stressful life events too. Bereavements. Cant help catastrophising those in my head. How I'm gonna be sent back to acute and not be able to deal with them etc. Nightmare situation. That's life though, just have to find a way. 

Stress does not do what benzos and alcohol do to our receptors or you would feel calm from stress.

I have experienced stress in my life before benzos and alcohol were a factor. Since I did not know how to manage stress, I had periods where  stressful events left me fighting anxiety, insomnia, rapid heart rate, GI issues, burning skin, etc..for many weeks or months afterwards. Now apply those same stressful events to a post-benzo sensitive nervous system and the symptoms would probably feel even more intense.

All I know is that my healing came when I was in one of the most stressful periods of my life in regards to relationships, finances, and future prospects. 

Stressful events can be like getting slapped when you have a sunburn. You feel the instant pain and often feel it for awhile afterwards. Benzo withdrawal is like a sunburn to the cns(skin), any stressful event (slap) will always make pain (symptoms) much more intense until it is healed, but it won't slow down the true recovery. Only more UV rays (benzos) can do that.

Even after recovery, slaps will still hurt if you don't learn to manage pain and your reaction to it (coping skills for stress).

Telling people they must avoid stress to recover and avoid setbacks is naive and harmful in my view.

 

[[jo...]]

Well said as always. And I feel a little bit better for hearing it. 

[[Kr...]]

1 hour ago, [[C...] said:

Yes. While there might be some general patterns most of the window/waves timeline similarities can be due to coincidence. If you start a thread titled "Who got hit hard at month 5?" then inevitably you will get a lot of responses from people that just so happened to get waves that month. It would make month 5 seem like a sure bet to get a wave to members currently less than 5 months into recovery.

The thing is, the responses would probably be the same no matter which pre-protracted month number you chose based on the law of averages. My fear for you @[jo...] is that any response you get could potentially make you feel worse.

If someone told you they never had waves last more than 5 weeks, that could make it feel like you are worse off than everyone and not going to get better. If many people tell you they got windows right at 8 weeks, that could set you up for fear and disappointment if 8 weeks comes with no improvement. If people tell you their worst waves lasted 16 weeks before a window that could make you worry about having to deal with 9 more weeks of this. So whether other peoples window/waves patterns are less than, equal to, or greater than your pattern that knowledge may not provide relief and can't predict anything for you.

I know the goal is to make it day by day, and sometimes we get the will to continue on each day by finding any strands of hope scattered about. 

As for me, i had long waves, short waves, severe waves, mild waves, etc.. throughout my withdrawal. Windows were harder to identify because I never counted 'not being in a wave' as a window for myself personally. So while waves did eventually end, more often than not, life just became far more tolerable. I do recall moments where I felt almost normal, so those were probably my windows.

Well stated. 

[[Kr...]]

35 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Telling people they must avoid stress to recover and avoid setbacks is naive and harmful in my view.

Definitely!!!👍 

[[Sh...]]

There is no stable pattern.

[[je...]]

Hi @[Sh...]

Welome to BenzoBuddies! Please feel welcome to start a thread of your own if you need support.

[[he...]]

On 13/07/2024 at 02:13, [[j...] said:

I'm forever reading people saying stress set them back. I thought it was one of the main culprits. I'm expecting some big stressful life events too. Bereavements. Cant help catastrophising those in my head. How I'm gonna be sent back to acute and not be able to deal with them etc. Nightmare situation. That's life though, just have to find a way. 

If it helps... i have had MAJOR life events and other super stressful things, moving with a kid all by myself packing up and having contractors work on the new place then kid got dangerous lung bacteria and was super ill for a month (i got it too but wayless bad), and i had one of my best and longest windows!!! Like 3 or 4 months of being mostly ok while alnost crying from stress and breaking down from it all, but benzo wise i almost felt ready for a succes story. Ofcourse got slammed randomly later but i expected to get slammed during the massive stress but didnt. Then a month long overseas trip alone with kid involving long overseas flights, car rental for long drives and visiting family, i was sooooo stressed about not being able to do it because benzo waves but i had a big window, lasted 2,5 months! Just a few mildly bad days here and there. And also days i HAD to go to the office instead of working from home, for "important" stuff i had tomshow.my face for id be panicking i would get a benzo wave night or day but no id be fine!!!!!

Has been like this since acute was over, like 4+ months out, though the big windows more after the first year.and even better after the 2nd. Though the waves are still very brutal and crushing and very frequent 🙁

It seems.very random for me for the most part... sometimes i think there is a trigger, chemical smells, ingredients, doing too much but then other times i do the same and i am fine... no rhyme or reason.

Edited August 16 by [he...]