Being benzo free is ideal but not sure if possible (for myself)

[[to...]]

I've been on benzos for about 15 years.

I'm on diazepam 6mg/day.  I switched from Clonazepam to Diazepam a few years ago due to common advice.  I don't feel it helped with withdrawal, but it helped with interdose.  I guess it'd also help if I were ever forced to cold turkey.

I want to be off this drug but once I go under 4.5mg or so I am not functional.   I've tried repeatedly.  Going below that amount last time made me so panicky it created issues where I almost went to jail or homeless a few times, and also ended up in the psych ward 3 times.  I didn't break any laws but apparently I was close.  Anyway, it was a nightmare.  It simply wasn't worth it.  If I stay at 5-6mg I'm relatively ok.  I can earn about a poverty wage and live with family, but my family is old. 

Not really so sure what to do.  At some point I may be forced off, at which point I want to assure two thing, that I
1. Don't die from withdrawal
2. Don't end up institutionalized

I already have benzo use or withdrawal related medical issues.  Particularly dysautonomia which makes stress affect my physiology more than usual.  My body also can't handle high temperatures, which is dangerous.

I don't really now what to do.  I know of some who just stay on a low dose their entire lives.  For now my plan is to just stay on them indefinitely, I don't really feel I have a choice.  I've seen people get shipped off to group homes or become homeless in these situations but at least now I'm relatively stable and earning money, so it's not that bad for me right now. I just know it can get a lot worse, and there doesn't seem to be a bottom to suffering lol.  I also worry about my psych retiring, but he also has an entire practice that isn't likely to just shut down randomly, and I guess others in his practice might be similar.

I think I will be ok.  I am not in crisis.  I just wanted to get all that off my chest.
 

Edited June 5 by [to...]

[[Le...]]

Your concerns are shared by most everyone and many have made the choice to recover. Making sure you can keep your life together if you want to make the attempt is very important. some people here will likely be able to give practical advice there that may help. There are options. Do you want to attempt to make a plan?

Edited June 5 by [Le...]

[[Id...]]

6 hours ago, [[t...] said:

I also worry about my psych retiring, but he also has an entire practice that isn't likely to just shut down randomly, and I guess others in his practice might be similar.

I feel you. Make sure to explain this to your provider. Make sure to compile a detailed document of what happened to you when you down dosed and have more than a copy of it to give to who you trust. Unfortunately things can change and this is a better option to feel secure. Also if tolerance hits (and if things become difficult to explain) you you could not be a blank page for other doctors that you might need.

 I deeply wish you all the best 

[[je...]]

I am sorry you’re in this position. It seems like you don’t have any other choice but to stay on it indefinitely. You need to be functional and have some quality of life. 

And by the sounds of it, you do seem to have a steady supply for the future. If this is how it has to be, then give yourself grace and allow yourself to enjoy life. You’ve been through enough already.

[[Le...]]

You do have a choice. Choose and get help if you need it. There is lots here. 

[[to...]]

33 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

I am sorry you’re in this position. It seems like you don’t have any other choice but to stay on it indefinitely. You need to be functional and have some quality of life. 

And by the sounds of it, you do seem to have a steady supply for the future. If this is how it has to be, then give yourself grace and allow yourself to enjoy life. You’ve been through enough already.

Yes, luckily my psychiatrist seems to not be threatening withdrawal.  And he saw how bad I got last time.   I might try to bring it up to him.  He does have empathy/compassion, and admitted to me he has (never) been able to help a long-term user withdrawal entirely.  Years ago he brought up rehab as an option but stopped doing that.  Every other doctor, including GP, just says "rehab" like a reflex every time I bring it up.  So it's just me and my psychiatrist keeping me going.

It'll all work out.  I am just done trying to withdrawal.  That doesn't mean it's not worth it for those who want to try of course.  I did withdrawal quite a bit and since joining this forum or related ones, from around the equivalent of 40-80mg valium to 6

 

Edited June 5 by [to...]

[[Le...]]

that is amazing. every consider bringing a withdrawal manual like the ashton manual to that doctor that seems aware and seeing if they will help try?

Edited June 5 by [Le...]

[[Le...]]

where in the world are you?

[[to...]]

Just now, [[L...] said:

that is amazing. every consider bring a withdrawal manual like the ashton manual to that doctor that seems aware and seeing if they will help try?

I did, he was open to it.  We withdrew me from the equivalent of 40-80mg V to 6.  that is good and the best I can do I think, at least indefinitely

[[Le...]]

2 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

I did, he was open to it.  We withdrew me from the equivalent of 40-80mg V to 6.  that is good and the best I can do I think, at least indefinitely

I can make no choice for you and do not understand you as well as you do. Maybe you will choose to try sometime and if that isnt today then I support you. 

I am very very impressed by what you did already though. 

Edited June 5 by [Le...]

[[je...]]

16 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

that is amazing. every consider bringing a withdrawal manual like the ashton manual to that doctor that seems aware and seeing if they will help try?

 

The problem is not the doctor or the taper. The problem is the severity of the symptoms that renders @[to...] non functional, homeless, in jail or the psych ward - multiple times. That’s no way to live. Some people have a better quality of life on benzos. If you know the risks and you make an informed decision then sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks.

You did so well in reducing your dose @[to...]! 

[[Le...]]

There is never a long term benefit to these drugs. Noone these days will claim a therapeutic benefit from long term use. the question is whether it is practical, possible, or if the person in this position desires to try. I will support their choice and help if I can. There definately isnt a better quality of life on benzos ever in the long term. 

[[to...]]

11 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

There is never a long term benefit to these drugs. Noone these days will claim a therapeutic benefit from long term use. the question is whether it is practical, possible, or if the person in this position desires to try. I will support their choice and help if I can. There definately isnt a better quality of life on benzos ever in the long term. 

I was in better shape before the benzos in many if not all respects. But I believe everything happens for a reason and I'm not one to lament about the past.  I've seen people live their entire lives on benzos and do ok, even live normal lives, and also seen people get off entirely, and where it was worth every amount of effort.  Right now the negatives outweigh the positives for myself

Edited June 5 by [to...]

[[Le...]]

Just now, [[t...] said:

I was in better shape before the benzos in many if not all respects. But I believe everything happens for a reason and I'm not one to lament about the past.  I've seen people live their entire lives on benzos and do ok, even live normal lives, and also seen people get off entirely, and where it was worth every amount of effort.  Right now the negatives outweigh the positives for myself

i totally respect your choice. 

[[Ma...]]

35 minutes ago, [[t...] said:

I did, he was open to it.  We withdrew me from the equivalent of 40-80mg V to 6.  that is good and the best I can do I think, at least indefinitely

Congratulations! 

[[ba...]]

I validate your experience. I support your choice. Only you know what is best for you. 

[[je...]]

24 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

There is never a long term benefit to these drugs. Noone these days will claim a therapeutic benefit from long term use. the question is whether it is practical, possible, or if the person in this position desires to try. I will support their choice and help if I can. There definately isnt a better quality of life on benzos ever in the long term. 

Totally disagree. You cannot talk in absolutes such as “never” or “ever”. Are you a doctor? Have you lived your entire life on benzos? If not then you cannot concIude that there is no better quality of life ever. I know someone who was on benzos for 40 years till death, no problems whatsoever and very happy. 

I’m not advocating for it, but you cannot apply absolutes to life. 

[[to...]]

Not happy though that my psych can effectively ruin my life if he pleases.  I wish I knew of other psychiatrists in my state.  The one who got me on benzos was a guy in a hospital, a different guy, 15 years ago, who I haven't seen since.  Then my regular psych at the time kept me on them and he told me they weren't habit forming.  I haven't seen that psych in over a decade and he was the one I got the dependence under.

My current psych is chill and very understanding.  But honestly I don't have the energy to even switch psychs if I had to.  If he ever drops me I'd probably just try to "do or die" the rehab thing.

Edited June 5 by [to...]

[[je...]]

1 hour ago, [[t...] said:

Not happy though that my psych can effectively ruin my life if he pleases.  I wish I knew of other psychiatrists in my state.  The one who got me on benzos was a guy in a hospital, a different guy, 15 years ago, who I haven't seen since.  Then my regular psych at the time kept me on them and he told me they weren't habit forming.  I haven't seen that psych in over a decade and he was the one I got the dependence under.

My current psych is chill and very understanding.  But honestly I don't have the energy to even switch psychs if I had to.  If he ever drops me I'd probably just try to "do or die" the rehab thing.

That usually remains a fear - being cut off. Maybe you can have a discussion with your current psych and ask him if he can recommend someone should he retire or move on. Especially if he is understanding of your situation.

[[Le...]]

16 hours ago, [[j...] said:

Totally disagree. You cannot talk in absolutes such as “never” or “ever”. Are you a doctor? Have you lived your entire life on benzos? If not then you cannot concIude that there is no better quality of life ever. I know someone who was on benzos for 40 years till death, no problems whatsoever and very happy. 

I’m not advocating for it, but you cannot apply absolutes to life. 

Yea I am a doctor i guess but not a medical one. I dont wear the title around as a status symbol. 

If you ever decide to try you seem very aware of the large challenge involved Towardshealing.  It is always a possibility for the future if it is a challenge you want to take on. 

[[An...]]

18 hours ago, [[j...] said:

I am sorry you’re in this position. It seems like you don’t have any other choice but to stay on it indefinitely. You need to be functional and have some quality of life. 

And by the sounds of it, you do seem to have a steady supply for the future. If this is how it has to be, then give yourself grace and allow yourself to enjoy life. You’ve been through enough already.

Ditto!

[[An...]]

@[to...]

First off, most ppl here who are on these drugs did not start them for recreational reasons. Most, like myself, had some physical and/or psychological health complaint that was really disrupting our lives. All ppl here on these drugs would rather not take them, provided they could successfully detox, recover, and have some quality of life afterwards.

It sounds to me like you are not having many issues with tolerance and function fine as long as you take the 5 mgs of valium daily. After reading what you wrote, I would simply stay on it at this point in time. Who knows, you may change your mind in the future, but you seem fine taking the 5-6 mgs, and you are functional with no tolerance. What good is getting off these drugs if you remain in a non-functional state for years with no quality of life? If you were experiencing tolerance w/d sxs, my reply to you would be very different

I had to put my valium taper on hold for now. My mother is having some health issues and I need to remain functional, so I can care for her. I am stable and doing ok ATM on 2.5 mgs of Valium daily. I am just playing things by ear. Personally, this is what is best for me at this point in time right now in my life.

I am curious about something. When you have gone below 4.5 mgs, how long does it take to start feeling really bad from the drop in dosage? Can you feel it immediately, even with the long half-life that Valium has?

[[An...]]

On 05/06/2024 at 17:46, [[j...] said:

Totally disagree. You cannot talk in absolutes such as “never” or “ever”. Are you a doctor? Have you lived your entire life on benzos? If not then you cannot concIude that there is no better quality of life ever. I know someone who was on benzos for 40 years till death, no problems whatsoever and very happy. 

I’m not advocating for it, but you cannot apply absolutes to life. 

100% agree. There are many posts in other online forums where ppl have been on valium for over 40 years, have never become tolerant, function fine, and are perfectly happy staying on the drug. These ppl only become sick when some well-meaning doctor comes along and forces them to come off . 

[[Pi...]]

I think sometimes you have to be practical in life and do what is best for you.  there was someone on YouTube who reduced his dosage of Valium quite low and just held there for years.

do you have a jeweller’s scale?.  When I got to .25 i had to use a jeweller’s scale to make my cuts.  I also had to take 3 doses not 1 during the day.   These 2 things helped me a lot when I got to lower doses.
 

 

[[to...]]

10 hours ago, [[A...] said:

@[to...]

 

I am curious about something. When you have gone below 4.5 mgs, how long does it take to start feeling really bad from the drop in dosage? Can you feel it immediately, even with the long half-life that Valium has?

I don't really remember, I've been holding for 4-5 years.  But the worst withdrawal effects lasted 2 years before they stopped until I was functional again.

Last year the worst effects, like uncontrollable doctor visits for hypochondria, went away completely, and started being able to work.  I am still having issues, like agoraphobia, but I am more functonal than someone who is bed bound or in a group home somewhere.  The latter is what I was trying to avoid and I avoided it!  I like freedom

Edited June 7 by [to...]