Distinguishing between side effects and withdrawal symptoms

[[Al...]]

 

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to distinguish between side effects and withdrawal symptoms. This seems important to me as it could help guide the pace of a taper. If a particularly troubling symptom is a side effect, it would make sense to continue the taper in the hope that it will resolve with less of the drug in your system. However, if it is a withdrawal symptom, it may make more sense to wait for a while until things settle down. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as just looking up a symptom in a list as withdrawal symptoms are often listed as side effects (and vice versa) depending on which site you visit.

 

[[...]]

As for me, i considered a symptom as caused by wd  if it came straight away or in a couple of days after a cut. If an issue wasn't much affected by dose reducing or, sometimes, even got better for a while, i believed it was a kind of side effect.

But, in fact, it's more complicated. Side effects are supposed to appear soon after starting a medication. If they develope much later, i guess it's smth else. My "side effects" always got better for a few hours immediately after taking a dose. I guess it was tolerance not a true side effect, although the only way to finish with them was yet to complete my tapering as soon as possible bc the changes made by benzo in my brain couldn't be resolved by dose holding any more. Just my experience. Hope others will share theirs.

[[En...]]

2 hours ago, [[A...] said:

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to distinguish between side effects and withdrawal symptoms. This seems important to me as it could help guide the pace of a taper. If a particularly troubling symptom is a side effect, it would make sense to continue the taper in the hope that it will resolve with less of the drug in your system. However, if it is a withdrawal symptom, it may make more sense to wait for a while until things settle down. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as just looking up a symptom in a list as withdrawal symptoms are often listed as side effects (and vice versa) depending on which site you visit.

I think the lower you go in dose the better the side effects become. Side effects from holding your taper for too long become tolerance withdrawal. I think it is important to hold each cut until you feel better but not too long as that better feeling will become tolerance again. I have read stories on this site with people who felt good and didnt continue their tapers and got sick again. 

If you are tapering and notice you feel symptoms 3 or 4 days later that is withdrawal from tapering. That does get better with time. 

[[or...]]

Wow @[En...], you made me think about whether or not I've held this last dose too long.  I'm going ahead and tapering again.  It makes sense to me about holding too long, and getting into Tolerance WD.

I'm grateful for your post, it may be exactly what I needed to read this a.m., oregonlady

Edited June 4 by [or...]

[[En...]]

3 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Wow @[En...], you made me think about whether or not I've held this last dose too long.  I'm going ahead and tapering again.  It makes sense to me about holding too long, and getting into Tolerance WD.

I'm grateful for your post, it may be exactly what I needed to read this a.m., oregonlady

People like to feel good after a taper and may be afraid to move forward with their taper. I am in that position now. I know I will need to make the decision to move on soon. It can be scary to continue after a bad last cut and having horrible withdrawal symptoms. I can handle the physical symptoms better than the psychological ones. Bad anxiety is hard to cope with. 

[[or...]]

Yes, physical sxs are much easier for me as well ENG, but you've given me a lot to think about.  I like to share with people the benefits of holding a dose, but now I feel my eyes are opened to the down-side of holding too long?? 

I never thought of it once until you described it, thanks so much, OL

PS Yes, I love the windows, feeling better, but now I need to pay closer attention to those and shorter hold times

[[ba...]]

What a great question. I have been thinking about this myself. I do believe we experience side effects from the drug, and those tend to diminish as we cut. 

I dont think we can really tell when we are in the thick of it, but if certain sxs have gone away, or come infrequently as you proceed, then for you, those are side effects. I think those are more physical, from my expereince. However, some of the psych manifestations have gone down with cuts, but they tend to loop back around.

Things that stay pretty consistent I would consider wd. For me, those are pretty bad. The chemical anxiety, feeling overwhelmed, the mental anguish, interdose wd and I am in the group of people where the x starts to paradox. 

 

 

 

 

[[je...]]

5 hours ago, [[o...] said:

I like to share with people the benefits of holding a dose, but now I feel my eyes are opened to the down-side of holding too long?? 

What constitutes too long? I understand the underlying concern of tolerance and not wanting to stay on the drug for life but if you need to hold then you need to hold. There’s no purpose in rushing a cut driven purely out of fear and what might happen. 

I have said this many times. I suspect I was in tolerance at the beginning of my taper. Yet I’ve held my dose 6-8 weeks when I needed to. And I only saw improvement in symptoms. Unless you’re already in clear tolerance and experiencing bad symptoms, I don’t think making decisions based on fear of potential future tolerance is wise. It is better to make a decision on the current state of your symptoms.

[[Cr...]]

Alpha you may benefit from chronicling your symptoms daily and giving them an intensity rating.

Over time you may be able to look at your data and extrapolate some causalities. Be mindful that it is still just anecdotal.

If some symptoms pop up regularly on a daily basis after taking the med it could be a side effect issue, especially if those symptoms start to decrease as you get lower.

If you notice other symptoms increasing around the same time after every cut (say 5 days) then it is highly likely it is withdrawal related.

Do keep in mind that if you have already been tapering for awhile that withdrawal symptoms from previous cuts can also occasionally come and go with no discernible pattern.

For some people, keeping track of there symptoms and progress helps them better cope with the recovery process. Others may prefer a more laisez-faire approach, especially when off, and find it easier to have a 'c'est la vie' mindset to their symptoms coming and going.

Edited June 4 by [Cr...]

[[or...]]

34 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

What constitutes too long? I understand the underlying concern of tolerance and not wanting to stay on the drug for life but if you need to hold then you need to hold. There’s no purpose in rushing a cut driven purely out of fear and what might happen. 

I have said this many times. I suspect I was in tolerance at the beginning of my taper. Yet I’ve held my dose 6-8 weeks when I needed to. And I only saw improvement in symptoms. Unless you’re already in clear tolerance and experiencing bad symptoms, I don’t think making decisions based on fear of potential future tolerance is wise. It is better to make a decision on the current state of your symptoms.

You're asking me??  I have no idea, I do everything according to how I feel.  The thing I'm going to try out is to taper after 2 weeks or less instead of almost a month, and some sxs never getting any better with longer holds, OL PS maybe ENG101 will have an answer for you JB

[[je...]]

Just now, [[o...] said:

You're asking me??  I have no idea, I do everything according to how I feel.  The thing I'm going to try out is to taper after 2 weeks or less instead of almost a month, and some sxs never getting any better with longer holds, OL PS maybe ENG101 will have an answer for you JB

It was a rhetorical question. Because nobody knows.

[[En...]]

36 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

What constitutes too long? I understand the underlying concern of tolerance and not wanting to stay on the drug for life but if you need to hold then you need to hold. There’s no purpose in rushing a cut driven purely out of fear and what might happen. 

I have said this many times. I suspect I was in tolerance at the beginning of my taper. Yet I’ve held my dose 6-8 weeks when I needed to. And I only saw improvement in symptoms. Unless you’re already in clear tolerance and experiencing bad symptoms, I don’t think making decisions based on fear of potential future tolerance is wise. It is better to make a decision on the current state of your symptoms.

I agree you hold until your symptoms are  better. What I'm talking about is when people have already recovered and still hold. That may take several months. There is a fear of having bad withdrawal symptoms again and when people are in a good window they want that feeling to last. The point is I dont think you can hold a dose forever and not experience TW.

[[or...]]

Just now, [[j...] said:

It was a rhetorical question. Because nobody knows.

Ok, and I'll look up rhetorical.  I hope I didn't say I knew anything for sure, that's why I put in the question marks.  I totally agree that no one knows much at all about these things, but we know what works for each of us. Then, it's just doing it and not getting side-tracked, OL

[[je...]]

1 minute ago, [[o...] said:

Ok, and I'll look up rhetorical.  I hope I didn't say I knew anything for sure, that's why I put in the question marks.  I totally agree that no one knows much at all about these things, but we know what works for each of us. Then, it's just doing it and not getting side-tracked, OL

All good, I don’t want this thread to go off-topic because I was concerned you’ll start cutting too soon unnecessarily. 

[[or...]]

2 minutes ago, [[E...] said:

I agree you hold until your symptoms are  better. What I'm talking about is when people have already recovered and still hold. That may take several months. There is a fear of having bad withdrawal symptoms again and when people are in a good window they want that feeling to last. The point is I dont think you can hold a dose forever and not experience TW.

I was thinking about this as I went out to do some errands, thinking was my first mistake but I got to thinking about TW, and that happens when your dose is no longer working for you, so you either go up in dose, or what?  Seems tapering would give you more wd sxs.  Now I'm kinda confused, but I gotta tell you ENG101 you still helped me a lot because I was procrastinating on tapering again but did that this a.m.  I am able to do my daily tasks, take care of my puppy, and getting out in our good weather.  I figured I'd test it out as I've done really well on a 3% taper.

It's been because of everything going on in life at once, that's given me more anxiety, that's what I suspect anyway, OL

[[or...]]

2 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

All good, I don’t want this thread to go off-topic because I was concerned you’ll start cutting too soon unnecessarily. 

I'm pretty safe to taper as I mentioned to Eng101, and also, it's been 24 days so I just think I should try another 3%, OL

[[En...]]

5 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

I was thinking about this as I went out to do some errands, thinking was my first mistake but I got to thinking about TW, and that happens when your dose is no longer working for you, so you either go up in dose, or what?  Seems tapering would give you more wd sxs.  Now I'm kinda confused, but I gotta tell you ENG101 you still helped me a lot because I was procrastinating on tapering again but did that this a.m.  I am able to do my daily tasks, take care of my puppy, and getting out in our good weather.  I figured I'd test it out as I've done really well on a 3% taper.

It's been because of everything going on in life at once, that's given me more anxiety, that's what I suspect anyway, OL

I agree everyone is different with regards to recovery time after a cut. If you cut while you are in acute withdrawal you will only make your suffering worse. 

I have read posts where someone was feeling good after a taper and held for a long time and started getting tolerance withdrawal symptoms. I think there is something to this. I'm not talking one month or two but prolonged periods of time. I believe your body will get used to a dose after a time like prior use. I had TW within a month of starting clonazepam. I will only taper if my symptoms are manageable. I have learned that from here and my experience. 

Edited June 4 by [En...]

[Guest [Do...]]

A million dollar question. The only thing i know is the times i had the best and longer windows and the few days i had of 100% no symptoms have been while tapering for over a week or 10 days in a row.

During my holds i can feel great one day, really bad the next day and great again the day after and be like that untill i start tapering again.

I once felt clear side effects from my morning dose and i started to taper only from that one instead of tapering from both alternatively and it improved and finally eliminated that side effect so i know it is real and it gives you bonus pain and suffering as most of the times is imposible to distinguish.

 

[[ba...]]

Question:

How many think the awful anxiety is a side effect, in addition to being a wd sxs. I  suspect it is both. A very few times when I made a cut, the first day, the anxiety went down. Then, it came raging back.

[[En...]]

3 minutes ago, [[b...] said:

Question:

How many think the awful anxiety is a side effect, in addition to being a wd sxs. I  suspect it is both. A very few times when I made a cut, the first day, the anxiety went down. Then, it came raging back.

Yes it can be both for sure. I had bad morning anxiety while in tolerance and have bad morning anxiety after a taper. The only difference is the taper anxiety gets better with time. 

[Guest [Do...]]

12 minutes ago, [[b...] said:

Question:

How many think the awful anxiety is a side effect, in addition to being a wd sxs. I  suspect it is both. A very few times when I made a cut, the first day, the anxiety went down. Then, it came raging back.

Yes  defenetely could be both, remember benzos sometimes get paradoxical and give you anxiety as a side effect.

[[ba...]]

I get paradoxical fast. My previous cut was going well, but on day 11, and then 12, the second dose paradoxed. I was not stable. However, in this specific situation, which has been ongoing for me, I cut dose 2. It is hard. I think this cut will not paradox as fast, because its very difficult. In this situation (paradoxing) its always a fine line between the paradox and cutting too much.

[[Al...]]

So in summary, I think the consensus is that it can be hard to distinguish, but generally:

Withdrawal symptoms are more likely to appear or intensify after reducing your dose.

Side effects are more likely to resolve or improve after reducing your dose.