Bad Anxiety Out of Nowhere

[[So...]]

Hey guys, so I haven't been on here much bcuz I have been feeling pretty stable and it's just not good for me to get on the internet and obsess when I'm mentally okay and trying to just proceed through this until the end.  

 

I have still been having a load of trouble working at 10 months off klonopin now and almost off my antidepressants.. but it's been doable.  Very hard and painful but doable.  As I said before, my symptoms kinda morphed from all mental to physical and even when I do get aka bursts they are usually physical restlessness and not mental.

 

Anyways, yesterday I had a good cry bcuz of how hard and overstimulating working at my computer all day for the past 9 months has been, and I was already in a wave mind you, but it's like that triggered something weird in me.. I just had a huge panic attack while crying and now since then I have been having severe anxiety again, like how it use to be. Just feeling unsafe, my stomach is churning, skin is prickling, worrying, racing thoughts, dpdr, and just feeling hopeless again. 

 

I am very scared and devastated bcuz like I said, I have gotten myself to a pretty good place this year in 2024 and I haven't really had a major crazy wave since January.  The coach I was using is taking a break, and I can't afford any other ones.  I just feel so alone in this and unsure what to do.  I am extremely traumatized from everything I've gone through the past year and a half now and it's just soul crushing to feel like I'm mentally slipping again. 

 

I always said if i just have physical symptoms and the mental crap stays away then I can do this, but I just don't want my mind to torture me again.  I'm not sure if I am more afraid of going back to that place like, just major ptsd, or if I'm really going back but either way I am extremely anxious right now and it's making me feel like I never really got better, I'm just stuck like this and can never move on with my life and be happy again.  I know I'm only 10 months off but I was stupid and reinstated on my first withdrawal, so it's really been a year and a half since I've been unwell.  It took me so damn long to get to where I am and I'm so afraid to lose all this hard fought ground.  My mind is just spinning so bad...  

I just don't think I can do another round of the hell I went through before, it was so so severe like, I only really found a few people who had it as bad as me, I always tried to be positive on here and act like it wasn't as bad as it was but it was really really life shatteringly bad and I just don't want to have to fight that hard again and lose everything all over.

 

[[Ma...]]

Breathe. You know added stress makes it worse. Breathe. Another breath..

Did you know that 85% of what we worry about NEVER happens? It’s true.

I’ve been doing this, with a failed reinstatement, for pretty much the exact same time so, I get it. I get everything you are saying.

Right now just dig into that tool box you created and hold on. We’ve both read about the ‘last surge’. The very last bolt, fine tuning that happens to so, so many. 

If I were to tell you that this is exactly just the LAST surge, would you be okay? Would you relax, feel better? Well I am going to tell you just that:’

This is your last surge of fine-tuning. And I am just so sure it will pass before you know it.

Tonight: Believe it with everything in your being ❤️‍🩹

[[So...]]

Aww thanks so much for your reply! @[Ma...] you're so sweet!  Im feeling a little better but I'm still waking up with either anxiety or aka in the mornings now, not sure which one tbh, but then I distract myself and I'm okay.  It's so hard entering a wave again after feeling decent.

 

I'm sorry you've struggled this long too 😔 hugs 🫂 we can do this! 

 

Yeah, if this was the last wave I wouldn't even be worried, I make things sooo much worse in my head, you're right haha.  I'm just traumatized from last yr tbh.

[[Bo...]]

Sending hugs your way. So so sorry things have been brutal and it is completely understandable to be scared having experienced akathisia…. And such a tough journey at that.

It’s very traumatizing when we have the come back because we don’t know how long how severe, etc. etc. and our brains really have a difficult time because it’s so horrifying. Just want to validate. everything you’re feeling and going through ….anyone would feel the exact same having had the same situation.

Hoping things turn around for the good soon because you’re so close to being off everything and perseverance and bravery, words that just don’t do it justice, on how far you’ve come last year….Incredibly inspirational and keep going!!!!!

 

 

[[Kr...]]

1 hour ago, [[S...] said:

I'm just traumatized from last yr tbh.

Yeah, sounds like you’re just scared. Its a good sign you’re laughing and joking about it. If it were bad aka you wouldn’t be.

[[So...]]

I think it's mild aka mixed with anxiety I think @[Kr...] i had severe aka for about a year & thats why im so scared of it coming back.  

 

Joking is also my coping mechanism.  I try to stay positive no matter what.  Just came on here for some support!

[[So...]]

Yess ik you get it @[Bo...] honestly I've been more positive and seeing things through a new light bcuz i use to look at aka as a death sentence and now I try to see it as just another symptom and know it will go away with time like the rest.. I know that only helps mildly but I find the more i freak myself out and don't try hard to battle these intrusive negative thoughts the more I spiral and panic more. 

 

It is so scary to yoyo back and forth. That's how the tail end of 2023 and beginning of 2024 was for me, but the breaks from it show you that it's possible for it to go away ❤️

 

Thank you for all your kind words, thinking of you and looking forward to the day we are both moved on with our lives and healthy 😊 hugs 🫂 

[[Kr...]]

9 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

but the breaks from it show you that it's possible for it to go away

So did it go away on its own or did the mirtazipine help it go?

this is so confusing to me.

and how can a person switch on positivity when they have aka? I ask my coach this a she says it’s impossible when you have mental aka. She says not to try and force positivity when I’m bad. 
 

any thoughts on this?

Edited May 19 by [Kr...]

[[So...]]

@[Kr...]

I don't think you can switch on positivity when mental aka is bad, no.  I know I really can't.  Im just saying for people like me who are experiencing more mild versions.  That's why I say I TRY to stay positive, it's not always possible.

 

The mirt did not help me at all, it made it worse but everyone is different.  I am tapered down to 1mg of mirt and 2.4mg of Celexa now.  I am off my benzo.  It went away on its own after a good while.  Well, the worst parts of it anyway, most of the time.

 

Sorry for the confusion, myself and a lot of other people eventually get into this stage of milder aka after awhile and that's when you can start practicing positive coping skills.  While you're in the worst of it just worry about staying alive and if you do that you'll be okay ❤️. I'm sorry you're going thru this too.

Edited May 19 by [So...]

[[So...]]

Or like, in the breaks between your episodes.  I almost have to do this to keep myself from drowning in depression.

[[Cr...]]

On 17/05/2024 at 18:32, [[S...] said:

Hey guys, so I haven't been on here much bcuz I have been feeling pretty stable and it's just not good for me to get on the internet and obsess when I'm mentally okay and trying to just proceed through this until the end.  

That is the general idea  when you feel good, or even stable, it is best to not dwell on this forum and all the withdrawal stuff. If you don't try to do anything positive in real life and just stay here ruminating on withdrawal you will find yourself worrying about whether you will end up with other members' symptoms that you have never had or you may find reading about the suffering of others just hard to bare in general.

As for your panic attack, I remember having what I called a 'mental' panic attack out of the blue when I had been feeling good almost 6 weeks. At the time I likened it to being kneecapped, if felt so cruel to come when I believed I was on the mend.

After a strong panic attack the nervous system takes a bit of a shock and will take some time to settle down. That destabilization is what is causing the burning sensations, restlessness, racing thoughts, and the sensation that life isn't real.

While our brains are synonomous with 'intelligence and smarts' they can actually be rather dumb. Your brain doesn't understand withdrawal, so when your next wave comes during recovery those negative sensations can easily cause your brain to send out the fight or flight signals causing a panic attack. It is incapable of understanding that its own repairwork to itself, while trying to achieve a benzo-free homeostasis, is the cause of the symptoms and that they are not an actual threat to you.

These sensations are uncomfortable but they will not hurt you. The more you train yourself to become less afraid of these pre/post panic attack symptoms, the more your brain will learn that it doesn't need to go on full alert so easily. 

You are still healing. You are closer to recovery now than you were before this incident even started. Hang in there. You will be ok. Stay here as long as you need, and leave again as soon as you can. You made it 10 months, you are strong and you got this!

[[So...]]

Hey, thanks so much for the support! @[Cr...] yeah I tried to get off of the forums as soon as I had a tiny bit of even ground to walk on, and I got to the point where I was feeling about 40% better which wasn't perfect but was majorrr for me, enough for me to start doing some small things again and keep myself distracted!  I was acrually inducing such bad thought patterns and making myself sick from reading about this stuff all day, and I don't think that's a bad thing when you're in the bowels of hell but it was time for a break as you said, lol.  I don't want that to get twisted though, I think this group is amazing and idk if I could have gotten thru my first year without this place. 

 

Yep, I know exactly what you mean, this is by no means my only wave it just stood out bcuz it reminded me or a very bad place but when I get waves of restlessness or mental anguish it's a kick in the gut bcuz it reminds me that im still very much in this withdrawal process and I don't have free range of my life yet.  Im learning that that's just part of this process though and I have gotten close to total acceptance over these 2 years.  

 

I think the confusing part to me is that I don't know whether I'm having a panic attack or akathisia attack, not that it really matters, but I have had panic attacks all my life & they aren't usually this bad.  So idk if the withdrawal intensifies them or what.  When they happen though I get stuck in this place of "I'll never get better or feel totally normal again" and then like you said it takes my brain awhile to stop panicking from those thoughts and body sensations.  I'm trying though 👍

 

Yep, it reminds me of when animals are abused and then have triggers the rest of their lives, or people with ptsd for that matter.  If anything reminds me of my Year of personal hell I just keep snowballing with it and freak out more and more unless I literally fight my thoughts all day and even that doesn't work sometimes.  

 

You are so right.  Ever since it happened I have been constantly body scanning and fearing for the big scary thing to happen.  This is something I have struggled with my whole life and is the reason I have a "panic disorder" diagnosis.  So I have been trying to distract which is hard when you don't feel well, but im trying.

 

Yep, that's what my husband always tells me, were closer to the end than the beginning and I pray to God he's right!!  Congrats to you too, idk your story but you sound experienced enough that you have probably had one hell of a journey too.  Thanks again for answering me, sometimes it's just nice to remind myself I'm not alone, although I wish no one else had to go through this ❤️

[[Cr...]]

22 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

think the confusing part to me is that I don't know whether I'm having a panic attack or akathisia attack, not that it really matters, but I have had panic attacks all my life & they aren't usually this bad.  So idk if the withdrawal intensifies them or what.

I think you know that answer. Withdrawal absolutely can intensify our base anxiety and panic attacks. One positive that I experienced that you may as well once you are recovered is that after experiencing withdrawal-magnified anxiety/panic attacks, the natural anxiety you experience once you are healed will seem like a walk in the park.

I had panic attacks most of my life (starting in my teens) and haven't had one in the 12 years since I recovered from benzo withdrawal.

After about 16 months the torture mostly ended for good and I came out stronger because of it. Since I am outside looking in it is very easy for me to be positive, and I fully understand the anxious negative emotions you have right now. Just remember, you are 'allowed' to have those feelings. They won't set you back, and are most likely indicative that recovery is taking place. Let go of the feeling that you need to be in control of your mood and symptoms. Negative thoughts come, don't ignore them but acknowledge they are there and maybe add some humorous commentary. Those thoughts will become defanged and slowly retreat into the shadows.

Edited May 19 by [Cr...]

[[So...]]

Oh man, that sounds awesome!  I honestly can't even picture what things will be like when this finally ends, I think I'll be the most greatful person in the world when the day finally comes this bs doesn't effect everything in my life.  That's what I've been fighting for!  No more panic attacks sounds delightful too! 

 

Wow, good for you, 12 years, now THAT is a major accomplishment!!  It's hard for me to imagine that this could be done within a years time, I think we all think we're gonna be the one who has symptoms for years and years, that's where most of my negative thinking comes from.  

 

Yep, I try to desensitize myself to all the mild crap that I can, the more severe stuff you're just surviving thru is another story, but I think a lot can be said for mindset when you can get into that zone. I'll try to allow more negative emotions, I've actually always struggled with that, I've spent most of my life running from bad feelings and reacting to them all, hence how I ended up on medications. 

 

Thanks for coming back on here after so long and cheering us on, can't wait to be on the otherside with you!! 

[[Ho...]]

Hey @[So...], I've been tapering mirt as well. I was forced to go super-slow because every time I titrated down, there were very uncomfortable repercussions to say the least. I know you've been tapering and although I don't know your rate, I do know that the lower I go, the smaller my cuts need to be. 

You could look at your antidepressants, backtrack a little and see if you titrated down before this episode? Pamster mentioned this to me when I hit a bad wave at one time and, sure enough, I'd just gone down on my dose. So I mention it to you, in the spirit of @[Pa...]'s amazing wisdom!

Want you better,

HCHC

[[Kr...]]

@[So...] You are a blessing. Thanks for clarifying. I was feeling so guilty and ashamed that I couldn’t feel positivity.

you actually helped me calm. Love you. ❤️

[[So...]]

@[Kr...] omg no, do NOT feel bad, i literally went one year straight only having one single sliver of hope and even that was gone at times.  Do not give up, and don't feel pressured to feel ANY type of way.. it took me a long time to get any positivity back.  You will be okay, it just takes time unfortunetly but then we have the rest of our lives

[[So...]]

@[Ho...] hey!  So good to hear from you again.  I hope you've been well 🙏

 

So, I am actually microtapering but you make a good point, I may have to slow down.  I am going down at .01mg a day but now that I'm at 1mg total mirt I may have to take it to every other day, or at least hold for a bit.  It never ceases to amaze me how much tapering even slowly can effect us.

 

Thank you ❤️ I wanna be okay too, so you're right, it's more important for me to keep my stability than to power through this.  I have been going to Josef almost this whole time so I messaged him and will get his input as well.

 

How have you been doing tho?? What are you at on mirt and how are you tapering if you don't mind me asking?

Edited May 20 by [So...]

[[Ho...]]

Hey there @[So...], wow I'd love to hear what Josef says!!

I'm now at .4 mg. Doesn't sound like much but it still affects a large number of histamine receptors at this point; something like 70% according to someone called ask2266, who posted it on the old benzobuddies site. 

I tried going down .25 every six days but it made everything so much worse! Now I go down about .1 every ten days. Honestly I'm not sure what is what in terms of symptoms. I can't tell if I'm in a wave, or recovering from the last mirt drop. I think it affects me to a ridiculous degree, because when I hold for a couple of weeks, I often stabilize right into a window. A lot of people go faster than I do. I was doing really well and then bam, hit a wave. In it now. Pretty debilitating. I'm hoping it's the last kick from the beast. A lot of people seem to have this last awful wave and then things begin to let up. I always hope! Even as I think I won't heal, I still hope, you know?

I heard from someone recently on bb who got down to .05 mg mirt before she jumped.

I pasted some of the numbers from the screenshot for you, below. In case it helps! 

HCHC

 

 

Seems like this would be a good time to post a reminder chart on how strongly mirtazapine still binds to histamine and serotonin receptors at extremely low doses:

Mirtazapine

KiM values at receptors h1=0.14 (binding to receptors causes histamine reduction),

 

 

3.0mg 94%

2.5 mg 92%

2.0mg 91%

1.5mg 88%

1.0mg 83%

0.5mg 71%

0.25mg 55%

0.10mg 33%

0.05mg 20%

0.025mg 11%

0.010mg 5%

 

 

[[So...]]

Mirt has always effected me a lot too @[Ho...] it has sent me into plenty of waves and even tho i got of klonopin ct twice I havent been able to kick the mirt yet.  That's how bad it rocks me, lol.  And being on it isn't much better, it's like I was super sensitized to it's effects from benzo wd. 

 

I must admit, I've been very eager to get off of it bcuz I've always felt when I do that's when major healing will occur.  That and this damn celexa, but moreso the mirt.  Holding never helped me much but tbf I was in klono acute when I held last.  I think I just try to not think about it so much it surprises me when I get rocked from it.  

 

Were on about the same tapering schedule then, for me I'm down .1mg every 10 days as well.  I've just been on so much crap there's never any telling what's causing what for sure. 

 

It's funny bcuz I can say with certainty that everyone else will heal but me.  So, I totally get that fear.. but if we were on the outside looking in what would we think? So yes, grab that thread of hope and hold on ❤️

 

Thanks for that chart too BTW.  Damn this last MG may be really hard, those are some harsh occupancy drops.  We got this tho even if it's tough 💪 

[[Ho...]]

Hey @[So...] what a nice letter!! I feel stronger already!!

You mentioned suspecting if you were off everything, it would speed up healing. I've wondered the same. I got off lamectal and did feel better after about 10 days. It's always hard to know if it's the placebo effect or a tangible physical thing. But I got off of it surprisingly easily. 

I'm horrible with numbers now, even though my brain has come back a lot, there are still a lot of holes. I'm actually going at a snails pace. I'm going down .01 mg every ten days. As I write this I wonder if going too slow is causing my brain issues. Ugh. I don't know. I just ordered another refill of liquid mirt. 

I can't believe you CT'd klonopin twice!! I did too; the first time was about 18 years ago and it was no problem. I just stopped and had no after-effects. This time, no such luck. So I don't think a person's response is necessarily genetic or mine would have been the same both times. 

Mirt helped me sleep and eat. But I hate it just the same. It shouldn't be this hard to get off of. Pamster mentioned once that people's recovery is often lengthened because of other meds they have to get off, and I figure she's seen hundreds go through this. You're able to go at a decent clip so you should be off pretty fast! 

I try not to think about much because when I put my mind in neutral, it helps me cope. I used to love to think and think and think. Now I watch 'Survivor' and my biggest worry is, will I run out of episodes ? LOLOL

You have such a good spirit!! God bless you @[So...]!!! 

[[So...]]

@[Ho...]

Unfortunetly I don't think I'll ever know what's truly happening from what in my case bcuz I've battled 5 different meds from going into the stupid psych ward so it's all sort of speculation for me, but my first bad bout of aka happened from cutting out 1/4th of my mirt when I didn't know any better.  It was either that or a 3 month delayed acute klonopin wd.  But yeah, I'm not sure exactly if getting off the mirt will make me better or not but I always figured the sooner I can stop having to play with the dose the better, and I had felt good enough to start tapering it again.  That's really good you were able to get off Lamictal, my friend is having a hard time with that one. 

 i think i will now slow it down to .005mg a day.  It sucks but the last thing I wanna do is keep retriggering akathisia.  I don't think there's anything wrong with taking it slow.

 

Well, both of the times I Cted were by accident actually, the first was last January, I went into rehab and they took my off my last .25mg, not a lot but it really messed me up.  I reinstated when I got aka and it unfortunelty only helped for about 3 weeks.  The second time was 10 months ago and, if you can believe this, the pharmacist wrote the prescription wrong and had me taking .09 instead of .9mg and I had never taken liquid meds before that so I didn't realize what happened for 3 weeks. I have done what I've had to do to stay alive becuz I love life and I think there will be better days, I may have another 80 years of normal life ahead, who knows.  

 

I agree that, especially mirt, can complicate klonopin wd, can't tell you how many times I've seen that happen and I can't even imagine how many times pamster has.  I think it's the histamine.

 

Hahah yes I was going pretty good at distracting myself, as I said I've been working again, but this last wave has my mind so twisted it is hard.  As I said, I'm working again bcuz I have no other choice, and that distracts me even tho it's soooo hard.  I can split my work up however I want thruout the day at least but it takes a toll.

 

Thank you!  I really try.  If I can muster any strength to be positive, I will.  You have a good spirit too, thanks for talking with me!! 

[[Ho...]]

On 20/05/2024 at 22:41, [[S...] said:

 

 i think i will now slow it down to .005mg a day.  It sucks but the last thing I wanna do is keep retriggering akathisia.  I don't think there's anything wrong with taking it slow.

Well, both of the times I Cted were by accident actually, the first was last January, I went into rehab and they took my off my last .25mg, not a lot but it really messed me up.  I reinstated when I got aka and it unfortunelty only helped for about 3 weeks.  The second time was 10 months ago and, if you can believe this, the pharmacist wrote the prescription wrong and had me taking .09 instead of .9mg and I had never taken liquid meds before that so I didn't realize what happened for 3 weeks. I have done what I've had to do to stay alive becuz I love life and I think there will be better days, I may have another 80 years of normal life ahead, who knows.  

OMGosh .25 mg of K is a LOT!! No wonder you had huge issues. Especially with it's the last .25 mg. When I hit that number was exactly when I got slammed and had to go at a snail's pace from then on. Even so, I didn't fully understand that going slower might have helped me. When I slowed and held, I felt better. So I thought, if I go off completely, then I'll really really feel better. Yikes. Was I wrong!

Yes you'll likely have practically a whole lifetime of feeling normal and good again. So I think you're wise to slow your mirt taper down. You need some relief and, although it may take a week or two, slowing down should offer some. We need to do whatever it takes to make 'today' bearable. It's so easy to start thinking, "Get done, just get done' and then suffer harder and more bewildering days when you just can't find relief. As long as you can find relief somewhere, each day, you're golden.

I'm impressed that you're working. I know it's hard; incredibly hard. It makes the time pass profitably and keeps you going a bit longer; hopefully it absorbs you so you have moments when you're not thinking about the pain and anxiety or whatever your symptoms are. We all have more or less the same ones, although some seem to have terrific head pressure, which I never have. But kudos to you for working! 

Let's ho9pe slowing the mirt helps things settle for you. Praying so!

You take care! Thanks for talking with my @soapybits! You're a hero!

HCHC