Going from Valium to Klonopin

[[Ma...]]

1 minute ago, [[M...] said:

 

This conversation now begs the question, does one benzo cause more intense w/d side fx after a proper taper is completed? 🤔

 

Very good question.  And one I don’t think we have any idea how to answer.  Someone would have to do a study: find a lot of patients (probably at least a couple hundred) who have successfully withdrawn from all these drugs and compare their recovery and side effects to see if there are differences.  Then it would have scientific meaning.

Otherwise we are just left guessing based on people’s anecdotal experiences.  

[[Md...]]

4 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

27mg is indeed a hefty dose of Valium.   How many times a day do you take your dose?  Have you and Dr. Josef discussed the pros/cons of trialing nighttime dosing only?

3 times a day, since that's how I was dosing Xanax, but developed I/D withdrawals. This is why Dr Josef has me on the same dosing schedule.

[[Ma...]]

6 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Did you have any issues crossing over to K? I'm also curious as to how you did the transition, if you don't mind sharing. 

Just the ones I mentioned above 👆.  I only stayed on Valium for about a week or so, so maybe I would have adjusted eventually.  I didn’t stay on long enough to find out because I felt fine on Clonazepam. I decided to just stick with that for my taper since others had done so successfully.  Again, I think either is fine to taper from.  

[[or...]]

18 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Greetings! I started a thread a few months back on this topic, but couldnt find it. I also didn't get very many answers (if I remember right) so here's the situation.

I was on Xanax, then was switched to Valium. I've been on it for a about a year, but there are days when the sedation really is just too much, so I have been thinking about switching to Klonopin in hopes to eradicate the sedation that Valium brings on. 

I'm simply wondering if anyone here has made this switch before and if so, how did it go?

Thanks.

Back to your OP Mdfox, I have always found the klonopin/Clonazepam to help me sleep, even as I taper it still works the same.  But also, I have taken it a.m.'s all my years of taking the 1mg, and it did not have the sedative affect on me.  I went on with my working days, days off participating in activities, life!

But again, it does seem to boil down to each person's experience, or trying something different.  Some of these studies (any health) study only tells of one group, and who knows what the individuals lifestyle (nutrition, exercise, health issues) are? 

That's why I'm not big on polls, or studies, although sometimes it's just good to "believe" something, but not have anything left but my personal experience, which is getting me through this taper so not knocking it oregonlady

[[Md...]]

3 minutes ago, [[o...] said:

Back to your OP Mdfox, I have always found the klonopin/Clonazepam to help me sleep, even as I taper it still works the same.  But also, I have taken it a.m.'s all my years of taking the 1mg, and it did not have the sedative affect on me.  I went on with my working days, days off participating in activities, life!

But again, it does seem to boil down to each person's experience, or trying something different.  Some of these studies (any health) study only tells of one group, and who knows what the individuals lifestyle (nutrition, exercise, health issues) are? 

That's why I'm not big on polls, or studies, although sometimes it's just good to "believe" something, but not have anything left but my personal experience, which is getting me through this taper so not knocking it oregonlady

Very good points, and thanks for sharing. 

When I was on Xanax I had a little bit of brain fog at time, but eventually got over it and could function just fine, but those damn I/D withdrawals crept up on me. Thankfully, the Valium did eliminate those, but I wonder if I even would have had them had I been on something longer acting, like Klonopin to begin with. 

Generally speaking, It seems like if something isn't working for you, then it might be a good idea to try something different. That's kinda what my logic is telling me. 

[[Md...]]

Alright, so looking back at my Valium history, I started out on just the pills. At first, the sedation and depression were unreal. The depression eventually went away for the most part, and I could get around a lot of the sedation/brain fog by eating a full meal before I dosed the pills.

Then the Valium liquid came a long, and this is when i noticed feeling overly sedated. I had Dr Josef switch me to half pills and half liquid. But needless to say, I'm still having issues. 

So here's my new question, what if I just mixed the liquid with food? Has anyone tried this before? I wonder if doing something like that would make a difference? 🤔

Edited May 18 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

18 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

So here's my new question, what if I just mixed the liquid with food? Has anyone tried this before? I wonder if doing something like that would make a difference?

Taking meds under fasted versus fed conditions can make a difference for some individuals.

What liquid are you using?  The manufacturer’s 1mg/mL oral diazepam solution?  Are you diluting it or using it as is?  

In either case, you should be fine mixing it with food.  

If you are using a compounded liquid, I suggest you check with your compounding pharmacist.

Given that you were doing ok when you were using tablets only, have you checked the ingredients in the liquid to make sure none of them are problemmatic for you?

Also, have you considered a dry taper?

[[Md...]]

28 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Taking meds under fasted versus fed conditions can make a difference for some individuals.

What liquid are you using?  The manufacturer’s 1mg/mL oral diazepam solution?  Are you diluting it or using it as is?  

In either case, you should be fine mixing it with food.  

If you are using a compounded liquid, I suggest you check with your compounding pharmacist.

Given that you were doing ok when you were using tablets only, have you checked the ingredients in the liquid to make sure none of them are problemmatic for you?

Also, have you considered a dry taper?

Thanks again for your response.

I'm using the Diazempam liquid from the manufacture, Hikma. The box says, "Each mL contains 5mg Diazepam, USP, alcohol 19%", so it's definitely not being compounded by the pharmacy.

I have thought about doing a dry taper, but Dr Josef has never brought this up to me, even after expressing my concerns multiple times about the liquid. I'm not really sure how to go about doing a dry taper, so I suppose I would need to ask him and see what he says about it. 

Maybe I'll try to mix it with food and see if that helps. 

Edited May 18 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

You’re welcome @[Md...].  

That’s interesting Dr. Josef prescribed the Intensol (concentrate) diazepam liquid (in your shoes, I’d definitely check out the ingredients).  Most of our members use the 1mg/mL liquid to taper —  indeed, you might want to ask Josef about the possibility of moving more of your dose to tablets and using the less concentrated liquid.

Re: mixing the Intensol with food …

Per its FDA Drug Label below, the manufacturer actually recommends combining it with food.

Re: dry tapers …

Dr. Josef discussed pill-shaving and weighing in one of his earlier videos so he is aware of the technique.  (I know at least one of his coaches is a strong proponent of liquid microtapers so that may have shifted his thinking — however, liquids don’t work for everyone.)

’We have many members who have tapered diazepam successfully using pill-shaving/weighing in the past plus I am aware of at least one currently active member who is using this technique. We also have members who have used professionally compounded diazepam capsules.

From the FDA label …

Proper Use of Diazepam IntensolTMOral Solution (Concentrate) 

Diazepam IntensolTM Oral Solution is a concentrated oral solution as compared to standard oral liquid medications. It is recommended that Diazepam IntensolTM Oral Solution be mixed with liquid or semi-solid food such as water, juices, soda or soda-like beverages, applesauce and puddings.

Use only the calibrated oral syringe provided with this product. Draw into the oral syringe the amount prescribed for a single dose. Then empty the oral syringe contents into a liquid or semi-solid food. Stir the liquid or food gently for a few seconds. The Diazepam IntensolTM Oral Solution formulation blends quickly and completely. The entire amount of the mixture, of drug and liquid or drug and food, should be consumed immediately. Do not store for future use.

[[Md...]]

28 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

You’re welcome @[Md...].  

That’s interesting Dr. Josef prescribed the Intensol (concentrate) diazepam liquid (in your shoes, I’d definitely check out the ingredients).  Most of our members use the 1mg/mL liquid to taper —  indeed, you might want to ask Josef about the possibility of moving more of your dose to tablets and using the less concentrated liquid.

Re: mixing the Intensol with food …

Per its FDA Drug Label below, the manufacturer actually recommends combining it with food.

Re: dry tapers …

Dr. Josef discussed pill-shaving and weighing in one of his earlier videos so he is aware of the technique.  (I know at least one of his taper coaches is a strong proponent of liquid microtapers so that may have shifted his thinking — however, liquids don’t work for everyone.)

’We have many members who have tapered diazepam successfully using pill-shaving/weighing in the past plus I am aware of at least one currently active member who is using this technique. We also have members who have used professionally compounded diazepam capsules.

From the FDA label …

Proper Use of Diazepam IntensolTMOral Solution (Concentrate) 

Diazepam IntensolTM Oral Solution is a concentrated oral solution as compared to standard oral liquid medications. It is recommended that Diazepam IntensolTM Oral Solution be mixed with liquid or semi-solid food such as water, juices, soda or soda-like beverages, applesauce and puddings.

Use only the calibrated oral syringe provided with this product. Draw into the oral syringe the amount prescribed for a single dose. Then empty the oral syringe contents into a liquid or semi-solid food. Stir the liquid or food gently for a few seconds. The Diazepam IntensolTM Oral Solution formulation blends quickly and completely. The entire amount of the mixture, of drug and liquid or drug and food, should be consumed immediately. Do not store for future use.

Thanks for looking into that.

Is there a difference between liquid concentrate and some other type of diazepam liquid? 

I definitely wasn't instructed by Dr Josef to mix this with anything. He basically just said to draw the proper amount (in my case it was 5mg per 1ml, because .5 Xanax is equivalent to 10mg of Valium, but since I was taking half pills and half liquid, it would be 5mg per 1ml), and then to take that orally with the syringe, and just wash it down.

The instructions on the box just say, "For ease of administration", or, "May also be added to applesauce, etc.), so I don't know if it's an actual recommendation per say, or more of just a suggestion to mix or combine it with something? 🤷‍♂️

Either way, maybe I'll just try to mix the concentrate with something.

I did look at the ingredients, but honestly have no clue if any of them are actually affecting my response to the medication. I guess I would have to get allergy tested to know for sure? 

 

Edited May 18 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

Just now, [[M...] said:

Is there a difference between liquid concentrate and some other type of diazepam liquid? 

Yes.  The Intensol has a concentration of 5mg/mL whereas the other liquid has a concentration of 1mg/mL.  Also the ingredients are different.

[[Md...]]

2 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Yes.  The Intensol has a concentration of 5mg/mL whereas the other liquid has a concentration of 1mg/mL.  Also the ingredients are different.

Interesting. Maybe that's why he prescribed the Intensol concentration, because that's what matches my dose. So instead of drawing 1mL 5 times, I only need to do it once. 

Edited May 18 by [Md...]