Advise stopping low dose

[[un...]]

Okay great reading the success stories and I want to join the club!

 

I have taking benzos 2mg prn on of 7+ years sometimes gone months and months without them in the last year I have a few weeks and a period of 8 weeks when was pretty much everyday. Never more than 2mg In  24hours. Recently I have manged to stop for 2weeks then I had a endoscopy last week and they gave me a benzo I didn't know! Until after.

 

 I'm now on 7 days again been getting bad anxiety,stomach jumping/spasms, mild tremors,twitching, panic attacks, no drive or enjoying the things I like.

I have introduced some cbd ,take mirtazapine 15mg at night and have a rescue remedy. 

I'm 33 male fit and healthy except from this. I was prescribed diazepam after a serious car accident and I had stomach spasms and my gp recons it's ptsd 

 

Any tips or just reassurance to help stop without destroying my mental health is appreciated. 

 

I feel like without diazepam I can't cope but I genuinely think it's the drug that causing all the issues aswell and after all the stories I don't feel relief taking it anymore as I know I just reset the clock

[[Br...]]

Hello @[un...] and welcome to BenzoBuddies!

Our bodies can become dependent on benzos pretty easily.  It sounds like this is what is happening with you. The symptoms you describe sound like common benzo withdrawal symptoms.  

If a person has developed a dependency the best approach we know of to get off benzos is a slow, gradual taper.  This causes less stress on your system and helps keep withdrawal symptoms to a minimum.  With this in mind I think it was wise for you to resume taking your regular dose.  This will very likely be the best place for you to start a gradual taper. 

We typically suggest tapering with cuts of no more than 5-10% of your most recent dose every 10-14 days.  We encourage you to pay close attention to your symptoms and let them guide how fast you taper and the size of your cuts.  if you find your symptoms are hard to manage and are interfering too much with your daily life it's probably your system telling you to slow down.  So, it's important to remain flexible.  The process can take longer than the tapers usually suggested by MDs but I believe your body and brain will thank you for it and you will feel less miserable as you get off the benzo.

You'll find a lot of good information here and support from others who understand what you're going through.

Please be sure to ask lots of questions and let us know how we can help you!

We're glad you're here!

Brighterday

[[un...]]

Thanks briterday 

 

I have been looking just hesitant as don't want to stumble on to many of the scary posts. If get me.

 

I get what your saying but I haven't took a 2mg for 7days and prior to that 2weeks. It has been rough but if take again am I just reseting the withdrawal? 

And it's been couple months since I was taking everyday and that was on 2mg diazepam or half even a 1/4. I don't really know what to take.

 

A half? Then a 1/4 in a week? I'm abit lost 

 

Thanks for taking time to respond to me mate 

[[PE...]]

2 hours ago, [[u...] said:

Thanks briterday 

I have been looking just hesitant as don't want to stumble on to many of the scary posts. If get me.

I get what your saying but I haven't took a 2mg for 7days and prior to that 2weeks. It has been rough but if take again am I just reseting the withdrawal? 

And it's been couple months since I was taking everyday and that was on 2mg diazepam or half even a 1/4. I don't really know what to take.

A half? Then a 1/4 in a week? I'm abit lost 

Thanks for taking time to respond to me mate 

Hi!

If it was me i would try to tough it out. The benzo you got last week wont effect much.

If it gets too uncomfortable you might try a faster taper. And as you haven't taking it everyday it seems like overkill to make a year long taper IMO. 

 

[[PE...]]

1 minute ago, [[P...] said:

Hi!

If it was me i would try to tough it out. The benzo you got last week wont effect much.

If it gets too uncomfortable you might try a faster taper. And as you haven't taking it everyday it seems like overkill to make a year long taper IMO. 

But it's really up to you and what you feel is doable. 

[[st...]]

 

Hi, how I got off my last 2 mg tablets of valium is by daily reduction or chipping away the 1st milligram half over 7 weeks and the last mg half over 8 more weeks. But this was only because in total I came down from 45mg so the body needed gradual reduction of what it accumulated. They say it takes about 4 weeks for 90% of accumulated valium drug to leave the body. If my starting point was 2mg daily, it would have been a smaller hill to come off of.

Here is what Dr. Heather Ashton manual says about the last mg’s:
https://www.benzoinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Ashton-Manual.pdf
“Getting off the last tablet: Stopping the last few milligrams is often viewed as particularly difficult. This is mainly due to fear of how you will cope without any drug at all. In fact, the final parting is surprisingly easy. People are usually delighted by the new sense of freedom gained. In any case the 1mg or 0.5mg diazepam per day which you are taking at the end of your schedule is having little effect apart from keeping the dependence going. Do not be tempted to spin out the withdrawal to a ridiculously slow rate towards the end (such as 0.25mg each month). Take the plunge when you reach 0.5mg daily; full recovery cannot begin until you have got off your tablets completely. Some people after completing withdrawal like to carry around a few tablets with them for security "just in case", but find that they rarely if ever use them.”

 

[[ja...]]

5 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Hello @[un...] and welcome to BenzoBuddies!

Our bodies can become dependent on benzos pretty easily.  It sounds like this is what is happening with you. The symptoms you describe sound like common benzo withdrawal symptoms.  

If a person has developed a dependency the best approach we know of to get off benzos is a slow, gradual taper.  This causes less stress on your system and helps keep withdrawal symptoms to a minimum.  With this in mind I think it was wise for you to resume taking your regular dose.  This will very likely be the best place for you to start a gradual taper. 

We typically suggest tapering with cuts of no more than 5-10% of your most recent dose every 10-14 days.  We encourage you to pay close attention to your symptoms and let them guide how fast you taper and the size of your cuts.  if you find your symptoms are hard to manage and are interfering too much with your daily life it's probably your system telling you to slow down.  So, it's important to remain flexible.  The process can take longer than the tapers usually suggested by MDs but I believe your body and brain will thank you for it and you will feel less miserable as you get off the benzo.

You'll find a lot of good information here and support from others who understand what you're going through.

Please be sure to ask lots of questions and let us know how we can help you!

We're glad you're here!

Brighterday

 

[[ja...]]

Have you ever heard of anyone taking Valium PRN who did not become dependent and reach tolerance? I have been off Xanax for one year. I used it 20 years. Utter hell in past year. I took one Valium yesterday and have calm. But I know the pitfalls of this trap. Do you know of an alternative med for anxiety?

[[Br...]]

5 hours ago, [[u...] said:

Thanks briterday 

I have been looking just hesitant as don't want to stumble on to many of the scary posts. If get me.

I get what your saying but I haven't took a 2mg for 7days and prior to that 2weeks. It has been rough but if take again am I just reseting the withdrawal? 

And it's been couple months since I was taking everyday and that was on 2mg diazepam or half even a 1/4. I don't really know what to take.

A half? Then a 1/4 in a week? I'm abit lost 

Thanks for taking time to respond to me mate 

Hi @[un...] - I think I misunderstood what you wrote - I thought you meant you had reinstated.  Instead, it looks like it's been 3 weeks since you stopped taking Valium - is that correct?  If so, I tend to agree with @[PE...] that it may not make sense for you to go back to taking Valium.  

Prior to your last dose of Valium, were you taking smaller doses, that is tapering down your dose at all?

I wouldn't worry about the one-time benzo for your endoscopy. 

[[Br...]]

 

43 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Have you ever heard of anyone taking Valium PRN who did not become dependent and reach tolerance? I have been off Xanax for one year. I used it 20 years. Utter hell in past year. I took one Valium yesterday and have calm. But I know the pitfalls of this trap. Do you know of an alternative med for anxiety?

I'm glad you recognize the potential for falling back into regular use of benzos.  As you know, it's a slippery slope.  I'm guessing you worked really hard to get off of Xanax after 20 years and that you wouldn't want to go through that again.  I hear you about how rough it is  for you a year out and how you're tormented by anxiety.  But I think it's important that you understand you have more healing ahead of you and that the anxiety of benzo withdrawal will very likely become more manageable as you heal.  At a year post jump you have a lot of healing behind you but for many of us, significant healing and recovery take closer to 2 years.  

Introducing a new medication can be helpful for some individuals but for others it can complicate things by creating new symptoms.  The problem is we don't know in advance who will be helped and who will end up with symptoms that we can't figure out the cause of.  

Have you checked out the Insomnia Depression & Anxiety forum?  You may find some helpful posts there and you could post there with your questions.

 

[[Bu...]]

@[st...] does that occur every 4 weeks? Your body flushes out 90%? Or after cessation? I wonder if you could expand on how you did the daily taper? Would you be open to a PM? Thanks 

[[...]]

15 hours ago, [[u...] said:

Thanks briterday 

I have been looking just hesitant as don't want to stumble on to many of the scary posts. If get me.

I get what your saying but I haven't took a 2mg for 7days and prior to that 2weeks. It has been rough but if take again am I just reseting the withdrawal? 

And it's been couple months since I was taking everyday and that was on 2mg diazepam or half even a 1/4. I don't really know what to take.

A half? Then a 1/4 in a week? I'm abit lost 

Thanks for taking time to respond to me mate 

@[un...], you're welcome to join the club!) Guess you can find lots of other useful and distractive things apart from Success Stories here

I suppose the most crucial thing about withdrawing benzo is to listen to your body taking into account that you will most probably experience unpleasant sensations and weird symptoms for a while. If you can somehow put up with what you live through atm, then you should go on. I agree with Brighterday and Peppe it doesn't seem reasonable for you to get back on benzo. You're healthy otherwise. Your benzo use was hardly systematic, never too much and you've already managed to hold on for 3 weeks, one time benzo doesn't count much. Besides you take mirtazapine, which seems to be working for you. Think It'll help you further. I myself have been taking mirt to smooth the wd. For me, it turned out to be very helpful during the hard time. Just my opinion.

Good luck to you!)

 

[[un...]]

Thanks for all the great feedback so the day after the colonscopy I had 1 2mg as was really anxious about a appointment  prior to that I had a 2mg and a 1mg 15th and 16th of April then nothing two weeks prior to that. 

 

Today woke up feeling good then I got anxious after an hour being awake for no reason few sprays of rescue remedy and I pushed myself to go out went and got my caravan to clean ready for the season. Had real bad anxiety when picked it up physically shaking so stopped for 5mins and took some breaths . Got it home so I got something to keep me busy next few days.

My stomach hasn't stopped jumping spasming? Tried mebervine,peppermint probiotics low fodmap and buscopan nothing helps. All bloods normal . I'm not celiac and currently trying dairy elimination day 2 of that. Recon is the diazepam... 

I'm not going to lie it is really hard at the moment and feel embarrassed as I can't imagine what some of you must of gone through stopping xanax ect it is poison. 

I have a young family but moved areas to get away from idiots and don't have friends or family. I think that plays apart In my anxiety big time. 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

1 hour ago, [[u...] said:

Thanks for all the great feedback so the day after the colonscopy I had 1 2mg as was really anxious about a appointment  prior to that I had a 2mg and a 1mg 15th and 16th of April then nothing two weeks prior to that. 

Today woke up feeling good then I got anxious after an hour being awake for no reason few sprays of rescue remedy and I pushed myself to go out went and got my caravan to clean ready for the season. Had real bad anxiety when picked it up physically shaking so stopped for 5mins and took some breaths . Got it home so I got something to keep me busy next few days.

My stomach hasn't stopped jumping spasming? Tried mebervine,peppermint probiotics low fodmap and buscopan nothing helps. All bloods normal . I'm not celiac and currently trying dairy elimination day 2 of that. Recon is the diazepam... 

I'm not going to lie it is really hard at the moment and feel embarrassed as I can't imagine what some of you must of gone through stopping xanax ect it is poison. 

I have a young family but moved areas to get away from idiots and don't have friends or family. I think that plays apart In my anxiety big time. 

@[un...], as for me, you seem to be doing quite well and ready to "fight" and win. I guess all the bad anxiety and spasming are common benzo WD symptoms, I know them and many others for myself too well. If your medical tests are ok and what you're dealing with atm is caused by benzo, which, i think, is the case, it's bound to subside even on its own over time.

Sure all the external stress affects you and may worsen your condition but, by my own experience, not critically. I mean the healing is taking place anyway. Keep going!)

 

[[st...]]

 

14 hours ago, [[B...] said:

@[st...] does that occur every 4 weeks? Your body flushes out 90%? Or after cessation? I wonder if you could expand on how you did the daily taper? Would you be open to a PM? Thanks 

 

Hi, my answer might interest others so I’ll summarize here with a general example.

Elimination of valium or diazepam happens constantly (not just when stopping) at a certain rate. If I keep swallowing a new pill everyday, I’ll be replacing what was eliminated, which will continue to keep a steady level within the body. But if I stopped all together, it’ll take about a month for the body to eliminate most of it.

So when a single 2 mg valium pill is swallowed every day, portion of each dose stays in the body for many days. These "not yet eliminated" portions combine and grow over time into a larger concentration that could reach about 7 mg.

I’ll illustrate this with a simple schedule of a daily 2 mg over one week.
- Columns are individual 2 mg pills
- Rows show each day’s total concentration

 

The assumption used here is that each daily dose diminishes by half (or has a half-life) over 2 days time (because it’s only 7 days here, it was not enough time to reach 7 mg peak concentration but 6.38 mg as highlighted):

 

[[jo...]]

[[Md...]]

21 hours ago, [[j...] said:

 Do you know of an alternative med for anxiety?

Buspar, Oxcarbazepine/Trileptal (it would be used off label for anxiety), and possibly other anticonvulsants, like Gabapentin, but apparently that can be difficult to get off of as well. Beta blockers can help with the physical symptoms of anxiety.

There's other things like agmatine, memantine, magnesium glycinate, l-theanine, etc.

The problem is that no one really knows how you'll respond to any of them until you try it. They could make things better or worse. 

I personally take Oxcarbazepine and magnesium glycinate. Both are helpful, but I was prescribed Oxcarb for a totally different reason than anxiety. I just find that it helps with anxiety, but there can be side fx if you take too high of a dose. 

I think things like walking, meditating, massages, swimming, yoga, listening to music, warm baths, avoiding certain foods or drinks, identifying/eliminating external stressors, acceptance, and practicing mindfulness can all help with anxiety. It's really a multidisciplinary approach, for me anyways.

Edited May 2 by [Md...]

[[st...]]

18 hours ago, [[B...] said:

@[st...] I wonder if you could expand on how you did the daily taper? 

 

Hi, by the way, regarding original post, if I was off from a smaller dose for weeks already and could get through the symptoms, I would rather not get back on valium. Only reason I had to take it slow is because going fast, while still on klonopin, gave me a seizure on 2nd day after stopping.

To answer about tapers, I had a limited number of tablets and I wanted to be off as quick as possible.  First I calculated amounts in dose mgs, then I translated to tablet weight mgs. Because the actual reduction is based on the weight of the tablets, I had a jewelry scale (like this one: https://www.amazon.com/AWS-Portable-Precision-Digital-Milligram/dp/B0012TDNAM?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1 ) to weigh them and to slice away the right amount. Example here:

 One 2 mg tablet weighed 170 mg so if I needed 1.985 mg dose, I’d divide 1.985 by 2 and multiply by 170 mg:     1.985 / 2 = 0.9925 x 170 = 168.7 mg -> 0.1687 grams on scale.

How I did it was a combo of two methods.

At first, mostly while in higher doses of valium, I reduced by taking a percentage of previous day’s balance.  It’s a slower reduction, softer landing, less symptoms, more gradual descent.

 So I was reducing by 0.75% of yesterday’s dose. (over 2 weeks that’s 10% = 14 x 0.75%). Here is an example if it was at 2mg, reduction amounts look like same 0.015 due to rounding:

day 1 reduction 2.000 mg x 0.0075 = 0.015 out of 2.000 mg = 1.985 = day 1 dose
day 2 reduction 1.985 mg x 0.0075 = 0.015 out of 1.985 mg = 1.970 = day 2 dose
day 3 reduction 1.970 mg x 0.0075 = 0.015 out of 1.970 mg = 1.955 = day 3 dose
day 4 reduction 1.955 mg x 0.0075 = 0.015 out of 1.955 mg = 1.940 = day 4 dose
day 5 reduction 1.940 mg x 0.0075 = 0.015 out of 1.940 mg = 1.925 = day 5 dose
day 6 reduction 1.925 mg x 0.0075 = 0.014 out of 1.925 mg = 1.911 = day 6 dose
and keep going till swallowing dust

When I reached lower doses, I started reducing by a fixed amount, based only on a percentage of first whole mg.

So I reduced by 0.95% of 2 mg every day (over 2 weeks that’s 13.3% = 14 x 0.95%). Here again is an example if it was at 2mg:

day 1 reduction 2.000 mg x 0.0095 = 0.019 out of 2.000 mg = 1.981 = day 1 dose
day 2 reduction                                   0.019 out of 1.981 mg = 1.962 = day 2 dose
day 3 reduction                                   0.019 out of 1.962 mg = 1.943 = day 3 dose
day 4 reduction                                   0.019 out of 1.943 mg = 1.924 = day 4 dose
day 5 reduction                                   0.019 out of 1.924 mg = 1.905 = day 5 dose
day 6 reduction                                   0.019 out of 1.905 mg = 1.886 = day 6 dose
and so on till it’s all gone

 

 

[[...]]

2 hours ago, [[j...] said:

Hi Kate

Hi Kate, I myself am thinking of taking an antidepressant to help with my symptoms. If you wouldn't mind would you elaborate a little on how it helped you through the tougher times. My worst symptoms are anxiety and depression and I feel like if I can get them under control I could handle things a lot better. Many Thanks.

Hi, Jonwill) Yes, sure. Mirtazapine was first prescribed to treat my inexplicable headaches developed on benzo. I was told they might have been partly caused by depression. I started growing mirt and tapering benzo at about the same time. Having reached its full dose i jumped off benzo. I did have side effects and it didn't cover most of my wd symptoms but somehow relieved the headaches a bit and i never felt depressed. Whatever but not it. I think mirt helped me with my moods too. But i've always felt its presence bothering me. That's why i'm tapering it now. Hope i'm really close to the end of the process.

The most risky point about antidepressants is you'll never guess which one is suitable exactly for you. It can make you feel worse as it happened to me when i tried zoloft. I'd think twice and more before trying one but if you feel really unbearable it may help. 

How long have you been off benzo? Anxiety and depression caused by its withdrawal are likely to be resolved by themselves. I do hope it's your case.

[[jo...]]

[[Tw...]]

On 01/05/2024 at 11:15, [[u...] said:

Okay great reading the success stories and I want to join the club!

I have taking benzos 2mg prn on of 7+ years sometimes gone months and months without them in the last year I have a few weeks and a period of 8 weeks when was pretty much everyday. Never more than 2mg In  24hours. Recently I have manged to stop for 2weeks then I had a endoscopy last week and they gave me a benzo I didn't know! Until after.

 I'm now on 7 days again been getting bad anxiety,stomach jumping/spasms, mild tremors,twitching, panic attacks, no drive or enjoying the things I like.

I have introduced some cbd ,take mirtazapine 15mg at night and have a rescue remedy. 

I'm 33 male fit and healthy except from this. I was prescribed diazepam after a serious car accident and I had stomach spasms and my gp recons it's ptsd 

Any tips or just reassurance to help stop without destroying my mental health is appreciated. 

I feel like without diazepam I can't cope but I genuinely think it's the drug that causing all the issues aswell and after all the stories I don't feel relief taking it anymore as I know I just reset the clock

Try a slow taper off of the diazepam. Remember that the benzodiazepine is Poison to your body and brain . Believe and Have Faith that you can cope with life well  without the diazepam. And you are right that it's the drug causing all of the issues. You can ask for help for the slow taper from the doctor who prescribed your benzodiazepine. 

[[un...]]

Thanks for response.

Just to add I was discharged by my mental health team this week as they think the condition is physical they offered benzos on repeat or haraperadol for the sedation(don't have psychosis or schizophrenia). They have sent my gp repeat and i refused the haraperadol. So they no longer want an open referral as it's an opportunity for the specialist to past the batton and blame my issues on mental health.

They believe I have diaphragm flutters. I have neurologist In July. 

What would people say Is a good milestone for getting the worst of withdrawal out the way? 

I want to discard the diazepam I have but I'm worried in case I need them. 

 

 

[[...]]

1 hour ago, [[u...] said:

Thanks for response.

Just to add I was discharged by my mental health team this week as they think the condition is physical they offered benzos on repeat or haraperadol for the sedation(don't have psychosis or schizophrenia). They have sent my gp repeat and i refused the haraperadol. So they no longer want an open referral as it's an opportunity for the specialist to past the batton and blame my issues on mental health.

They believe I have diaphragm flutters. I have neurologist In July. 

What would people say Is a good milestone for getting the worst of withdrawal out the way? 

I want to discard the diazepam I have but I'm worried in case I need them. 

@[un...], how're you today? It's close to 1 months of you being benzo free, right?

Do you have painful issues with your diaphragm? Exactly today my diaphragm's gone mad. It may happen during the withdrawal. Good you're going to check it. Pity you have to wait till July.

Do you mean how long it can take to get over the acute phase? As far as my observations go, there are no clear time frames for benzo withdrawal. We're soo different. I felt better in my 9 th month. A girl i know very well got better in her 2d month... etc. There are too many things to consider. Taking into account your pattern of benzo use, i do hope it won't take you too long.

 

 

 

[[un...]]

It's not painful it's just spasms/jumps but gets worse sometimes  and get a bit short of breath then rightly so my Brain goes into a panic like episode. 

Then get tremors,twitch and can't really process anything.

 

I'm hoping it's been a constant withdrawal cycle and stopping completely will settle things down 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

@[un...], yes, i'm sure your brain will sort it out to the best of its ability, especially if you didn't have the issue prior to the wd. Did you have anything of the kind before the benzo mess?

You're too early in the withdrawal to expect all the symptoms to be settled down right now. They might get even a bit more unpleasant sometimes but must go for good eventually. And the panic sure makes everything worse but, guess, the panik itself is a symptom, which is to subside over time too. I wouldn't write it if i hadn't experienced all the torture for myself. Keep going!