Too fast taper from Lorafen (Lorazepam) - hit by strong withdrawal symptoms - in need of help

[[zo...]]

Dear Buddies, if I had found this forum 2 weeks ago, I guess my hell would not have started... Beginning of January this year I started to suffer increased tinnitus. I got severe anxiety and by the end of January I basically could not sleep. I went to psychiatrist and was prescribed 1mg Lorazepam to take before going to sleep as long as I want.  The psychiatrist did not tell me how dangerous this drug is, she said she had been taking 0.25mg Lorazepam herself for 2 years and she felt good. Anyway, I took 1mg for 7 weeks, indeed it worked very well for my anxiety but in the meantime I found out it that anything more than 2-4 weeks is not good. Also I felt very sleepy in the morning and could get going only from around 1-2 p.m. So I though I would discontinue (I did not consult it with the psychiatrist) but I was not aware that tapering should take time... I went from 1mg to 0.25mg in... 10 days. I took 0.75mg - 4 days, 0.5 - 4 days and 0.25mg - 2 days. BIG MISTAKE.... On day 10 (which is today, 9 April),  I am felling extremely tired and basically cannot get up from bed. I got scared, I started to search more in the internet, found this forum and my eyes opened to how careful one has to be with tempering.... And how awful withdrawal symptoms can be... Based on what I read in some of the posts I am considering updosing to 1mg. Is it a reasonable decision? Thank you very, very much for your support in advance! PS1. I am feeling much worse right now than before I started to temper, despite the fact that before the temper I started to function from 1-2 pm, I had felt very well till the end of the day. PS2. As I said I wish I had found this forum earlier....

[[El...]]

Here is a video that might be useful to you about up-dosing.

 

Hope this helps!

 

[[Re...]]

Hello @[zo...], Welcome to BenzoBuddies! I am glad you found us!

I am really sorry you were hit by withdrawal symptoms, what you mention is common among our members.

Seven weeks is shorter than how long most of our members have been on benzodiazepines, but it is -sadly - enough to form dependency. Sometimes it takes a short time for these medications to cause trouble, some people are just more sensitive than others. 

Although withdrawal symptoms tend to ease up on their own with time, your functionality is an important factor to consider. If you are unable to continue your daily tasks and responsibilities - you mention the crushing fatigue, it might be a wise choice to reinstate. This decision is, of course, yours  and your doctors to make. I would personally look for a lower dose than 1 mg to reinstate, these medications are really potent, 0,25 mg and even 0,5 mg binds to significant amount of our GABA receptors. The disadvantage of reinstatement is possible kindling and depency might get deeper.

If you do not choose to reinstate, symptoms might take a while to resolve. I can not tell you precisely how long it could take. 

I am sorry for the situation you found yourself in, please let us know how we can help you. Whatever you choose we are here for you. We have a Taper Strategies section with some good ideas

Take care @[zo...]!

[[zo...]]

Dear @ReubenRalph, Dear @EllieM thank you very much for such swift and valuable support. I think I will updose then, I was doing big cuts (way too big....) Will try to updose tonight to 0.75mg, hope will stabilize at this level and then come back to cutting 5-10% per 10-14 days. Currently, in addition to fatigue I got hold by increased anxiety:-(

All the best for you and all Forum's members:-)    

[[ns...]]

34 minutes ago, [[z...] said:

Dear @ReubenRalph, Dear @EllieM thank you very much for such swift and valuable support. I think I will updose then, I was doing big cuts (way too big....) Will try to updose tonight to 0.75mg, hope will stabilize at this level and then come back to cutting 5-10% per 10-14 days. Currently, in addition to fatigue I got hold by increased anxiety:-(

All the best for you and all Forum's members:-)    

Here's a link to a scale and file. You'll probably need these.

Good luck with your taper 

Ns

 

Lobodt Stainless Steel Nail File, Double-Sided Nail File, Metal Nail File, Reusable Natural Nail Art File, Nail Art Tool, Home Salon or Travel Mini Nail File Suitable for Both Men and Women 
https://a.co/d/ajTLJBi

 

Smart Weigh GEM20-20g x 0.001 grams, High Precision Digital Milligram Jewelry Scale, Reloading, Jewelry and Gems Scale, Calibration Weights and Tweezers Included 
https://a.co/d/4jmoRf8

[[Be...]]

Dear Buddies,

I am so grateful to have found you folks! I'm still figuring out how to navigate this site but already feel an immense sense of relief just reading everyone's stories. Realizing I am not alone gives me hope; THANK YOU for that!

I have been on this benzo journey since Jan/Feb 2024 when my pain management doc of 11 years first went MIA. Without a prescriber, I went off morphine and Valium (15 mg 3x/ day for 11 years) cold turkey. We still do not know if he left voluntarily or not, but that's a whole other story.

I was first prescribed 15 mg Valium three times/day by my neurosurgeon in November 2013 for muscle spasms after my fourth major spinal surgery (diskectomy / deccompression/ clean up C4-5 to T1-2). After discharge, my pain management doc kept me on the same dose. None of my docs told me the damage long term use /cold turkey would cause.

The highlights of my medical history include severe scoliosis (double S curves, rotation, & cobb angle of 49) complicated by erosive osteoarthritis and osteoporosis. I have had 3 shoulder replacements.  I'm losing my vision to Retinitis Pigmentosa (RP) aka tunnel vision; I have about 5% of my visual field left. Physical and visual conditions resulted in being medically retired at age 48 from my beloved career as RN Director at a large health system in Orange County, CA.  I've been married to the man of my dreams for 40 years and we're blessed by 2 daughters (37 and 39) and four grandbabies.

So that's my summary . As soon as I figure out how, I will update my profile with my benzo history, dose, etc :-)  

THANK YOU for the amazing information, support and this amazing little corner of the web!

 

[[Br...]]

Hello @[Be...] and welcome to BenzoBuddies!  We're glad you found us.

I'm so sorry you've been through such a hard series of troubles. It's unconscionable you were forced to CT both your pain med and Valium.  How are you doing?  

It looks like you've already found a lot of good information here.  Now that you're a member we hope you'll ask any questions you have and reach out for support. Please feel free to start a topic of your own.

We're glad you're here!

Brighterday

 

[[Nu...]]

Such a tough journey -- thoughts are with you! Use the forum as a resource with anything you need. There's a lot of experience here. Glad you're here and we're here to help.

NB

[[Ca...]]

Welcome to BB. Funny how those doctors disapppear. It sounds like you have been dealing with a lot of health issues. It would be good to find a benzo wise doctor to figure out how to go forward from here.

[[zo...]]

Dear Buddies, I feel less fatigue today morning after updosing from 0.25mg to 0.75mg, but anxiety is high:-( I know that all depends on a given person and his/her case, but do you know how long on average it may take to stabilize after the updosing?

Best to all of you!

Zoltan

@nsindy thank you for the links!

[[Re...]]

Hello @[zo...], unfortunately updosing, too, may take some time to take effect, but I can assure you that it will. Please try to be patient and gentle to yourself.

It seems that we can not rush anything when it comes to recovery from these medications. 

[[zo...]]

I have just talked to my psychiatrist. She said that my 10-day temper from 1mg to 0.25mg was fast but not too fast... (in her view it should be 14-day, not 10-day...). I admit that she very much surprised me with this statement but I did not argue.... ANYWAY, she also said that because I reacted so badly to my temper, probably I developed depression from January (due to my increased tinnitus) which has been partially masked by Lorafen so far. She said that it is extremely difficult to discontinue Lorafen (being the only drug taken) when having depression. She believes that in order to be able to discontinue Lorafen - assuming that I am having depression - I should start taking some antidepressant (she mentioned  for example Citalopram). I admit I may have a depression, I have difficulties to get up in the morning, I currently do not go to work so I can stay in bed till 1-2 pm.  I am very scared to take any antidepressants as I have checked - their common side effect is... tinnitus. Plus it is another drug which heavily affects the brain.

May I ask you:

1. Have you seen cases where being in depression and taking benzo as the only drug made it impossible to taper off the benzo?

2. Have you seen cases where starting to take antidepressants made it easier to taper off the benzo? (assuming that a person has depression)?

3. To give my any other hints/suggestions?

My psychiatrist said that alternatively I can try to temper off Lorafen without the antidepressant but she has doubts whether I succeed. I have scheduled a meeting with her for Friday and should make up my mind by then.

Cheers!

PS. She said that updosing to 0.75mg was a right thing. 

[[Be...]]

THANK YOU for the warm welcome! It's such a breath of fresh air to be validated and not be treated like crazy, drug-seeking hypochondriacs because they don't understand benzos. 

I am struggling with even putting words down. Something I've never been short of before. I am excited to get to know everyone and look forward to everything this site has to offer.

 

[[El...]]

I am not a doctor nor am I on an antidepressant. I know that there are several people on this forum that are using an antidepressant while tapering and find it helpful. And, there also many on this forum who are successfully tapering without an antidepressant. I really think each person has a unique set of circumstances and a unique background. Each is an individual case.

But it confuses me why your doctor is so eager to prescribe an antidepressant when you did not even present with depression? I understand that you remain in bed. Is that because you are tired (perhaps an effect of the lorazepam), or you have the leisure to stay in bed because you are not working, or you don’t feel well, or some other reason other than depression? I am also on lorazepam and it does make me feel tired, while paradoxically causing insomnia. But I also have been able to taper from 3 mg down to almost 0.6 mg since last April. I think it is entirely possible, and probable, that I can be successful completing my taper without an antidepressant. It is not easy. There are many days that I just do not feel well at all…and there are many days I feel depressed. But, I think my depression stems from how long it is taking, and will continue to take, to be free of this medication and how sorry (and angry!) I am that I ever started. But with a slow taper I am able to remain functional. And, I even have some really good days! You sound like you do not even know if you are depressed. So, I guess, if I were you, I would be hesitant to start an antidepressant unless you can definitively say to yourself that you are depressed. At the very least, I would give myself time to adjust to my up dose to see how I feel. It might be that as you stabilize and then begin a gradual taper, some of your “tiredness” will dissipate. Remember, if you start an antidepressant, that is another drug you will ultimately have to taper.

 

[[ns...]]

5 hours ago, [[z...] said:

I have just talked to my psychiatrist. She said that my 10-day temper from 1mg to 0.25mg was fast but not too fast... (in her view it should be 14-day, not 10-day...). I admit that she very much surprised me with this statement but I did not argue.... ANYWAY, she also said that because I reacted so badly to my temper, probably I developed depression from January (due to my increased tinnitus) which has been partially masked by Lorafen so far. She said that it is extremely difficult to discontinue Lorafen (being the only drug taken) when having depression. She believes that in order to be able to discontinue Lorafen - assuming that I am having depression - I should start taking some antidepressant (she mentioned  for example Citalopram). I admit I may have a depression, I have difficulties to get up in the morning, I currently do not go to work so I can stay in bed till 1-2 pm.  I am very scared to take any antidepressants as I have checked - their common side effect is... tinnitus. Plus it is another drug which heavily affects the brain.

May I ask you:

1. Have you seen cases where being in depression and taking benzo as the only drug made it impossible to taper off the benzo?

2. Have you seen cases where starting to take antidepressants made it easier to taper off the benzo? (assuming that a person has depression)?

3. To give my any other hints/suggestions?

My psychiatrist said that alternatively I can try to temper off Lorafen without the antidepressant but she has doubts whether I succeed. I have scheduled a meeting with her for Friday and should make up my mind by then.

Cheers!

PS. She said that updosing to 0.75mg was a right thing. 

I'm going fo chime in here.

You absolutely can taper without an ssri!

It takes time and everyone is different. Your doctor is wrong in my opinion. 2 weeks to taper is way to fast, take it from me!

I was forced tapered in a 6 week period, it was and is still a nightmare. I'm back tapering slowly because of this. I hope you wull consider finding a new doctor before you end up without the prescription you need to finish a proper taper. 

Yes its difficult to taper any benzo, but it's difficult to taper many drugs. Brnzo are the most difficult I believe.

Adding another drug isnt aways the answer. I cant speak for other's but i took celexa and it was a nightmare, then zoloft, it was worse! I didn't stay on them. I had experience with celexa in the past, it's a terrible drug and very difficult to taper off. But I did. It took yrs!

I'm sorry, but i get really upset when hearing this from so many here. My doctor thinks I should take an ssri! 

Tapering a benzo is difficult, but doable. Adding another drug only complicates things in my opinion. If you can do without it, please think seriously about this beforehand. 

Read the many members here who have been prescribed ssri on top.of a benzo who are hurting, suffering from these drugs. 

If you suffer from depression, why were you prescribed a benzo instead of an ssri initially. Sounds like you have anxiety and your doctor is trying to get herself off the hook and doesn't know a thing about benzo withdrawal!

I hope you can find a benzo wise doctor. Someone who understands the complexities of withdrawal who has compassion for their patients. If not, I would download a copy of the ashton manual and give it to her, she needs to be educated!

You'll find that many here are more experienced in taper strategies and withdrawal symptoms etc hope you take advantage of this site and lean on those here who can assist you with a proper taper. 

If you suffer from depression from benzo withdrawal, it usually comes and goes and there are many alternatives other rhan another drug. 

If you suffer from anxiety disorder there are alternatives to benzos as well. 

I sincerely hope you will do your diligence in researching the affects of ssri and benzo combination. Its entirely up to u of course what you decide. I only want what's best for you, but I couldn't help but to add my thoughts and experiences here.

Take care 

Ns

 

[[ns...]]

1 minute ago, [[n...] said:

I'm going fo chime in here.

You absolutely can taper without an ssri!

It takes time and everyone is different. Your doctor is wrong in my opinion. 2 weeks to taper is way to fast, take it from me!

I was forced tapered in a 6 week period, it was and is still a nightmare. I'm back tapering slowly because of this. I hope you wull consider finding a new doctor before you end up without the prescription you need to finish a proper taper. 

Yes its difficult to taper any benzo, but it's difficult to taper many drugs. Brnzo are the most difficult I believe.

Adding another drug isnt aways the answer. I cant speak for other's but i took celexa and it was a nightmare, then zoloft, it was worse! I didn't stay on them. I had experience with celexa in the past, it's a terrible drug and very difficult to taper off. But I did. It took yrs!

I'm sorry, but i get really upset when hearing this from so many here. My doctor thinks I should take an ssri! 

Tapering a benzo is difficult, but doable. Adding another drug only complicates things in my opinion. If you can do without it, please think seriously about this beforehand. 

Read the many members here who have been prescribed ssri on top.of a benzo who are hurting, suffering from these drugs. 

If you suffer from depression, why were you prescribed a benzo instead of an ssri initially. Sounds like you have anxiety and your doctor is trying to get herself off the hook and doesn't know a thing about benzo withdrawal!

I hope you can find a benzo wise doctor. Someone who understands the complexities of withdrawal who has compassion for their patients. If not, I would download a copy of the ashton manual and give it to her, she needs to be educated!

You'll find that many here are more experienced in taper strategies and withdrawal symptoms etc hope you take advantage of this site and lean on those here who can assist you with a proper taper. 

If you suffer from depression from benzo withdrawal, it usually comes and goes and there are many alternatives other rhan another drug. 

If you suffer from anxiety disorder there are alternatives to benzos as well. 

I sincerely hope you will do your diligence in researching the affects of ssri and benzo combination. Its entirely up to u of course what you decide. I only want what's best for you, but I couldn't help but to add my thoughts and experiences here.

Take care 

Ns

I'd like to add here that trey Jones anxiety on YouTube can be a great help for anxiety disorder, ocd, ptsd, panic disorder etc 

Emma with therapy in a nutshell on YouTube is another great one for depression and anxiety 

Take care 

Ns

[[zo...]]

Dear @nsindy, Dear @EllieM , thank you very, very much for your thoughts and sharing your personal experience. I appreciate it! 

I admit that yesterday when taking to my doctor I felt very skeptical about her idea of taking an SRRI to "cure" my benzo withdrawal symptoms... In the meantime I consulted with another psychiatrist and he said that I should take an SRRI, but only if I have depression. So it seems that the key question to myself is - do I have depression? I admit my mood was low when I was hit by tinnitus in January but when I met with my doctor in February she did not diagnose me depression and prescribed only Lorafen for sleeping problems and anxiety.... But things indeed might have changed in the meantime and my depression developed.... I stayed that long in bed because I did not have strength to get up earlier... I was blaming Lorafen for it but who knows - I might have been wrong.... But it is something I have to figure out myself...

But anyway, I think that based on what you wrote SSRI is the last option to consider and for the time being I will try to talk to my doctor to wait  and see if I manage to stabilize after updosing and only after it to make a further decision. I am 2 days after updosing and still feeling very miserable - I have constant high anxiety, I have problems with sleep and feeling very tired all the time. I must say that I miss my time from before the taper - although I felt tired, it was only till 1-2 pm, felt only mild anxiety from time to time and could sleep 8-10 hours without any problem.

I know it is a kind of "stupid" question - but do I have chances that I will stabilize and come back to how I felt (more or less) before the temper? If yes, how long it may take? I am asking these questions as I am really scared and try to keep hope that I will be OK. I know it is not a medically relevant factor but my spouse is very angry with me for what I did to myself with the temper which additionally stresses me out. Dear @[...]nsindy you mentioned below:

 

18 hours ago, [[n...] said:

I was forced tapered in a 6 week period, it was and is still a nightmare. I'm back tapering slowly because of this.

 

Does it mean you reinstated? How long did it take before you stabilized?

Best!

 

 

[[ns...]]

4 hours ago, [[z...] said:

Dear @nsindy, Dear @EllieM , thank you very, very much for your thoughts and sharing your personal experience. I appreciate it! 

I admit that yesterday when taking to my doctor I felt very skeptical about her idea of taking an SRRI to "cure" my benzo withdrawal symptoms... In the meantime I consulted with another psychiatrist and he said that I should take an SRRI, but only if I have depression. So it seems that the key question to myself is - do I have depression? I admit my mood was low when I was hit by tinnitus in January but when I met with my doctor in February she did not diagnose me depression and prescribed only Lorafen for sleeping problems and anxiety.... But things indeed might have changed in the meantime and my depression developed.... I stayed that long in bed because I did not have strength to get up earlier... I was blaming Lorafen for it but who knows - I might have been wrong.... But it is something I have to figure out myself...

But anyway, I think that based on what you wrote SSRI is the last option to consider and for the time being I will try to talk to my doctor to wait  and see if I manage to stabilize after updosing and only after it to make a further decision. I am 2 days after updosing and still feeling very miserable - I have constant high anxiety, I have problems with sleep and feeling very tired all the time. I must say that I miss my time from before the taper - although I felt tired, it was only till 1-2 pm, felt only mild anxiety from time to time and could sleep 8-10 hours without any problem.

I know it is a kind of "stupid" question - but do I have chances that I will stabilize and come back to how I felt (more or less) before the temper? If yes, how long it may take? I am asking these questions as I am really scared and try to keep hope that I will be OK. I know it is not a medically relevant factor but my spouse is very angry with me for what I did to myself with the temper which additionally stresses me out. Dear @[...]nsindy you mentioned below:

Does it mean you reinstated? How long did it take before you stabilized?

Best!

I have never stabilized. Mine is quite a different situation. 

I'm almost finished tapering and still very much symptomatic and getting worse everyday. 

I am paradoxical and it will take time for me to adjust once the drug leaves my symptom for my brain to heal. 

If you didn't have depression prior to this, benzo withdrawal is probably the reason and usually you will feel better. It's your decision to make, ssri is very difficult to taper as well.

Some benefit, some don't. 

I wish the best for you 

Take care 

Ns

[[zo...]]

Dear @nsindy, I am very sorry that you are suffering so much. I wish that one day you will finally defeat this benzo beast and will fully recover.  Thank you very much for your further thoughts.... Looks like a very difficult decision is a head of me to take... Hope that my doctor will be able to say something more tomorrow, perhaps she will have some new idea, although for sure she knows nothing about benzo tapering...

Take care!

[[El...]]

I am sorry you are continuing to feel unwell. Unfortunately, for most of us, it often seems to take some time to stabilize either from a reduction or from an updose.

Because I am so very impatient, I foolishly tapered much too rapidly from late April until early August 2023. My symptoms finally became so intolerable, I decided to hold on August 8. And I held until September 19. At that point, I felt like I could proceed with my taper. I still schedule regular holds…usually holding a few days, but sometimes a week. However, I do think we need to keep in mind that it is probable we are never going to feel “great” during this process. I think I am fortunate to feel tolerable enough to function…that is, I can cook meals, do household tasks, do errands, moderately exercise, and sleep OK at least 4-5 days out of 7. I don’t think I do these things with a great deal of “sparkle”, but I can do them.

Wishing you well!