Help with tapering please, panic/severe insomnia

[[Al...]]

Hi I'm new to the group, 42 years old. No previous med use. My doctor prescribed me Xanax on February 20th of this year after trying Ambien for a week for sleep issues and it not working well. I was taking one mg of Xanax for two and a half weeks. I learned more about Xanax and wanted to start tapering off when I cut down to .25 mg (maybe just over a week of time) I had 3 days of insomnia and panic. And then switched to valium 5 mg and did well for a week and began tapering that. I went down a quarter of a Valium every 4-5 days. Towards the end of the taper when I got to 1/2-1/4 valuim I developed 6 days of insomnia, intense panic, and tremors. I had two panic attacks in one night (like I've never experienced, screaming and convulsing) and had to take a whole 5 mg valuim again (actually the panic episodes started after I took the 5 mg valuim, I took it because the panic was starting to feel uncontrollable. Took the whole valuim at 9:30 p.m. and went into full panic around midnight) The last two nights I've been trying to go back to 1/4 but I'm having extreme anxiety, trembling, and insomnia.  Please help, I'm so scared and having really dark thoughts. This panic is unbearable 

[[Ka...]]

Hello @[Al...] & welcome. 
sorry you are having problems but glad you are here. 
Firstly, not sure if you’ve seen this but here is an excellent taper link 

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/benzodiazepine-tapering-strategies/

Slow & steady is recommended.
I wonder if the 1/4 dose every 4/5 days has lead to symptoms you experience now.

It may be best to find a baseline to start from say 5mg when you last felt ok. Then consistency rather than erratic dosing will likely be a better way forward from which to taper. No expert & sure others will help you. 

 

 

[[Al...]]

@[Ka...]hi thanks for your reply.

I'm wondering what is normal withdrawal and what isn't. Maybe people here could give me their feedback/opinions. I'd hate to go backwards but I may need to. Since I went back to the 5 mg the other night, has that screwed everything up with the tapering? Other than that dose I'd be on 4 days of 1/4 pill of 5 mg valium. Is this insomnia and terrible anxiety just to be expected 😭 part of me is wondering if I should stay at this dose now for a longer period rather than going back up, but I truly don't know. I'm terrified the panic will get as severe as it was again. My husband took me to the ER at 2 a.m. after the panic episodes that were horrendous (all they offered me was another benzo, which I declined)

[[kn...]]

I’m also tapering diazepam. (Valium). I started with a 60mg cross over from an an equivalent amount of klonopin and Ativan. I chopped pills and hustled my way down to 5mgs. Practically killed myself on the way. When I hit 5 I hit the wall. Nevertheless, I kept pushing my way down to 2. After holding for 5 months, and never stabilizing, I gave up and reinstated to 4. I’ve since purchased a scale and am now micro tapering down by 5% at a time. Yes, at less than 5, slowing down works best. Be well and be careful. It sounds like you’re hurting pretty badly right now. 

[[Br...]]

@[Al...] - I'm so sorry you're suffering like this.  In my opinion it makes sense to return to a higher dose where you feel more stable. It's understandable that the idea of updosing feels like a backward step. But you haven't screwed things up by going back to 5mg.  Instead I think of it as a kindness to your central nervous system and a good strategic move to set you up for a taper during which you'll suffer less and be more functional.

Again the symptoms you're experiencing are normal during withdrawal and are often especially intense during the first phase of withdrawal.  They're miserable but they are temporary.  It's your choice how to proceed.  You will not hurt your chance of healing either way.  But starting your taper from a place of stability and proceeding more slowly may make for a more manageable taper with less intense symptoms. 

[[Re...]]

11 hours ago, [[A...] said:

Hi I'm new to the group, 42 years old. No previous med use. My doctor prescribed me Xanax on February 20th of this year after trying Ambien for a week for sleep issues and it not working well. I was taking one mg of Xanax for two and a half weeks. I learned more about Xanax and wanted to start tapering off when I cut down to .25 mg (maybe just over a week of time) I had 3 days of insomnia and panic. And then switched to valium 5 mg and did well for a week and began tapering that. I went down a quarter of a Valium every 4-5 days. Towards the end of the taper when I got to 1/2-1/4 valuim I developed 6 days of insomnia, intense panic, and tremors. I had two panic attacks in one night (like I've never experienced, screaming and convulsing) and had to take a whole 5 mg valuim again (actually the panic episodes started after I took the 5 mg valuim, I took it because the panic was starting to feel uncontrollable. Took the whole valuim at 9:30 p.m. and went into full panic around midnight) The last two nights I've been trying to go back to 1/4 but I'm having extreme anxiety, trembling, and insomnia.  Please help, I'm so scared and having really dark thoughts. This panic is unbearable 

@[Al...] I understand the fear. It is scary to experience the symptoms of benzo withdrawal. What you describe is very common. It sounds like you are doing a really quick taper but these symptoms can happen with a slower taper too. You were on for a short period but that doesn't always predict withdrawal experience. It's just the nature of benzos and what they do to the body. The switch to Valium may have complicated matters as well. Any new drug a person introduces while tapering can complicate their withdrawal. (What doctors don't tell you and usually don't even know...)  Ice packs on your chest and cold showers might help with the symptoms. Cold is calming for the nervous system. Some people hold their taper while symptoms even out. But this does not necessarily work for everyone. Glad that you are here. We will all support you.

Edited April 7 by [Re...]

[Guest [Do...]]

On 06/04/2024 at 17:47, [[A...] said:

Hi I'm new to the group, 42 years old. No previous med use. My doctor prescribed me Xanax on February 20th of this year after trying Ambien for a week for sleep issues and it not working well. I was taking one mg of Xanax for two and a half weeks. I learned more about Xanax and wanted to start tapering off when I cut down to .25 mg (maybe just over a week of time) I had 3 days of insomnia and panic. And then switched to valium 5 mg and did well for a week and began tapering that. I went down a quarter of a Valium every 4-5 days. Towards the end of the taper when I got to 1/2-1/4 valuim I developed 6 days of insomnia, intense panic, and tremors. I had two panic attacks in one night (like I've never experienced, screaming and convulsing) and had to take a whole 5 mg valuim again (actually the panic episodes started after I took the 5 mg valuim, I took it because the panic was starting to feel uncontrollable. Took the whole valuim at 9:30 p.m. and went into full panic around midnight) The last two nights I've been trying to go back to 1/4 but I'm having extreme anxiety, trembling, and insomnia.  Please help, I'm so scared and having really dark thoughts. This panic is unbearable 

Hi,

I was only 3 months on lorazepam and already got a big physical dependence.  I tried to taper fast to escape but it only brought me severe withdrawal symptoms, then switched to diazepam and made the same mistake trying to cut to fast wich Led me to get very sick.

I finally had to updose to my last stable dose and holded the to stabilize 2 weeks and the changed to micro taper, very slow and the symptoms are mild so far.

I think you tried to taper way to fast and fell into hell. My advice is to get back to a dose where you feel better, stabilize for some time and then make a slower plan.

For all of us the first reaction is always to try to run from this hell but if the drug has already got you, there is no easy or fast way out. Stay calm, accept and listen to the ones who have already make it out.

I wish you the best.

Ps. When you stabilize you should work deeply in anxiety and panic, i did that and now it isnt as bad even on really bad days.

[[Al...]]

@[Ka...]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I have taken some of your advice and went back to the 5 mg diazepam, where I feel more stable.

My husband and I were contemplating doing a 2% reduction a day taper after awhile. Has anybody tried something similar? Does that seem too fast?....our thoughts were it would be more gradual than doing larger reductions at a time. Also we heard gabapentin can help withdrawal symptoms and were wondering about using that when symptoms get bad. Any thoughts an that?

Thanks for your help, this is like a nightmare, as you all well know. I feel like I'm just not strong enough to get through this

 

Edited April 7 by [Al...]

[[Ka...]]

@[Al...] that is really good to know you feel stable now on 5mg diazepam. Consensus is to stabilise for a while before starting to taper. 

I’ve only experience of cut and hold so if you are considering something like a daily taper then I believe a reduction of 2% daily would still be quite a large reduction. If a micro taper then am sure others who’ve experience can assist. 
I’ve not used adjunct medication such as gabapentin but again sure those experienced with this will relay likely benefit. I think it’s worth bearing in mind anything added will eventually need to be tapered too. 
We are a nice bunch who understand what you are going through! As long as you go slow & steady you’ll allow your system to adapt to incremental reductions that will hopefully be straightforward. 

[[Br...]]

3 hours ago, [[A...] said:

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I have taken some of your advice and went back to the 5 mg diazepam, where I feel more stable.

My husband and I were contemplating doing a 2% reduction a day taper after awhile. Has anybody tried something similar? Does that seem too fast?....our thoughts were it would be more gradual than doing larger reductions at a time. Also we heard gabapentin can help withdrawal symptoms and were wondering about using that when symptoms get bad. Any thoughts an that?

Thanks for your help, this is like a nightmare, as you all well know. I feel like I'm just not strong enough to get through this

Hi @[Al...] - I think this is way too fast.  As a general guideline we typically suggest tapering with cuts of no more than 5-10% every two weeks or long depending on symptoms.  If you were to reduce by 2% each day, you would reach a 10% reduction within 5 days!  But I understand your thinking and there is an alternative model that might appeal to you and that is daily micro tapering but you would make much smaller cuts.  This can be done with dry cutting pills but it is probably much easier to do it using liquid.  The link @[Ka...] gave you talks about this: https://www.benzoinfo.com/benzodiazepine-tapering-strategies/

I hope you won't rush into beginning your taper.  Your system has been through a lot.  I think it would be good to give it at least a few weeks to settle down on your current does of Valium 5mg.  I believe this will help give you a good foundation on which to start your taper.