Cross tapering to Diazepam troubles

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I hit tolerance on my nightly Ativan 3mg. Dr wants me on 10mg Diazepam am and 20mg PM.

I began a 5mg Diazepam crossover 10 days ago by replacing 0.5mg Ativan. Tried 10mg too for two days but it was bad so backtracked to 5mg.

The next day sedation is too uncomfortable. This is making me anxious.

Hoe have others managed the crossover?  Need advise.

[[da...]]

I had sedation too the first time I tried 2.5mg Diazepam. Currently, I am at 1.6mg Diazepam and don't feel much sedated. Maybe, you can start with a low dose of Diazepam and then gradually increase it?

[[kn...]]

My crossover started at 60mg Diazepam. Originally 4 mg of Klonopin & 1mg Ativan. I had no problems at first, but all the usual symptoms of benzodiazepine WD soon arrived.  When I hit about ten, things became very tough. I had to up dose when I hit 2mg-back to 4. My legs have since given out and yes, the fatigue is wicked. Now, I’m weighing and microdosing as I go. First cut was 5% for a month. Then I’ll decide whether to cut another 5% or even 10. I learned my lesson the first time around. 

[[Br...]]

@[...] - you might find some helpful threads on crossover/substitution of diazepam (Valium)  for lorazepam (Ativan) Here

[[ns...]]

[[ns...]]

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My doctor knows nothing.  I have seen a couple of others but they were worse.

I have a call with Mark horowitz on the 30th. What should I do until then? Should i go back to all Ativan? I guess the diazepam I took won't leave my body foe several days. It had eased my constant lightheaded,  muscle twitching, double vision to a great extent. But lying around with this 5mg sedation,  not even asleep is torturing me. And the new morning anxiety that lasts an hour. I don't have a moments peace anymore.

[[Ka...]]

[[or...]]

14 hours ago, [[k...] said:

My crossover started at 60mg Diazepam. Originally 4 mg of Klonopin & 1mg Ativan. I had no problems at first, but all the usual symptoms of benzodiazepine WD soon arrived.  When I hit about ten, things became very tough. I had to up dose when I hit 2mg-back to 4. My legs have since given out and yes, the fatigue is wicked. Now, I’m weighing and microdosing as I go. First cut was 5% for a month. Then I’ll decide whether to cut another 5% or even 10. I learned my lesson the first time around. 

If the 5% works and you are stable on it, I wouldn't go higher until I do at least one more hold on the 5%.  I've gotten over anxious in the past and we do need to learn from our experiences no matter how tempting it is to move faster with our tapers. 

For me it's just not worth it to lose quality of life, and comparing the ridiculously long years of taking the Clonazepam, 2 years is no time at all to take for my taper.  I say it because I need to remember that, oregonlady/Denise

[[or...]]

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17 hours ago, [[B...] said:

@[...] - you might find some helpful threads on crossover/substitution of diazepam (Valium)  for lorazepam (Ativan) Here

Thanks. Been through 3 pages of the posts. Nothing yet resonates with my situation

[[...]]

My thoughts are all over the place today.

Trying to understand what I'm doing:

Idea is to taper off the 3mg ativan since I hit tolerance.

As per psychiatrist advise, goal is to reach 10mg Diazepam am and 20mg Diazepam pm. This is to make the taper easier because of the longer acting Diazepam.

Currently,  I'm taking all this at once. 2.5mg Ativan and 5mg diazepam. 9:30pm every night. I fall asleep around 1pm.

Am up at 9am with some new anxiety this last one week.

The uncomfortable sedation lasts till about 5pm.

This is the road block getting onto the long lasting benzo.

Also, I had gone for a genetic testing which the doctor completely ignored. The report only had two medications in this category. Diazepam and Clobozepam (I think). Both showed up on the Caution list.

Besides this, i have grade 2 fatty liver. It was grade 2/3 earlier, but I made some dietary changes and lost some weight to help this situation. Mentioning this since the doctor wanted a liver function test and it came out normal.

Pls help me form a better plan. My doctor won't be of much help. I can go to him with ideas and get a prescription. 

Relying on my consultation call with Mark Horowitz at the fag end of this month. 

@[Pa...] @[Li...]

 

Pls advise.

 

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Tolerance symptoms LIhtheadedness and that quickly kept me home bound from october till date. Besides that, muscle twitching,  involuntary movement in two fingers, numbness in hands and feet, double vision at times, eye and head pain on the right side, myoclonic jerks at night, night sweats, dp dr, brain fog couple of times and one paradoxical reaction after i took ativan one night. Somehow, a few resolved in time. Since I started the diazepam, more symptoms have been under control depending on the 5 or 10mg dose. The lightheadedness and double vision, numb hands still persist. 

[[ns...]]

Hi nlav, 

If it were me, I would immediately start reducing the lorazapam. You'll need a taper plan for this. you only take it one time per day, in the evening so start reducing it tonight. I would reduce the v to 2.5 with that dose. You are over sedated so this should help with that.

It will be up to u how much you taper the Ativan. 5 to 10% per cut, every 5 to 10 days for example, but this depends on you getting to a point of stability from each cut. Sometimes it takes awhile to get stable so it will depend on that.

Your going to be adjusting the v as you go I'm sure in order to see how you do with it. 

If your unable to take the v, you may have to switch to something like klonopin. Hopefully you'll eventually get to a level place with v but it could be an option.

It sounds like your very sensitive to the v to me, I am as well.

I just decided to taper the Lorazepam without a crossover, I'm unable to tolerate most drugs. It's difficult but I'm finding it best to just be done with it completely. 

Would you consider this?

Stopping the v and tapering the Ativan?

I think either decision is going to be a little difficult but at least the latter is a goal to be completely clean from all benzos. Maybe that's an option for you, maybe not.

Either way I'm here to support you nlav, it sounds like you are having a very difficult time. I'll keep you in my prayers!let us know what you decide and if we can help you ok

Try to remember  you are stronger than you know and you will get thru this, it's going to be a challenge but you strike me as someone who doesn't give up easily!

Take care ok, 

Ns

 

 

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Around minute 4, has anyone tapered part diazepam and part another benzo? Thoughts? Pls watch this.

 

[[Ka...]]

@[...] just watched. As you will know I’m not experienced in cross over taper. 
The theory is easy to understand, the practical issues are variable with how one responds & what side effects emerge. 

It’s interesting that @[Hu...] posted re gene test on your other thread. 
Hoping others with direct personal experience of such a cross over will contribute thoughts. 

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Hi Katrina,  yes @[Hu...] 's comment aligned with what was written in my gene report.

Thanks for your continued support to my conundrum.

If anyone has experience with what's outlined in Dr Yosefs video, pls share your thoughts. 

I seem to be going nowhere.  (The sedation seems to be a bit less today, but I will have to watch)

Another question is if I can and should split my daily dosage without compromising on sleep much. 

[Guest [Do...]]

[[...]]

I feel like I'm going to pass out.

Pls help

[[Ka...]]

I’ll try @[...] 

is this the lightheadedness you had just on ativan?

How was your sleep last night?

How is the sedation today?

can you persevere with the crossover? 

sorry so many questions. Just trying to figure it out. 
I would urge you to seek medical help if you need it. 
 

 

 

[[da...]]

@nlav, what are you on currently?

[[...]]

@[Ka...], @[da...]

It was more like an im-anxious-i-cant-take-this-anymore kind of feeling that drained me out.

i slept for 5 hours last night, woke up panicky about some issue, paced around in distress since i didn't sleep enough and then fell asleep from 930am to 12pm.  That was a relief.

The sedation seemed better because I slept through some of it until noon.

My husband thinks I should wait un till next week and crossover to another 2.5mg D.

I'm on 2.5mg Ativan and 5mg D dangerous007.

I went and saw my psychiatrist today. He said he would like to see me adjust to the D even if it takes more time. He suggested an anti depressant because of the new anxiety and SI I'm feeling but I refused. Afraid of more psychiatric drugs. He said i could do a 1 week medical detox that I refused. I told him he could attend the Dr. Mark H call later this month with me but he refused. He had other Maudsley books on his table.  Essentially,  we both stuck to our guns.

I stepped out feeling hopeless and unsupported.

I was having physical symptoms so far and am afraid that the mental tolerance withdrawals are beginning. Do I consider the anti depressant? Will it help or turn into another fiasco?

[[ns...]]

[Guest [Do...]]

[[Ka...]]

Edited April 6 by [Ka...]
Added ps