Do holds(Diazepam) help our brain regulate to the previous cuts or could it be that it builds up in our system again

[[re...]]

I am wondering if it is just brain adaptations taking place during holds or possibly with valium that it is building up in dose again because of the long half life and maybe why holds help as well as more is getting in your system again. 

Edited March 17 by [re...]
spelling error

[[Ka...]]

Hello @[re...] my theory is that holding gives a chance for our system to neither have to react & adjust to a reduction so therefore it’s a sort of breathing space before any further change is made. 

I hope wherever you are with valium it is going in the right direction. & wish you well. 

[[re...]]

Thank you for reaching out Katrina appreciate you.

This is my second rodeo with these  drugs and so different this time around. I am quite low at 1.3 Diazepam and whoa I think my recent stretch of  my micro taper is catching up to me. I haven't done a hold in a bit and think I may, but I am worried about it building up too much in my system. I feel somewhat fluish(mild temp 99-100ish)  and symptomatic for a good chunk of the day then at night everything calms down, temp is good, everything, and feel somewhat healthy. It is like at this small dose it is wearing off quite quick. Like i take it about somewhere between 4-7 am. depending on how good i sleep  and usually after I sleep in my phases of 2 hours here then 2 hours there.  I wake up from taking it I have such ear ringing, heart beating, etc. And many times as soon as I take it like til 30-60 minutes after I start twitching and tinnitus starts then it calms down and I seem to crash out. It so odd.  It kind of feels like alcohol at this point, but with a stronger hungover feeling. 

[[re...]]

This Diazepam is such a different beast from when I was on and tapered the K years ago. It has so much more of a malaise run down feeling for me with more gut issues and flu symptoms like headache, sore throat, dry eye stuff like you are on the edge of a cold that never goes to full sickness. 

[[Ka...]]

Sorry you have these symptoms. I really sympathise. These meds are so weird & impact us in many different ways.
 

I wouldn’t personally think holding will induce any build up but may provide you with a stabilisation phase.  I held at 2mg for years! Got well and truly stuck. No expert just thoughts & the low dose seems is the tricky bit. 

[[re...]]

Yeah I came from taking 5 mg for a couple months of only then started tapering and here I am. I have been mostly functional although not symptom free of course. But WOW you are so right. This low dose has really been a challenge and very tricky like you say. 

[[Ka...]]

Well hopefully this is the worst of it. Certainly hope so. Check in with Dr if you feel you need to. 

[[re...]]

I held all throughout maybe 7-10 days along with liquid micro taper cuts of .02/day and was doing pretty good. Then at the big milestones of 2.5 and 2.0 mg I did a 3 week and 2 week hold respectively and really did well until I have gotten down to this 1.3 mg. which I went a bit faster with from 2 mg down cause I thought it would get easier.  Time to hold I guess. 

[[re...]]

Sad thing is doctors really can't do crap with this.  But thanks for the advice. I feel this healing thing......... It really is on all of us. And hopefully we all heal which i would like to believe we are designed to do.  without any interference from more synthetics that is what doctors have been told to do for this affliction we all have. 

[[He...]]

I think you are right revolutionblue .I feel same as you and i think the maybe brain stores benzo in  the liver so it will make sure the body get the doze it needs when taper.I am stuck at about 1,8mg and have been holding for about 2 months and can not get well. And i do not dare to taper more now because then i can risk not function at all.

[[re...]]

Yeah Helpless I think it is at least a POSSIBILITY that since it is a longer acting drug (Diaz) that the hold keeps a bit more in the system as it builds and builds then boom a stabilization. 

 

Have you gone fast to get down to your 1.8 mg? Are you doing a micro taper or C/H? What was your initial dose and how long have you been tapering? Insidious little pills aren't they? 

[[re...]]

I also worry that holding too long (at least for me) at this low dose will create a more toxic reaction in my body. I am in this weird spot where i feel my body is rejecting it, but know my brain needs the slow and steady down the stairs. 

[[He...]]

I was first on 5mg about 8 months then down to 2,5mg i did not have a bad reaction to that but had tremblings and woke up at night soaked and chestpain and breathing trouble .I wat on the 2,5mg diazepam for 4 months and was okay  Then i did the silly thing to just stop taking the pill because i did feel okay and did not think i neded to take valuim anymore. Then after 4 days hell broke lose and i had several panicattacks breathing problems crying pain all over and more fun stuff. I did at that point not know that benzo need to be tapered.I called the doc and reinstated 2,5mg and it took about 2 months to feel okay again.Since then i tapered very slowly using a microscale and grinding off on a sandpaper 0.002 gram .Im now at 0.064gram and think that is about 1,8mg not sure anymore because i discovered yesterday that i may have done the math wrong.  1 half of the 2,5 mg is about 0.088 gram on my scale and not i take 0.064gram.

[[He...]]

sorry for bad typing . I can not take naps because then i wake up with heavy depressing feeling in my soul and anxiety and feeling very bad.Then after about 30 minutes i feel better

[[He...]]

Sorry i wrote wrong i meant 1 half of a 5mg pill weigh 0.088gram on my scale

[[re...]]

YUP that is the thing about these drugs. You felt good so you just stop. Or like me I feel a somewhat paradoxical feeling where it also makes me want to stop at this 1.3 mg dose. Like this morning I felt so so good until I took the pill. Then I felt awful for a bit. Or when I wake up after taking it I feel way worse now. But that part of me that says "it could get worse" if I jumped at this dose. It really plays games with us so badly and every scary side effect that you hear drug commercials on television say. We get those in benzo withdrawal. It is so awful. You really have to talk yourself down and  it does pass. 

[[He...]]

That is exactly how i feel now i have split the 1.8mg doze taking one at midday and one at evening.before i take the mid day doze i often feel fine or okay then after i take the doze about 1 hour after i can feel more wd symtoms and often get very drowsy so i have to take a nap and then wake up feeling bad.i sleep okay in night and not feel bad in mornings anymore.

[[He...]]

Im housebound by the way and not often go out .I have windows sometimes then i can get out in shops and for walks in nature

[[re...]]

Yeah Helpless that is how I feel. I get kinda twitchy and tinnitus right after I take the crap for about an hour then I crash out for some reason. I try to wait as long as I can because I prefer to get normal sleep and usually when I do I feel so much better. But then I take that crap and when I wake up I feel so awful like a bad hangover. 

I feel so shitty you are bed bound. I am tearing up as you tell me this. I am so sensitive today and so sorry we all gotta go thru this. Our afflictions really bother me.  It pains me so much. I so PRAY I won't become bedbound it truly is my biggest fear to become paralyzed and/or bedbound in all this. So far I keep forcing myself on my bike and walks/hikes in the woods. Yesterday was so bad I got home from the bike and was so exhausted and having yawning attacks, but laying down in a recliner outside on the porch just jerking and heart beating weird and feeling awful and couldn't doze off at all. 

[[re...]]

Try no matter how hard to at least get some movement in daily or even stretching a bit. Don't let the drugs win. Not to tell you what to do. Just try whatever you can do. It will help you so much. Don't let that benzo brain take over. It is so hard I know. My body feels like lead so many days and I have this constant flu feeling all day until the drugs wear off at night it seems. 

[[kn...]]

I started my taper from Klonopin and Ativan over 2 and a half years ago with a cross over to 60 mgs of diazepam and started down from there.  Last August ('23) I cut from 2.5 down to 2 with the intention of holding until I stabilized.  It was bad for a few months and then got worse.  In early Feb of this year, I took advice gleaned on site to up dose.  I finally wound up at 4 and am holding until my next appt. at the end of March.  My symptoms parallel yours to a 'T'.  I've been told that these patterns are due to the daily levels of Corisol in the blood stream.  It seems to go with the territory.  Diazepam is known for the side effects of chronic fatigue.  I'm able to sleep pretty well at night (6 hrs. or so), but I find myself needing to return to bed at least twice a day.  I'm never able to sleep, but warm up and meditate for a half hour or so. Best wishes along the way.     

[[He...]]

Revolutionblue: im not bed bound thank god ! im house bound like i can not go out because of the wd.I have windows when i  manage to go out .I also try to keep in shape but after the benzo fun started i can not work out much because get very sore in tendons and muscles. I did  about a week ago some legpesses  standing with dumbells in hands and im still sore after just that !!! =) .I also have often like flu symtoms runny nose on the beginning of days that clears out in the evening.

I wish you heal fast

[[re...]]

Knackered: WOW 60mg is soooooo much to me. That is an amazing accomplishment getting down that much. I really don't know how in the heck you did it. That is an extreme amount of discipline and patience. Did you have many windows until you got down to the 2 mg and struggled? Did you have ANY windows at that 2mg dose. This is all so stressful for us it's no wonder so many end up alone or worse. How is the 4mg going and when do you think you will start tapering from this up dose amount?

Yeah the symptoms are that malaise feeling and sickly flu like until evening comes around and then I seem to be better. I have never felt this low level of sickness in my life. Started to happen more often I would say under 2 mg and now at 1.3mg oh gross I dread taking it due to a temporary flare up in symptoms. It has become like this alcohol sickness hungover feeling for lots of the time. I can't stand it. 

 

Helpless:

Oh!! Gotcha. Sorry for that. Regardless housebound sucks too and the thing is people don't realize how  our bodies and brains have turned on us. I am so glad you got to go to the gym and at least attempt the leg stuff.  GOOD JOB

Yeah I get the sinus stuff big time. Sometimes runny nose and other times this sore throat feeling, but yet not sick sick. Just this major run down feeling that clears by evening many times. Not everytime, but a decent amount I feel better come evening. 

[[ns...]]

4 hours ago, [[r...] said:

I also worry that holding too long (at least for me) at this low dose will create a more toxic reaction in my body. I am in this weird spot where i feel my body is rejecting it, but know my brain needs the slow and steady down the stairs. 

Revolutionblue, I have been tapering since August. I'm down to .08 of lorazepam now. This last 1/2mg has been so difficult. I've been tapering a drug I had a reaction to for close to 8 months. Every dose has been torture and for the past 2 weeks it's almost put me in bed but I didn't give in.

I took my dose this morning and felt so bad! Went to er a few hrs later for my back and started feeling better after about 4 hrs since that dose. I've noticed this before. Then at 5pm, I took my next little dose and I thought I was going to come apart!

It seems it's time for me to stop taking it! I was feeling so great before I took it and then, right back to the same misery I had earlier. My husband and I have both noticed a pattern of this and feel the drug, even at such a tiny amount, is causing me such an adverse reaction, we feel it's time for me to stop!

You mentioned a toxic reaction or like your body is rejecting  the drug. I wonder if maybe it is?

It's not impossible for you to have an adverse reaction to it, it could be that your body is finished with the drug, but idk how it works.

I hope you find even ground and can finish your taper without going through any unnecessary complications. 

I know it's time for me to be done. I think we'll all know when the time is right for each of us.

Good luck to you 

Just my 2 cents worth

Ns

[[re...]]

Yes Nsindy it is exactly how I feel. Just like you.  Like my body doesn't want it anymore and is kind of rejecting it, but I think my brain would go so haywire just giving up, but I do wonder. I felt so good this morning after decent  broken  real vivid dream sleep and then took it and started twitching with the tinnitus. The tinnitus always is super loud then the twitching starts then the empty chest feeling and weird heart stuff. These pills are so awful. 

I cannot believe you are tapering the Ativan. That takes great strength to me.   That is such a super potent benzo and it has always given me the most panic attacks once it wears off. But it doesn't seem to have all the muscle or histamine issues I am having with this damn Diazepam. I think they are all bad and do different things and grab different receptors in the brain but they are still very toxic long term and for many even short term.