Just realising how much I deluded myself 🤦‍♀️

[[Ta...]]

9 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Oh @[Pa...] . That was very short actually . I am 14 months now , but far from recovery . I dont expect to recover either at my age . But just to be better is good. So i hope for that .

@[ma...]

@[Pa...] may correct me on this, but I think her recovery (although there were slight improvements over time) pretty much happened overnight.… as though the brain had suddenly found its correct gear and locked itself in. 

[[Pa...]]

11 hours ago, [[m...] said:

I had addicted manner too and had almost ct . Can  i ask how far out you are @[Pa...] ? Its a comfort to hear others with no or little taper . And it sounds you are doing ok ?

I have 33 years sobriety from alcohol and 16 from benzo's and z-drugs, life is good. 

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[T...] said:

@[ma...]

@[Pa...] may correct me on this, but I think her recovery (although there were slight improvements over time) pretty much happened overnight.… as though the brain had suddenly found its correct gear and locked itself in. 

You're correct @[Ta...], it was overnight but that was because I was taking Ambien while attempting to recover from my Klonopin cold turkey.  Once I stopped that, I recovered within days.  Using Ambien which hits GABA receptors similarly to alcohol kept me sick, once I removed the Ambien, I recovered.

This is why I believe you can't recover if you're still ingesting alcohol or other GABA affecting substances, at least, that's the way it was for me.

[[ve...]]

8 hours ago, [[B...] said:

I’m certainly not reliant on alcohol, more addicted and I love the buzz 🐝 and the sedating effects, but I can go without for sure . But just at times I NEED it , others I just like it . And others I just need it to cope with the chaos life brings , and I can cope with chaos without it , and the Benzo’s too!! 

I didn't became an alcoholic overnight.  It's a process.

The mix of benzos and alcohol makes matters worse.

[[Bl...]]

10 hours ago, [[P...] said:

You're correct @[Ta...], it was overnight but that was because I was taking Ambien while attempting to recover from my Klonopin cold turkey.  Once I stopped that, I recovered within days.  Using Ambien which hits GABA receptors similarly to alcohol kept me sick, once I removed the Ambien, I recovered.

This is why I believe you can't recover if you're still ingesting alcohol or other GABA affecting substances, at least, that's the way it was for me.

If you are not alcohol dependent don’t you think once you are clean of the Benzo’s you can have a drink of alcohol once a week ? Or a glass of wine with a nice meal ? 
or do you think it would take you back to ground zero so to speak . 
I’m now thinking Pam to go CT virtually on both , but slightly wean … leave the benzo until my head really hurts , I got to day four without it and had to get up in the night and I took a 5mg . 
I went out last night and for the first time for over a decade I drank a few glasses of wine (with water in between) and DID’NT take a benzo to get high …. Which made me drink so much less , I had a great night AND the most important and great thing for me .. and new … is I can remember it all 💃

So I’m thinking 🤔 I’m going to taper but taper off both at the same time but in the way I was abusing them both . I will never take a benzo again with alcohol , ever , and I will never drink to excess on nights out , or in , I will only take the benzo when I’m really feeling it during the wean but at a lower dose each time . 
I am determined to be free of Benzo’s and get back to enjoying alcohol once a week and being able to go a month without if I choose . 
I’ll swim everyday and I walk 10 miles a day anyway , but I’ll set my self sone mountain to climb again as I loved that. And my wean will be taking it a day at a time but always at reducing.

Going on a daily dose to taper down I feel would be counterproductive for me  But , who knows 🤷🏻‍♀️ I may be telling a very different story in a couple of months . 

[[Pa...]]

On 10/03/2024 at 06:59, [[B...] said:

If you are not alcohol dependent don’t you think once you are clean of the Benzo’s you can have a drink of alcohol once a week ? Or a glass of wine with a nice meal ? 

I've known members who have been able to have wine while tapering, and many who are able to enjoy moderate amounts of alcohol once recovered.  

Your approach to your situation is unique but so are we all so, I hope you'll keep us apprised of your progress. 

[[Bl...]]

8 hours ago, [[P...] said:

I've known members who have been about to have wine while tapering, and many who are able to enjoy moderate amounts of alcohol once recovered.  

Your approach to your situation is unique but so are we all so, I hope you'll keep us apprised of your progress. 

Hello Pam 

Well I’m on day four now of CT and I’m getting a bit worried , apart from a pretty bad headache that waxes and wanes , mainly on a night , nothing ! 
Can acute withdrawal kick in on a later day after your last dose ? 
I’ve also not drunk any alcohol in those three days . But alcohol really is not a problem to me . 
I had a few little victories in these last few days when I realised the pattern of use I’d got into … apart from the obvious abuse of the Benzo which I hold my hands up to… but I’m having a hard time with my daughter atm and a lot of emotions are running and high . 
I had an interaction with her yesterday that was not very nice and I know I’d have run for one , but I got the dogs on the leads and even though it was nearly midnight I went for a walk and let it go . I coped , which i have always been pretty good at , but I found that easy route through the Benzo’s prescribed . 
So, it’s early days and I’m not saying I won’t slip but I’m learning every hour. And I actually feel clearer of mind already .

Can I ask , have I got the worst to come as I’m not even in acute withdrawal yet on day four ? 
Because I have through ignorance stopped them CT before and not had much of any withdrawal can that happen ? 
Do some people not get acute withdrawal? 
Or because I’ve taken them on and off for over a decade at varying amounts and stopped CT before my body tolerates it ? 
Or have I never become dependent on them ? Just addicted ? 

I’m taking it a day at a time and ignoring I’ve ever been on them , I think for now it’s my best way . 
Time will tell . 
 

Thanks to you and everyone for your help . 

[[Pa...]]

I've heard members who take Valium mention beginning to feel symptoms around day 7, I'm not sure where your metabolism would put you in terms of when to expect symptoms.  Some can take these medications for years and stop without issue, some can start and stop them until they can't, we never know who will be affected or when, I do believe in the theory of kindling but don't know if it will apply to your situation.

[[Bl...]]

2 hours ago, [[P...] said:

I've heard members who take Valium mention beginning to feel symptoms around day 7, I'm not sure where your metabolism would put you in terms of when to expect symptoms.  Some can take these medications for years and stop without issue, some can start and stop them until they can't, we never know who will be affected or when, I do believe in the theory of kindling but don't know if it will apply to your situation.

Well … I had to take a 5mg this afternoon, the headache came on with a vengeance but with zapping feelings and neck pain. At least the 5mg took that off somewhat , but the feeling of tired grogginess now is there . 
So … where do I go from here . 
Try and taper from the every few days use with a smaller dose which was my pattern for around five years , or go up to daily use to taper 🤷🏻‍♀️

The 5mg , will it cause kindling and I’ll get stuck here🤷🏻‍♀️

And will I make it to day 7 and really crash🤷🏻‍♀️

Would you go on and try an eek things out for as long as I can .. more days to then take the least dose I can to relieve the symptoms, or is this a recipe for disaster? 
Obviously I know this is all opinion and it’s my trial and error .
Again I’d like to not go up regularly to go back down , but , because of the length of year upon year of my use culminating in dependency in the last two for sure , will I need to . 
 

Maybe yesterdays and todays very stressful days just caught up . 
Life eh … whenever is it the right time 🤷🏻‍♀️ because there are always setbacks that are so genuinely hard to cope with even on these bloody tablets . 
Feeling down after a few very good days . 
Tomorrow is another day I suppose. 
X

[[...]]

2 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Well … I had to take a 5mg this afternoon, the headache came on with a vengeance but with zapping feelings and neck pain. At least the 5mg took that off somewhat , but the feeling of tired grogginess now is there . 
So … where do I go from here . 
Try and taper from the every few days use with a smaller dose which was my pattern for around five years , or go up to daily use to taper 🤷🏻‍♀️

The 5mg , will it cause kindling and I’ll get stuck here🤷🏻‍♀️

And will I make it to day 7 and really crash🤷🏻‍♀️

Would you go on and try an eek things out for as long as I can .. more days to then take the least dose I can to relieve the symptoms, or is this a recipe for disaster? 
Obviously I know this is all opinion and it’s my trial and error .
Again I’d like to not go up regularly to go back down , but , because of the length of year upon year of my use culminating in dependency in the last two for sure , will I need to . 
 

Maybe yesterdays and todays very stressful days just caught up . 
Life eh … whenever is it the right time 🤷🏻‍♀️ because there are always setbacks that are so genuinely hard to cope with even on these bloody tablets . 
Feeling down after a few very good days . 
Tomorrow is another day I suppose. 
X

Feel for you very much and hope you'll do without too severe wd issues!

And yet, I think you'd better prepare yourself for some uneasiness and other wd "wonders". It doesn't mean they will necessarily strike but that was the thing which helped me personally. At least i wasn't afraid when something unpleasant turned up. I knew it was normal and going to pass eventually.

Not sure but think ct might be too tough. I'd try to reduce somehow smoothly.

Wish you Good Luck with all my heart!)

 

[[Pa...]]

If you can't continue with this cold turkey then my advice is to get on a steady dose of Valium, get stable (stable means able to perform your basic daily tasks like showering or simple meal preparation) then begin a slow taper.  It will probably take awhile to find a dose that will work for you because you'll want to start low and give that dose time to build up.  If after a week or two you're still not stable, then you might want to add a little more but doing this slowly now will help you find the right dose.  Adding more each day will just lead you to a high dose that may not be necessary, going slow will hopefully allow you to find the right one for you.

I would also advise staying away from alcohol, it will be too difficult to know what dose is right for you if you're supplementing with alcohol. 

3 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Would you go on and try an eek things out for as long as I can .. more days to then take the least dose I can to relieve the symptoms, or is this a recipe for disaster? 

This is not a good idea, your brain needs consistency and slow and steady reductions will do the least harm.  If you saw in the link I provided about kindling, taking the drug PRN can lead to kindling.

[[Sw...]]

Hi @[Bl...] I thank God you have decided to come to this supportive community of people and inquire for help. I am going to be honest with you as a former addict myself of all sorts of drugs and risk seeking behavior: you need to get professional help to do this. You are an alcoholic for a reason, you are abusing benzodiazepines for a reason. You have to prepare for the fight of your life if you TRULY want to discover who you are again, and expect there to be deep pain along the way to sobriety. 
 

I relate so much to your story, though we are in different stages of life. My first encounter with benzodiazepines was in high school. I got them from friends, dealers, my mom. And I’d cycle from pain killers to alcohol to synthetic heroin to heroin back to benzodiazepines. I don’t know how I’m alive. 
 

Anyways, my sister, my fellow addict, you need to get help to do this. This last time took me 8 days before I was hit with the most severe and debilitating withdrawal symptoms of my life. Kindling is real. Be prepared. Don’t suffer if you don’t have to. Other members are right, you need to stabilize and then wean down. You’re saturated in the drug but when it dries up from your fat stores and so forth you’re going to be miserable. Seizures are real. You can’t think clearly because of these drugs. I say all this with love. Right now you’re not stable. 
 

Can you just share a hypothetical plan with us to stabilize? I know I’m being “tough love” here and so luckily other members will be way softer on you but your life is at stake. You could be having such a happier life and be a better mom and wife. You could be HAPPY for once… like real happiness not just chasing the feeling of happiness. My heart is breaking for you, but I also believe in you. 
 

please don’t stop posting. Please keep us updated <3

[[Bl...]]

Sweetsurrender 

Thank you for just getting it !! 
 

It runs much deeper and I know I’ve used all drugs as a way of blocking out and coping with suppressed issues I’ve never dealt with . 

What starts out as a panacea and what you think is a way to deal with things, without realising it will just push things further back into not being dealt with and then it all comes crowding in physically when you try to stop . 
 

Right , I think I’m kindling . I think this is it . I would wouldn’t I after 13 years of it in my body and the down regulation of GABA . The 5mg barely touched the headache but it was the new symptom of these brain zaps that came on , like an electric cattle prod in my brain . 
 

This morning I woke up with the pounding head again , foggy brain and blurred eyesight to add to it now . 
I’ve taken a 10mg and I feel like Ahhh God I NEEDED that . 
 

So I’m thinking trying to stabilise on 10mg and then taper from there . I will go see a new GP tomorrow and explain my situation honestly and hopefully she will help and see me through the taper with at least the Benzo’s to do this . 
 

So a day at a time does show you what your body can tolerate, I think I can get to day 2/3 and then the withdrawal pops up and as you say I’ve 13 years of on and off Benzo use in my tissues and nicking my own GABA and the milk train stops here . 
I got to find a way out of this and I will.

Thanks my addiction sister . 
if you can link me to your story or PM me I’d appreciate that . 
 

[[Bl...]]

16 hours ago, [[P...] said:

If you can't continue with this cold turkey then my advice is to get on a steady dose of Valium, get stable (stable means able to perform your basic daily tasks like showering or simple meal preparation) then begin a slow taper.  It will probably take awhile to find a dose that will work for you because you'll want to start low and give that dose time to build up.  If after a week or two you're still not stable, then you might want to add a little more but doing this slowly now will help you find the right dose.  Adding more each day will just lead you to a high dose that may not be necessary, going slow will hopefully allow you to find the right one for you.

I would also advise staying away from alcohol, it will be too difficult to know what dose is right for you if you're supplementing with alcohol. 

This is not a good idea, your brain needs consistency and slow and steady reductions will do the least harm.  If you saw in the link I provided about kindling, taking the drug PRN can lead to kindling.

I can’t … the head issues ended up with electric zapping shocks by the time I took the 5mg and this morning my head was in a vice (never had headaches before ) my eyesight is blurring . 
I’ve taken a 10mg and will start there , it was a nice moment and has got me out of that head pain and visual disturbances. I’ll try and stabilise there and see my Doctor tomorrow for a regular dose to taper . 
 

Oh well I tried 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

I bet everyone in the know was  counting 5,4,3,2,1 BOOM 🤯 

I think it was kindling and I was only a few days out , I’ve a lot to read and learn here . And I will .

thankyou 

[[Bl...]]

15 hours ago, [[S...] said:

Hi @[Bl...] I thank God you have decided to come to this supportive community of people and inquire for help. I am going to be honest with you as a former addict myself of all sorts of drugs and risk seeking behavior: you need to get professional help to do this. You are an alcoholic for a reason, you are abusing benzodiazepines for a reason. You have to prepare for the fight of your life if you TRULY want to discover who you are again, and expect there to be deep pain along the way to sobriety. 
 

I relate so much to your story, though we are in different stages of life. My first encounter with benzodiazepines was in high school. I got them from friends, dealers, my mom. And I’d cycle from pain killers to alcohol to synthetic heroin to heroin back to benzodiazepines. I don’t know how I’m alive. 
 

Anyways, my sister, my fellow addict, you need to get help to do this. This last time took me 8 days before I was hit with the most severe and debilitating withdrawal symptoms of my life. Kindling is real. Be prepared. Don’t suffer if you don’t have to. Other members are right, you need to stabilize and then wean down. You’re saturated in the drug but when it dries up from your fat stores and so forth you’re going to be miserable. Seizures are real. You can’t think clearly because of these drugs. I say all this with love. Right now you’re not stable. 
 

Can you just share a hypothetical plan with us to stabilize? I know I’m being “tough love” here and so luckily other members will be way softer on you but your life is at stake. You could be having such a happier life and be a better mom and wife. You could be HAPPY for once… like real happiness not just chasing the feeling of happiness. My heart is breaking for you, but I also believe in you. 
 

please don’t stop posting. Please keep us updated <3

Sorry didn’t quote you but answers further up ⬆️ thanks so much 

[[Bl...]]

[[Sw...]]

@[Bl...] I will respond later! Busy today but wanted to say quickly: you can do this and there is so much support here! Just the good and positive people here are such a life saver when others can’t understand even if they want to sympathize. Hope your head inproves! 

[[...]]

6 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Thank you Kate . 
You are a very positive person with encouragement and empathy . 
I think it’s going to have to be a taper with me . 
I got swept along with the high of making the decision to just come off these things , I think that drove me on until day 4 I hit the wall and hit it hard yesterday afternoon. I never want to feel a cattle prod in my brain again😳

Taper it is then 🤞

I think a taper is the best decision but it might be also on a rough side sometimes. Just don't get discouraged too quickly if things don't go well. My tapering was rather a hard way but the result is worth all the suffering. Really. And you can do it meticulously. I didn't but all the same i like what i'm getting out of it.

Wish you patience and strengths! And listen to your clever brain but allow for its being a bit messed with changing biochemistry at the time of wd. Everything will go right in the end!)🌈

[[Bl...]]

[[...]]

8 hours ago, [[B...] said:

How long did it take you to taper Kate? 
Did you just do it in weekly phases only ? Or did you hold the dose at any time ? 
What increments did you reduce by? 
I think Doctors of the garden variety just tend to give you 10mg 5mg and 2mg and reduce you down over a matter of a couple of months . 
I don’t really fancy the idea of it taking a year, if I can get over the initial brain pain I’m hoping I can cope with the rest . 
At least the Benzo’s do still work on me 🙏 the people I really feel for are like yourself that take their dose or an even smaller dose than previous prescriptions and they are straight into a vicious WD . 
Thanks for your encouragement. And I’m so happy you are through the other side , onwards and upwards for you now 🤞🤞🤞

@[Bl...], thank you)

I can't say i'm completely ok but in comparison to what it was like a year or two ago, i'm in an earthly paradise)

My tapering took 6 months. Sure it wasn't the best taper ever. I cut and hold for 2+- weeks. And a few weeks prior to the process i'd cut my dosage in more than a half overnight. So it was a disaster from the beginning but it had been no better for a year in tolerance. That's why i say you can do it meticulously taking into account all the information BB provides you with. I didn't have the opportunity.

I don't like the idea of too long a taper either. But if you want to have it short you really must be ready for lots of unpleasant surprises, although, sure, they can be coped with and will be over one day.

Good luck to you! I'd so much like you to join us on this other brighter side) You can do it! I believe in you, true🍒

Edited March 14 by [...]