Tapering with Ora plus

[[Mi...]]

I’m getting ready to start a new taper. I tried the switching from Klonopin to Valium. I couldn’t handle it so I was switched back to Klonopin and started back at my original dose. I’ve looked into the water titration method and I tried to just test it by making a dose a couple times, and I just made a mess and my teva Klonopin hardly broke up even after a hour. Someone told me about using ora plus. I worry about adding things to anything as most do. I did hear it was safe to use Ora plus..
I take Klonopin.50 MGs four times a day which equals 2 mg a day total I saw a video on doing it with PG sort of understand it so any help with this would be great and it’s better to use ora plus than PG when I looked it up on the Internet it seemed pretty safe to use is it better? The math I kind of understand but I was wondering if anybody’s had any issues with doing it this way or has done it this way with the Ora plus?
The video I saw you make a 10 day supply that’s a lot if I did it, I was going to possibly try to do it for at least a couple weeks of just the daily amount. Any information on anyone that has done it this way with the Ora  plus it be appreciated. Also, any help with the math would be appreciated. I was wanting to cut 2% every 10 days which would equal 6% every 30 days I know I can slow it down or speed it up according to my symptoms. Just nervous about it, so anyhow, would be appreciated.

I do not have compound pharmacy near me. My doctor will not work with me on tapering he believes I need it🤦🏻‍♀️ . I live in very rural area and there is not many doctors here I’ve called around. I have to stay with the doctor I’m with and do this on my own.

Here is the formula I seen, but don’t know if it’s correct again any advice on anyone that’s taking this and how it affected them and if this even looks right or any advice at all this tapering method would be greatly appreciated. Including equipment needed. Thanks.

To do daily to see how it works would be this way then if I did the 10 days worth I would multiply these by 10? 

2 mg Klonopin 

4 ml Ora plus 

16 ml water 

=4 doses of  .50mls of this solution 

[[pi...]]

Hello @[Mi...] and welcome to Benzo Buddies!

While using a compounded formula would be the best, I see your dilemma in terms of needing to work with your present provider. You can be successful using ora plus. I have no experience with this  method of tapering so I can’t offer much advice but I did want to approve your first post so that others who can offer information can help you with this plan.

I am very happy you joined the forum. Having support from those who really understand this process is extremely helpful. 
 

pianogirl 

[[Li...]]

3 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Here is the formula I seen, but don’t know if it’s correct again any advice on anyone that’s taking this and how it affected them and if this even looks right or any advice at all this tapering method would be greatly appreciated. Including equipment needed. Thanks.

To do daily to see how it works would be this way then if I did the 10 days worth I would multiply these by 10? 

2 mg Klonopin 

4 ml Ora plus 

16 ml water 

=4 doses of  .50mls of this solution 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies, @[Mi...].  Would you please let us know where you saw this formula?  Was it on YouTube?  In another benzo support group/community?  Other?  You are the second member who has referred to this recently so it’s important for us to track down the source. 

The formula is problematic for multiple reasons.  Two of them are: (1) it incorrectly states that it will produce a solution (OraPlus is a suspending vehicle not a solvent) and (2) it exceeds the maximum dilution for OraPlus (if memory serves, OraPlus can only be diluted up to 50% with water before it loses its suspending properties). 

If you wish to make a do-it-yourself clonazepam suspension, I encourage you to use a professionally developed, stability-tested formulation such as the one linked below.  The instructions and equipment needed are included.

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension
https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

[[Mi...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

Welcome to BenzoBuddies, @[Mi...].  Would you please let us know where you saw this formula?  Was it on YouTube?  In another benzo support group/community?  Other?  You are the second member who has referred to this recently so it’s important for us to track down the source. 

The formula is problematic for multiple reasons.  Two of them are: (1) it incorrectly states that it will produce a solution (OraPlus is a suspending vehicle not a solvent) and (2) it exceeds the maximum dilution for OraPlus (if memory serves, OraPlus can only be diluted up to 50% with water before it loses its suspending properties). 

If you wish to make a do-it-yourself clonazepam suspension, I encourage you to use a professionally developed, stability-tested formulation such as the one linked below.  The instructions and equipment needed are included.

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension
https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

Hi this is where I found it on YouTube she uses PG but says can use Ora plus. I could try PG but idk how good that is for you. 

 

[[Li...]]

Thank you for sharing the source of the formula, @[Mi...].   I’m sure the person who made this video back in October 2020 was well-intentioned but it contains multiple false/unsubstantiated claims. 

[[Mi...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

Thank you for sharing the source of the formula, @[Mi...].   I’m sure the person who made this video back in October 2020 was well-intentioned but it contains multiple false/unsubstantiated claims. 

I’m glad I asked. Thank you 

Does anyone have a taper plane that’s not the dry cutting pills? I wanted to do the water titration but I can’t get the Teva Klonopin to even really go into tiny pieces after a hr almost sitting in the water. Idk another way I can’t dry cut and measure so any suggestions would be amazing 

[[je...]]

24 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

I’m glad I asked. Thank you 

Does anyone have a taper plane that’s not the dry cutting pills? I wanted to do the water titration but I can’t get the Teva Klonopin to even really go into tiny pieces after a hr almost sitting in the water. Idk another way I can’t dry cut and measure so any suggestions would be amazing 

@[Mi...]

Why don't you use the formula @[Li...] shared with you? It is very similar to what you wanted to do, it also uses 2mg tablets with OraPlus, you just don't dilute it with water? Furthermore, according to the document, this suspension can last up to 60 days in the fridge.

[[cc...]]

On 26/02/2024 at 17:26, [[j...] said:

@[Mi...]

Why don't you use the formula @[Li...] shared with you? It is very similar to what you wanted to do, it also uses 2mg tablets with OraPlus, you just don't dilute it with water? Furthermore, according to the document, this suspension can last up to 60 days in the fridge.

I guess I was the other guy that used to dilute based on the YT film. I cannot wrap my mind at the instructions to dilute when I couldn’t fine anything remotely supporting that! I asked the person responsible but kept assuring me that it’s fully legit and blest by pharmacists.

She takes enormous offence when challenged and shut me down (not literally), when I challenged her with benzo buddies.

I feel it might be worthwhile to comment on this or the other (instructions YT), to challenge her. I’m not trying to hurt anyone it not telling me who and where gives this info, is bad. She gave me this exact file to show that it’s legit but the file talks about Ora only and ignores the idea of dilution!!!

The mg to solution is the same as hers but just using carrier liquid.

Question to @[Li...]: It really would be helpful to understand the instructions because it’s not friendly for starters; like geometrical and other fancy terms.

Is there anyone that is a layman or a member if BB that can assist step by step, including where and what tools to buy? Please…

[[Li...]]

@[cc...]

Per your request, the video below shows the techniques and equipment used to make a suspension with regular tablets as the drug source.  Note that the formulation used in the video is for a metronidazole suspension not a clonazepam suspension. 

If you wish to continue discussing your particular case, might I encourage you to start your own thread on the Benzodiazepine Taper Strategies forum? To do so:

• Click the words “Benzodiazepine Taper Strategies” in the breadcrumb trail at the top of this page; then click the “Start New Topic” button.  
• Please include a succinct summary of your benzo use and tapering history, including your current total daily dose, daily dosing schedule, tablet strength, and desired taper rate. 

Notes:

1. In the video, glycerin is used as the wetting agent.  In the formulation for the clonazepam oral suspension we’ve been discussing, OraPlus is used as both the wetting agent and the suspending agent.  
2. The approach shown in this video is superior to the one given in the print formulation because it addresses the issue of drug loss due to surface transfer.
3. The bottle used to store the resulting suspension must be calibrated before use.  The markings on such bottles are inaccurate.

Based on conversations with my compounding pharmacist, keys to preparing a successful suspension using regular tablets as the drug source include:

1. Crush and triturate (grind) the tablets into fine, evenly sized particles using a mortar and pestle.
2. Wet the resulting powder via geometric dilution (i.e. do not add all of the liquid at once, instead add it in stages, mixing well at each stage to eliminate clumps).
3. Take appropriate steps to minimize drug loss due to surface transfer.

 

Edited February 28 by [Li...]
Typo, clarification

[[cc...]]

2 hours ago, [[L...] said:

@[cc...]

The video below demonstrates how to compound a simple metronidazole suspension using regular tablets as the drug source.  It will provide you with an overview of the techniques and equipment used (all of the gear can be purchased on Amazon). 

If you wish to continue discussing your particular case, might I encourage you to start your own thread on the Benzodiazepine Taper Strategies forum? To do so:

• Click the words “Benzodiazepine Taper Strategies” in the breadcrumb trail at the top of this page; then click the “Start New Topic” button.  
• Please include a succinct summary of your benzo use and tapering history, including your current total daily dose, daily dosing schedule, tablet strength, and desired taper rate. 

Notes:

1. In the video, glycerol is used as the wetting agent.  In the formulation for the clonazepam oral suspension we’ve been discussing, OraPlus is used as both the wetting agent and the suspending agent.  
2. The approach shown in this video is superior to the one given in the print formulation because it addresses the issue of drug loss due to surface transfer.
3. The bottle used to store the resulting suspension must be calibrated before use.  The markings on such bottles are inaccurate.

Based on conversations with my compounding pharmacist, keys to preparing a successful suspension using regular tablets as the drug source include:

1. Crush and triturate (grind) the tablets into fine, evenly sized particles using a mortar and pestle.
2. Wet the resulting powder via geometric dilution (i.e. do not add all of the liquid at once, instead add it in stages, mixing well at each stage to eliminate clumps).
3. Take appropriate steps to minimize drug loss due to surface transfer.

@[Li...]

I have specific questions about the method used in the demonstration. Is it ok if I ask you about it without going through new post? I’d have to reference this while information into a new post!

In the future I’d make a new post; I just need this vital demonstration explained. Basically, it’s hard to get versa plus so I’d like to know if OraPlus is just as good. Also, would it work for klonopin pills?

How does this method ensure that powder doesn’t settle? I assume it’s not a solution but a suspension.

Can I do this with less pills at a time; like 5 klonopin pills?

I know you’re busy but you’re doing me a great favor. Bless you.

[[cc...]]

2 hours ago, [[L...] said:

@[cc...]

The video below demonstrates how to compound a simple metronidazole suspension using regular tablets as the drug source.  It will provide you with an overview of the techniques and equipment used (all of the gear can be purchased on Amazon). 

If you wish to continue discussing your particular case, might I encourage you to start your own thread on the Benzodiazepine Taper Strategies forum? To do so:

• Click the words “Benzodiazepine Taper Strategies” in the breadcrumb trail at the top of this page; then click the “Start New Topic” button.  
• Please include a succinct summary of your benzo use and tapering history, including your current total daily dose, daily dosing schedule, tablet strength, and desired taper rate. 

Notes:

1. In the video, glycerol is used as the wetting agent.  In the formulation for the clonazepam oral suspension we’ve been discussing, OraPlus is used as both the wetting agent and the suspending agent.  
2. The approach shown in this video is superior to the one given in the print formulation because it addresses the issue of drug loss due to surface transfer.
3. The bottle used to store the resulting suspension must be calibrated before use.  The markings on such bottles are inaccurate.

Based on conversations with my compounding pharmacist, keys to preparing a successful suspension using regular tablets as the drug source include:

1. Crush and triturate (grind) the tablets into fine, evenly sized particles using a mortar and pestle.
2. Wet the resulting powder via geometric dilution (i.e. do not add all of the liquid at once, instead add it in stages, mixing well at each stage to eliminate clumps).
3. Take appropriate steps to minimize drug loss due to surface transfer.

One more thing. Just a correction: they use glycerine (I hope vegetable!), not glycerol 

[[Li...]]

Thank you for catching my typo @[cc...].  I’ve corrected it above plus added a clarification that the purpose of the video is to show the techniques and equipment used to make a suspension with regular tablets as the drug source.  The formulation used in the video is for a metronidazole suspension not a clonazepam suspension.