I don't know what's happening

[[kp...]]

I don't know what is happening and I feel like I'm almost about to break and give in to my taper, go back on Klonopin for the rest of my life and fail this. I've gone back and forth from trying to taper Klonopin to tapering Valium. I've been on Diazepam mostly since 2016 so around 8 years with Xanax preceding that sporadically from 2013-2015 not knowing it was making my anxiety disorder and panic attacks worse. Since 2020 I was at 4mg of Klonopin and on Zoloft. I got off Zoloft in 2022 and in 2023 was put back on Klonopin because the Valium was just giving me such terrible depression. I tapered a compound solution via syringe of Klonopin from 1mg in June 2023 to .475 at the end of November. I didn't sleep for 4 days and would wake up screaming 10 min after I'd fall asleep.

I had a new psych say I needed to go back on the Valium and we started tapering at 10mg. I was at 5mg all of January. Now, in Feb, things are out of control. I've never had this before. I have panic attacks and terror that come in waves every 20 minutes. I'm ending up back in the E.R having classic heart attack mimic symptoms. All I can do for work is Uber Eats and similar apps and the last week I can do about three and then have a full blown panic attack and have to go home. I took 4 times my dose last night to just try and even things out since what else could this be. It just made me uncomfortably sedated and all of those thoughts and terror were still there. Having constant panic all night. Shaking, tremors or shivering. So increasing my dose doesn't help. Nobody can live like this. What even is this level of suffering? If I can't increase the dose for relief and the 5mg I am on is practically just as bad, where do I go from here? At almost feels at this point that I need to just rapidly get it out and then detox at facility with phenobarb for seizure risk and just get it out of my system and then recover from there because this isn't any better this is torture. My psych says maybe I am just one of those people that needs to stay on Klonopin for the rest of my life and I don't want that. I'd just have to contend with this 10-20 years down the line when things could be an even more unimaginable nightmare.  Any help would be greatly appreciated, I don't know who to turn to or what to do.

Other things to note, the doctor gave me 1mg Xanax (2 tablets for emergencies) I have used 4 tablets total since the beginning of February and 2 last week. I think it is making things worse so I am not getting it refilled. 
I don't know if I need to include information in a certain format for this, just me know and I will edit it.

Kpinister
 

[[Pa...]]

Its not uncommon not get much benefit from taking more of the medication when you're in bad shape, especially Valium.  You mentioned you started at 10 mgs Valium, when was that?  How much are you tapering and how often?

I agree that taking the Xanax PRN isn't a good idea given you're trying to taper, and tapering now is better than later, it only gets harder as we age. 

[[kp...]]

Prescribed 10mg Valium December 2023. That felt heavily sedating and way stronger than where I felt I was at in my K taper so I broke them in half and took 5mg for most of December and January no problem. Stabilized except for the debilitating depression Valium gives me. Everything has gone crazy starting 10 days ago. I can't increase the dose without feeling worse and the current dose 5mg I'm not functioning having waves every 20-30 minutes of pure panic thinking of nothing but my immanent death. Can it really present itself 6 weeks at a 5mg dose? Is this tolerance withdrawal? What do I do? Do I need to switch back to K if the Valium I am on is basically only keeping me from seizing at this point? 



2005-2022 100mg Zoloft
2016-2018 10mg Valium, 100mg Zoloft
2018 2mg Klonopin, 100mg Zoloft
2019 4mg Klonopin, 100mg Zoloft
Aug 2020, 4mg Klonopin to 40mg Valium
Aug 2021 2mg Klonopin
Jan 2022 40mg Valium
December 2022 10mg Valium
February 2023 1mg Klonopin
November 2023 .475mg Klonopin
December 2023-Present 5mg Valium

[[...]]

I would have finished my taper with the klon. Also I would never mix in Xanax. Even occasionally.

I suggest leveling out and going super slow.

[[Nu...]]

6 hours ago, [[k...] said:

At almost feels at this point that I need to just rapidly get it out and then detox at facility with phenobarb for seizure risk and just get it out of my system and then recover from there because this isn't any better this is torture.

FWIW, this is generally a horrible idea. Too fast of a taper likely contributes to protracted symptoms and equates to more neurological damage. That absolutely seems to be a trend, from what Dr. Ashton stated to what I've seen myself and in my own journey. Please understand the potential damage that can occur before you make this decision.

Benzo withdrawal is really not appropriate for any type of rapid detox facility. The risks are too great.

[[Nu...]]

Also, it seems you need to decide on clonazepam vs diazepam. You seem to be flip flopping between the two. They're not the same. You need consistency.

[[bw...]]

In my experience. "Rescue" doses are very bad. You will pay the price. I know i did and its just not worth it.

I dont believe you will seizure coming off 5mg val. i dont believe its a high enough dose. (Can anyone confirm this??).

But the withdrawal will obviously be extreme like you are in now. I completly know how you feel and im sorry.

 

If it was me i would stablize on your dose you said with 5mg val. And keep pushing through with tapering. I remember my taper was horrific and I was just like you. I kept tapering with NO RELIEF. I coukdnt stablize whatsoever.

I couldnt escape. Frequent panic attacks /adrenaline rushes and terror. No sleep. So i understand. I thought I was dying at every second of every day.

Be strong. And be very mindful of rescue dosing. They can really destablize your taper and in my experience have a paradoxial effect and cause MORE symptoms especially when the rescue dose starts to wear off the peak plasma stage.

Goodluck whether you choose to Cold turkey the remaining 5mg or taper it. The least you could do is follow the ashton manual (yes i know its faster than most like). But if you follow that route you will be off it soon.

Myself went half the ashton manual speed when I got to 5mg.

So just halve those ratios prof ashton suggested.

 

Edited February 23 by [bw...]

[[ma...]]

In my case I was reducing perhaps a little quickly, I had a very bad time, but seeing that I couldn't stabilize myself Continue with the reduction, switch from clonazepam to diazepam at the last moment, which is the most difficult.Try not to increase or add more psychiatric medications, is my opinion.I helped myself throughout the process with 90% indica marijuana infusions.I think they did help me.And now he takes nicotinamide 500mg, I read a story that he took it to calm his anxiety and panic attacks.Although this xica did not have the withdrawal syndrome.If I were you, I would stay at the current dose for a while and if it doesn't stabilize, continue reducing.But a very slow reduction.I am not a doctor, I base this on my experience, sometimes nothing helps and all that remains is to pray that God has mercy and it passes soon.Aaaa I also read that intravenous Nad+ helps with withdrawal, there are studies in Pubmed.I haven't used it, but I'm considering it, first I'm trying nicotinamide, It is a precursor to nad, a class of vitamin b3.Encouragement and courage to endure the storm.

[[Pa...]]

Wow @[kp...], your benzodiazepine use has been very erratic, and in August of 2020 you were on the equivalent of 120 mgs of Valium!  Your central nervous system has been through a lot.  

I agree with @[Nu...], its important to pick a medication and stay on it for the duration, I'm wondering if you do better with Klonopin?

I believe holding or even up-dosing to try to achieve some stability, then tapering very slowly is an option you might want to consider. 

[[kp...]]

Thank you all for your support. It is good to know I am not the only one feeling this way. My family/psych keeps urging me to go back on a higher dose of Klonopin and just stay on it for life. I tried very hard to taper the Klonopin with a suspended compound solution and using a syringe reducing .05mg every two weeks. I just could not get below .475mg. As you all know, it is not linear, it is bell curvish, and as I reached that dose I fell off a cliff. I could not sleep at all. No sleep with night terrors vs at least some sleep with Diazepam is my reason for staying on the Diazepam. I will try to stay at 5mg and then just do 10% lower every two weeks to a month from there on I guess. Appreciate everyone's feedback. Currently typing with another night of panic attacks every 8 minutes with 10 min of relief repeating all night long. I hope I can hold on.

[[...]]

Try some distraction techniques during the 10 minute relief periods of time. You may find the attacks will become further apart and not as intense. Then fade away. 

You could also try going a little higher on the med. But whatever amount you feel you are able to handle will be your tapering starting point.

Then go very slow and figure out what works for you. That may be 5% cuts. There is probably no way to get off symptom free. But it doesn't have to be hellish either.

If you're decided and determined, better sooner than later. 

Good luck.

[[Pa...]]

The manufacturers of these drugs indicate they should only be used for 2-4 weeks, they know from their own studies that the longer we stay on the drug, the less effective it is and the more it begins to create the symptoms we're hoping it will address.  You know this, your doctor does not.

I'm glad you know which medication you want to continue your taper with, good but please, please consider holding and when you're ready, resume your taper.  But, only reduce when your symptoms tell you to.  Rushing to complete your taper only ensures you'll suffer when complete.  Its better to use the drug to mitigate symptoms as you taper because once off the drug, you won't have it and you'll be at their mercy.

My suggestion would be a 5% reduction or even less, you've been suffering too much for no good reason. 

[[Bu...]]

@[kp...],

I am so very sorry for everything you are going through.  I agree that picking a med and stabilizing is the best option.  Just a note about "stabilizing".  I used to think this meant that I would feel well, or reasonably well.  It doesn't.  It just means getting to the point where you can function and feel that things aren't getting worse.  Maybe you already knew that, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway. 

Also, though I know it doesn't seem possible right now, once you pick a route and hold for a while, you will start to improve.  I really do think that the back and forth is part of what is causing so many problems.  I tried this at the very beginning of my taper and it was horrible.  When I switched to a steady routine, things improved.

[[kp...]]

6 hours ago, [[B...] said:

@[kp...],

I am so very sorry for everything you are going through.  I agree that picking a med and stabilizing is the best option.  Just a note about "stabilizing".  I used to think this meant that I would feel well, or reasonably well.  It doesn't.  It just means getting to the point where you can function and feel that things aren't getting worse.  Maybe you already knew that, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway. 

Also, though I know it doesn't seem possible right now, once you pick a route and hold for a while, you will start to improve.  I really do think that the back and forth is part of what is causing so many problems.  I tried this at the very beginning of my taper and it was horrible.  When I switched to a steady routine, things improved.

 I didn't know this about stabilizing actually so thank you for the information. That is very overwhelming to hear.

[[Bu...]]

@[kp...],

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you.  It also doesn't necessarily mean that you won't feel significantly better between cuts.  I just meant don't count on feeling well after every one of them.  Sometimes I felt pretty decent about two-ish weeks after a cut.  I just didn't want you to think that you couldn't move forward unless you felt completely normal.  After you stabilize where you currently are, this process is very doable and we are all here to support you through it.

[[An...]]

8 hours ago, [[B...] said:

@[kp...],

I am so very sorry for everything you are going through.  I agree that picking a med and stabilizing is the best option.  Just a note about "stabilizing".  I used to think this meant that I would feel well, or reasonably well.  It doesn't.  It just means getting to the point where you can function and feel that things aren't getting worse.  Maybe you already knew that, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway. 

Also, though I know it doesn't seem possible right now, once you pick a route and hold for a while, you will start to improve.  I really do think that the back and forth is part of what is causing so many problems.  I tried this at the very beginning of my taper and it was horrible.  When I switched to a steady routine, things improved.

Agreed, stable does not guarantee you will feel good. It would be great if you could get stable and feel halfway decent but many ppl are sick throughout their taper, but they remain steadfast & keep pushing through, esp. after you have tried updosing only to discover things get worse when you do. 

I feel so bad reading a post like what @[kp...] wrote bc I know how bad the suffering can be and how debilitating the SXs are. I only wish we had better ways of treating disorders like panic, anxiety, and depression instead of trying to manage with Rx meds by masking SXs. Long-term management using benzos and ssri's for SX suppression fails for the majority of us, leaving many of us much worse than we were before we started taking the drugs. It is one helluva catch 22.

[[kp...]]

I guess at this point maybe I will just post this as a marker of how things are progressively getting worse. I'm holding on this dose, but every time I go to sleep now I get about 20-40 minutes of sleep and wake up with impending doom. My blood pressure is always normal but shoots up to 160/100 vs 112/72. Heart is pounding away at 150bpm when taking my dog out, I can't breathe, and I don't know how not to call the paramedics. Are these even more symptom? I have had a full cardiac workup (stress test, echo, heart monitor 30day, ecgs, chest xrays, blood work always fine). I feel like I'm on the verge of death but I hate using my small city's resources. The paramedics are always so nasty to me cuz I've been on a trip with them so many times. Not completely unwarranted, I have atrial fib as well but I am not in that at the moment. Any reassurance that this is all benzo withdrawal would be a great comfort right now. Only other medicine I took 6 hours ago was 6.25mg of Promethazine to help sleep and with nausea/migraine. 

[[An...]]

You have gotten medical clearance that your SXs  are not being caused by a physical organ like your heart so I suspect this is indeed benzo w/d.

I recall when I was a lot younger and did not know what was happening to me. Like you said, it does feel like you are on the verge of death. That is exactly how I felt and I also had many trips to the ER only to be told there is nothing wrong except it's your anxiety. Then, they give you more benzos to calm you down, send you away, and tell you to follow-up with your PCP. What they fail to realize is that the tolerance w/d from the benzos have now made things 10X worse than you were @ baseline.

[[Ma...]]

I’m feeling for you so much.

When I was in acute having rolling panic attacks at night 2 things that helped me was guided panic attack meditations on Insight Timer. Instead of self talk trying to calm down, I listened to a very soothing voice telling me how to calm down. It helped so much.

If you have a TV in your bedroom you can search YouTube for ocean sounds, jungle, rain and put it on black. That can also soothe you.

Once you do stabilize you probably WILL feel BETTER. Trust that, even if other’s did not. Maybe not 100%, but much better.

As everyone has chimed in, stick to 1 and don’t chase the anxiety/panic with additional doses. You have to find a way to have a steady-STEADY-amount in your system.

Keep going! You’ve got a lot of people rooting for you!

Edited February 24 by [Ma...]