Crippling depression. Any advice?

[[Md...]]

Valium has always made me feel depressed, but as i have been tapering, the depression seems to get stronger. It feels like my lens on life is like looking through a dark and gloomy storm cloud and there’s no light at the end of the tunnel.

I also have other symptoms, which all contribute to this deep depression as well, just making things that much harder. It’s almost paralyzing at times.

I eat well, exercise, do yoga, have hobbies, etc, but I can’t seem to escape the despair and apathy that I find myself having to constantly push through. 

I rarely find joy in anything anymore, and often feel my existence is worthless, and feel like a burden to others.

I don’t always feel this way, and i do have moments of clarity and hope, but it’s often difficult to find meaning in the present moment.

Has anyone else felt this way? If so, did you find anything that helped?

I was even thinking about getting on an antidepressant, especially since some of them have pain relieving effects for chronic pain, which is a part of my depression and is what got me on benzos to begin with. 

Edited February 22 by [Md...]

[[Kh...]]

33 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Valium has always made me feel depressed, but as i have been tapering, the depression seems to get stronger. It feels like my lens on life is like looking through a dark and gloomy storm cloud and there’s no light at the end of the tunnel.

I also have other symptoms, which all contribute to this deep depression as well, just making things that much harder. It’s almost paralyzing at times.

I eat well, exercise, do yoga, have hobbies, etc, but I can’t seem to escape the despair and apathy that I find myself having to constantly push through. 

I rarely find joy in anything anymore, and often feel my existence is worthless, and feel like a burden to others.

I don’t always feel this way, and i do have moments of clarity and hope, but it’s often difficult to find meaning in the present moment.

Has anyone else felt this way? If so, did you find anything that helped?

I was even thinking about getting on an antidepressant, especially since some of them have pain relieving effects for chronic pain, which is a part of my depression and is what got me on benzos to begin with. 

No answers but I can relate.  Valium has its benefits in taper but it also has its drawbacks.  I just finished taper and in the same place as you.  No joy in stuff I used to love.  Can’t even enjoy a little red wine which used to be a staple for me at dinner time.  I golf, but feel crappy, I cook and do chores but don’t have any motivation.  Lots of time in bed.  Feel accomplished when I get to the kitchen and cook, but then straight to the couch.  Can’t seem to exercise.  Know I should.  At least out of bed.  I too am considering ADs  gonna go see a new Psych in a few weeks and see what he says.  In the mean time it’s  survival mode.  My symptoms are ear pain and pressure and tinnitus.  It must go away or lessen at some point.  Hang in there..one hour at a time?  

Edited February 22 by [Kh...]

[[Md...]]

17 minutes ago, [[K...] said:

No answers but I can relate.  Valium has its benefits in taper but it also has its drawbacks.  I just finished taper and in the same place as you.  No joy in stuff I used to love.  Can’t even enjoy a little red wine which used to be a staple for me at dinner time.  I golf, but feel crappy, I cook and do chores but don’t have any motivation.  Lots of time in bed.  Feel accomplished when I get to the kitchen and cook, but then straight to the couch.  Can’t seem to exercise.  Know I should.  At least out of bed.  I too am considering ADs  gonna go see a new Psych in a few weeks and see what he says.  In the mean time it’s  survival mode.  My symptoms are ear pain and pressure and tinnitus.  It must go away or lessen at some point.  Hang in there..one hour at a time?  

Congrats on finishing your taper. I’m only about two months into what was supposed to be a 10 to 19 month long taper, so im hoping things don’t get much worse.

Did you have these symptoms while tapering as well?

Edited February 22 by [Md...]

[[Kh...]]

3 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Congrats on finishing your taper. I’m only about two months into what was supposed to be a 10 to 19 month long taper, so im hoping things don’t get much worse.

Did you have these symptoms while tapering as well?

Thanks.  Yes, sorry to say, the whole way.  I did a 16 week taper from 20 mg basically.  It was close to Ashton give or take.  Some say too fast but it’s over.  My ears won’t leave me alone and feel heavy head and some headache too.  A lot of the time I want out somehow.    Seems like there was a time, maybe I was at 5 mg or so, stuff seemed better.  No clue what to do but to ride it out.  Gonna see ENT Dr again but pretty sure they can’t help.  I will also see audiologist about tinnitus.  

[[Md...]]

1 hour ago, [[K...] said:

Thanks.  Yes, sorry to say, the whole way.  I did a 16 week taper from 20 mg basically.  It was close to Ashton give or take.  Some say too fast but it’s over.  My ears won’t leave me alone and feel heavy head and some headache too.  A lot of the time I want out somehow.    Seems like there was a time, maybe I was at 5 mg or so, stuff seemed better.  No clue what to do but to ride it out.  Gonna see ENT Dr again but pretty sure they can’t help.  I will also see audiologist about tinnitus.  

Thanks for sharing, and best of luck. Hopefully those symptoms will reside sooner rather than later. 

[[Ma...]]

@[Md...] I’m so sorry to hear about your crippling depression. I too am experiencing this.

If you decide to try an a/d, which Ashton says can be helpful, I would encourage you to 1st take a gene test. It will tell you exactly what is right for you. For example I am unable to metabolize SSRI’s or Remeron.

Also it might be prudent to start at an extremely low dose, a micro dose, then slowly build up until you feel better. The ‘therapeutic’  doses are a misnomer for us injured by benzos.

I hope you feel better!

[[Kh...]]

13 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Thanks for sharing, and best of luck. Hopefully those symptoms will reside sooner rather than later. 

Yea thanks. You know how it is…one always starts to question whether they ever will subside 😩

[[Kh...]]

3 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

@[Md...] I’m so sorry to hear about your crippling depression. I too am experiencing this.

If you decide to try an a/d, which Ashton says can be helpful, I would encourage you to 1st take a gene test. It will tell you exactly what is right for you. For example I am unable to metabolize SSRI’s or Remeron.

Also it might be prudent to start at an extremely low dose, a micro dose, then slowly build up until you feel better. The ‘therapeutic’  doses are a misnomer for us injured by benzos.

I hope you feel better!

Good advice thanks for that!

[[Md...]]

38 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

@[Md...] I’m so sorry to hear about your crippling depression. I too am experiencing this.

If you decide to try an a/d, which Ashton says can be helpful, I would encourage you to 1st take a gene test. It will tell you exactly what is right for you. For example I am unable to metabolize SSRI’s or Remeron.

Also it might be prudent to start at an extremely low dose, a micro dose, then slowly build up until you feel better. The ‘therapeutic’  doses are a misnomer for us injured by benzos.

I hope you feel better!

Thank you.

When you say “gene test”, are you referring to something like 23andMe?

If so, how would you go about using it to know what kind of antidepressants your body is compatible with?

Just wondering what the steps are.

Also, is there anything else you can use this test for? I believe I’ve heard of some people using for the MTHFR gene mutation.

Honestly don’t know much about either one those tests though.

Thanks.

[[Ma...]]

My dr ordered it from Genesight. It separates antidepressants , sedatives, mood stabilizers etc and lists geneotypes, phenotypes-whatever those are.

I’m sure it can be used for a lot of things, but I wouldn’t know.

It can honestly save you a lot of trial and error and prevent unnecessary side effects and save a lot of time.

It’s also covered by most insurance.

Luck!!

[[Hu...]]

A lot of SSRI's require: CYP2D6, CYP2C19. If your liver doesn't produces those enzymes, you'll be having a lot of side-effects.

But even when you score low that doesn't mean it's not working for you. Probably you succeed with a very small dose in that case. With SSRI's you can ignore the "minimum dose", the SERT occupancy doesn't rise that much with doubling the dose anyway. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Serum-levels-and-SERT-occupancies-after-administration-of-different-single-doses-of_tbl1_6835470

Most benzos without active metabolites require CYP3A4.

Also note that mirtazapine really is a different AD. The higher doses (15+) are for depression, lower than that is more sedating. I've never used more than 7.5 due to the immense weight gain that stuff causes for many. 

My depression was probably caused by the benzos itself. The despair set in after a few months on them. I still remember making a vlog in the first couple of months and I was all cheerfull and talkative. Not so much anymore, not since two years. I surely like doing my regular hobbies, but especially during IDW life looks pointless, painful, sobbing.

Edited February 23 by [Hu...]

[[Ka...]]

1 hour ago, [[H...] said:

Also note that mirtazapine really is a different AD. The higher doses (15+) are for depression, lower than that is more sedating. 

 @[Hu...] this info is important.
In the past, I have taken mirtazapine @ 15, 30 & 45mg. No longer on it.

But I had lots of chopping & changing of these different strengths over 2plus years. One doctor told me after himself prescribing the higher 30mg without proper explanation & I wasn’t sleeping “well that is due to 15mg (I was used to) being more sedating”. But until your post I’ve never seen this anywhere. It’s vital people are told the differences by the prescriber so that they fully understand. 

Edited February 23 by [Ka...]

[[...]]

Why take another chemical? Try to live first.

[[Hu...]]

12 minutes ago, [[K...] said:

 @[Hu...] this info is important.
In the past, I have taken mirtazapine @ 15, 30 & 45mg. No longer on it.

But I had lots of chopping & changing of these different strengths over 2plus years. One doctor told me after himself prescribing the higher 30mg without proper explanation & I wasn’t sleeping “well that is due to 15mg (I was used to) being more sedating”. But until your post I’ve never seen this anywhere. I was even told once to take 15mg & 30mg to make 45mg! Not the same as 45mg. It’s vital people are told the differences by the prescriber so that they fully understand. 

Quote

Low Dose vs.
However, at low doses (e.g. - 7.5 mg), mirtazapine has a higher affinity to (and thus preferentially blocks) the histamine-1 receptor, compared to the other 2 receptors. At higher doses, this antihistamine activity is offset by increased noradrenergic transmission, which reduces its sedating effects.

Mirtazapine <7.5 really makes you sleepy. Although the effect decreased for me after a few months. I did gain about a kg for every month I've been on it. Now like 7 or 8 kilo's. Not good. Already tapering it. 

For me it did work with tension headaches, but those came from lorazepam interdose withdrawal.

Edited February 23 by [Hu...]

[[Ka...]]

Thanks @[Hu...] I don’t think we have 7.5mg available in UK. But it is really good you’ve posted this info. 

[[Hu...]]

Just now, [[K...] said:

Thanks @[Hu...] I don’t think we have 7.5mg available in UK. But it is really good you’ve posted this info. 

I have a standard 15 mg tablet with a score in the middle. It's Sandoz. 

[[Ka...]]

@[Hu...] well that makes sense. I hope you are doing OK sorry & @[Md...] sorry to impose on this topic 
 

[[Hu...]]

2 minutes ago, [[K...] said:

@[Hu...] well that makes sense. I hope you are doing OK sorry & @[Md...] sorry to impose on this topic 
 

If the SSRI's or SNRI's are not an option he could always try remeron. Maybe the higher doses for depression won't cause as much weight gain. It also depends on your sex, age, activity level. But generally, weight gain is the worst side effect. The SSRI's have a lot more side effects like sexual ones, dry mouth, jaw clenching.

Edited February 23 by [Hu...]