Taper help asap

[[ca...]]

Hi,

i was reinstated at 40mg of Diazepam last week (10 days ago), and I already have a hard time sleeping and waking up with withdrawal symptoms. Not gonna lie. I am freaking out and now I don’t know what to do. I was splitting my doses 10-10-10-10 during the day. What do I do? I start feeling the full body akathisia as soon as I wake up, don’t sleep for more than 7 hours, etc. I am scared beyond belief. I know I’ll have to start tapering like.. now.. I need help and direction. Before the flagyl and Ativan (0,5mg-1mg/day), I never had that problem. What the hell is this mess I got myself into? Help..!!!!

I do not feel stabilized, but there are things that got better from my cold Turkey. I don’t have tinnitus anymore. No sound sensitivity and I have been able to sleep after not sleeping for over a month. However, I know I don’t have much time to start tapering as unless they up my dosage, I will not stabilize. I tried calling my doc, he’s unavailable and I am just super terrified.

[[Br...]]

Hello @[ca...] -  I'm sorry you aren't feeling supported by your doctor. Do you have the option of switching to a different doctor, or perhaps a nurse practitioner? (not sure where you're located.)

My impression is that you are kindled from previous tapers. (Kindling) In brief kindling is the theory that after starting and stopping a medication subsequent withdrawals can be more difficult. Withdrawal symptoms during subsequent withdrawals may be more severe than during the previous withdrawal.  As I understand it you also reinstated and it hasn't helped you stabilize.  It's no wonder you are feeling terrible.  Your CNS is really scrambling, including the fear center of your brain.

It sounds like you're preparing yourself to start tapering.  As you probably know already we typically suggest tapering with cuts of no more than 5-10% of your most recent dose every 14 days or as your symptoms allow.   The simplest way to make reductions is to make dry cuts of your pills.

What questions do you have?

 

[[ca...]]

Thanks so much for your answer. Knowing things would be harder this time, I would have never ever reinstated. I was promised a smooth taper. I feel like I am going to get through hell and I am not sure I am ready for this.

40mg of Diazepam? It’s gonna be a nightmare…. I don’t know where and how to find the strength to do this.

Is there an alternative molecule I can take that will help? Topiramate? Lamotrigine? Etc. I was indeed kindled. Several times. No doctors know what they are doing.
i am already in terror and haven’t even made a cut (I have, but 10%), just trying to start this taper as low as possible. I already don’t sleep much and I am still taking a full dose…

i am freaking out.

[[...]]

3 hours ago, [[c...] said:

Vielen Dank für Ihre Antwort. Da ich wusste, dass es dieses Mal schwieriger werden würde, hätte ich es nie wieder getan. Mir wurde eine glatte Verjüngung versprochen. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass ich durch die Hölle kommen werde, und ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob ich dafür bereit bin.

40 mg Diazepam? Es wird ein Albtraum sein…. Ich weiß nicht, wo und wie ich die Kraft dafür aufbringen soll.

Gibt es ein alternatives Molekül, das helfen kann? Topiramat? Lamotrigin? Usw. Ich war wirklich begeistert. Mehrmals. Kein Arzt weiß, was er tut.
Ich bin bereits in Panik und habe noch nicht einmal eine Reduzierung vorgenommen (ja, aber 10 %), sondern versuche nur, die Reduzierung so niedrig wie möglich anzusetzen. Ich schlafe ohnehin nicht viel und nehme immer noch die volle Dosis ...

ich dreh durch.

You can message me if you want to. Nearly the same Situation.

I am here.

[[Co...]]

Hi all,

Just to remind you of the community guidelines:

Quote

You may not use the PM (Personal Message) system for withdrawal or taper advice. PMs are primarily intended for moral support, fun, and distraction. Please post your taper plan or withdrawal questions and concerns to the Community forums for wider discussion and feedback. Please refer to Guidelines for Use of Direct Messaging System.

Thanks.

[[ca...]]

On 20/02/2024 at 21:40, [[B...] said:

Hello @[ca...] -  I'm sorry you aren't feeling supported by your doctor. Do you have the option of switching to a different doctor, or perhaps a nurse practitioner? (not sure where you're located.)

My impression is that you are kindled from previous tapers. (Kindling) In brief kindling is the theory that after starting and stopping a medication subsequent withdrawals can be more difficult. Withdrawal symptoms during subsequent withdrawals may be more severe than during the previous withdrawal.  As I understand it you also reinstated and it hasn't helped you stabilize.  It's no wonder you are feeling terrible.  Your CNS is really scrambling, including the fear center of your brain.

It sounds like you're preparing yourself to start tapering.  As you probably know already we typically suggest tapering with cuts of no more than 5-10% of your most recent dose every 14 days or as your symptoms allow.   The simplest way to make reductions is to make dry cuts of your pills.

What questions do you have?

Hi

i feel quite lost in what ‘stabilizing’ really means I think. Part of me is kind of hoping I won’t have any symptoms at all amymore, but the more I read, the more I understand that might not be the case. What do you think? The nice thing is that while I am on 40mg Valium (I know that’s a lot), I do have normal moments. I have moments I almost forget what is happening to me. I do have muscle aches and am more jumpy than what I used to be, but my question revolves mainly about when to start tapering. Again, I am in no rush, but I want to do things properly as I know I really messed up my nervous system with too many meds and a CT. I find myself blessed I have found a doctor that was ready to first, believe me, but is also really wanting to go slow for my taper (5-10% every few weeks and even wait depending on symptoms). My biggest fear is that I will wait too long to start tapering and will ruin my chances of getting better. Or that I will take a too strong amount for so long that I will end up with even more neurological issues? Does it make sense?

[[Co...]]

7 hours ago, [[c...] said:

i feel quite lost in what ‘stabilizing’ really means I think. Part of me is kind of hoping I won’t have any symptoms at all amymore, but the more I read, the more I understand that might not be the case.

In the context of benzodiazepine withdrawal, what we generally mean by 'stabilizing' is to get over the hump of our latest reduction to dose. After all, for the vast majority of our members, withdrawal is not pretty - some level of discomfort is pretty much a given. 'Stabilizing' is about allowing enough time between successive reductions to dose so that withdrawal symptoms do not accumulate to a level where they become unbearable.

[[ca...]]

1 hour ago, [[C...] said:

In the context of benzodiazepine withdrawal, what we generally mean by 'stabilizing' is to get over the hump of our latest reduction to dose. After all, for the vast majority of our members, withdrawal is not pretty - some level of discomfort is pretty much a given. 'Stabilizing' is about allowing enough time between successive reductions to dose so that withdrawal symptoms do not accumulate to a level where they become unbearable.

Hmm. I see. What about waking up feeling like sh*t but feeling mostly ‘ok’ the rest of the day? I know it won’t be pretty. I am quite terrified tbh. But I am having paradoxical symptoms on my Diazepam 40mg, so I am wondering if I should stay like this longer in the hope it stabilizes more , or start cutting 5%.

[[Co...]]

1 hour ago, [[c...] said:

Hmm. I see. What about waking up feeling like sh*t but feeling mostly ‘ok’ the rest of the day? I know it won’t be pretty. I am quite terrified tbh. But I am having paradoxical symptoms on my Diazepam 40mg, so I am wondering if I should stay like this longer in the hope it stabilizes more , or start cutting 5%.

I can only suggest that you test it out. Make a small reduction to your dose and see how you go. And then make a new reduction only when you feel ready. It is inexact, there is variability in how people react, and in what they can personally tolerate (given their general health, other stressors, life situation, etc.).

[[ca...]]

On 22/02/2024 at 09:59, [[C...] said:

I can only suggest that you test it out. Make a small reduction to your dose and see how you go. And then make a new reduction only when you feel ready. It is inexact, there is variability in how people react, and in what they can personally tolerate (given their general health, other stressors, life situation, etc.).

Would another solution be to be switched to another molecule with less potential for suicidal ideations? I realize how better I feel if I don’t take the pills. I know it’s gonna be short lasting as I will go in w/d again, and all my cold turkey will come back, but Valium really gives me paradoxical reactions. Ativan didn’t give that to me but it’s so short lasting…

[[ca...]]

Just now, [[c...] said:

Would another solution be to be switched to another molecule with less potential for suicidal ideations? I realize how better I feel if I don’t take the pills. I know it’s gonna be short lasting as I will go in w/d again, and all my cold turkey will come back, but Valium really gives me paradoxical reactions. Ativan didn’t give that to me but it’s so short lasting…

I also must say that I am tempted to do a very quick taper but then, what was the point of reinstating? I know we don’t know and I can’t be upset at myself for trying it. It really did alleviate all of my CT symptoms, I am very blessed for that. But the suicidal thoughts after each doses is pretty awful and I don’t want to end up jumping off from a bridge.

[[Co...]]

39 minutes ago, [[c...] said:

Would another solution be to be switched to another molecule with less potential for suicidal ideations? I realize how better I feel if I don’t take the pills. I know it’s gonna be short lasting as I will go in w/d again, and all my cold turkey will come back, but Valium really gives me paradoxical reactions. Ativan didn’t give that to me but it’s so short lasting…

36 minutes ago, [[c...] said:

I also must say that I am tempted to do a very quick taper but then, what was the point of reinstating? I know we don’t know and I can’t be upset at myself for trying it. It really did alleviate all of my CT symptoms, I am very blessed for that. But the suicidal thoughts after each doses is pretty awful and I don’t want to end up jumping off from a bridge.

Hello @[ca...]

There is research which supports increased suicidality with use of benzodiazepines. But as far as I am aware, diazepam being worse than other benzodiazepines is more anecdotal in nature. I believe the earliest research (more accurately, case studies) on this matter was into diazepam - this might be from where the suggestion that diazepam is worse than other benzodiazepines arises. But, it seems, it is just that diazepam was the subject of the earliest study. I cannot say if you will improve by switching to, say, clonazepam or another benzodiazepine. But it probably would extend your taper, at least a little.

https://www.benzo.org.uk/diazepam.htm

https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/prescribed-benzodiazepines-and-suicide-risk/

I suggest that you talk with your doctor about you feel. And if these feelings are anything more than completely manageable, fleeting thoughts, I urge you to talk with your doctor.