Valium VS Klonopin

[[Md...]]

Is there anyone here who has been on both? I’m curious as to what your experience was like between the two.

If not, I'm still curious as to what the general consensus might be regarding the two, including pre, during, and post taper.

I mainly ask, because i have been on Valium for several months and feel like a zombie on it. The cossover from X to V was pretty brutal when it came to depression, which i never experienced on the X, but did develop ID withdrawals, so i made the switch. A lot of the depression faded over time, but the lethargy and brain fog at times is making me not as functional as I’d like to be. 

I’ve also been tapering for the last couple of months, and even though my symptoms haven’t been pure agony or anything, i still find myself ridiculously sedated, brain fogged and have bouts of depression, but again, i was experiencing these side fx from V before i even started tapering. You’d think that at least the sedation would settle down a little bit since I’m not taking as much, but that just hasn’t been the case. Maybe the taper is making it even worse, hard to tell. 

Due to this, I’ve been thinking about switching to Klonopin. Worth trying, or big mistake?

@[je...] I know you were on K and tapered off of it, so perhaps you could provide some insight as to what your personal experience being on K was like. 

Thanks!

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[Md...].  My two cents is that it would be ill-advised to switch from diazepam to clonazepam.  I doubt that resolves your symptoms, and it also brings the possibility of making things worse.  In addition, diazepam is the gold standard for tapering due to the 'forgiveness' associated with the benzo (i.e., low potency and extremely long half-life).

It sounds as if you have a decent degree of 'functionality'.  I don't know the rate at which you are tapering, but if you make small enough reductions in dose on a gradual enough schedule - the associated symptoms from your taper should be manageable.  When in doubt... hold.

[[je...]]

Hi @[Md...]

As you probably know I don't have experience with Valium. But I can share my experience on K. Although everyone has differences on K as well. I will speak to the symptoms that you list in your post. Brain fog on K has been brutal for me since the start. You will see that in the history of my posts. It has also been one of my most persistent symptoms. One year off and it's now starting to feel like it's lifting a bit. When it comes to lethargy, I never noticed it during withdrawal, but it's very prevalent during post withdrawal. It might be that it was present during withdrawal but it was overshadowed by other symptoms. Even though I was functional, I did the bare minimum. The rest of the time I spent on the couch because I felt too sick. If I didn't need to do anything, I didn't do it. I only did work, chores, helped the kids and attended functions that were required. Now that I'm not feeling sick all the time and not spending all my time on the couch, I feel a lot of lethargy. I need an immense amount of motivation to get anything done. 

Depression. During withdrawal I had depression come and go. I'm not sure whether it was chemically induced or whether it was just depression due to my withdrawal circumstances. Now that I'm off, I get times where I feel depressed. To me there's a difference between depression and feeling depressed. I think all people in life have times where they feel depressed. I don't think it means it is depression.

Sedation. I never felt sedated on K during the day. I dosed once a day at night. I am tired most of the time, and I have been tired throughout my taper because my sleep is really bad, but I don't feel sedated.

In your situation I think if you swap and it works, the biggest change you might see is in the sedation. I'm not sure if you'll notice a remarkable difference in any of the other symptoms. Ultimately you'll have to decide whether the intensity of the sedation is worth the risk for you. 

[[Md...]]

46 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Hi @[Md...]

As you probably know I don't have experience with Valium. But I can share my experience on K. Although everyone has differences on K as well. I will speak to the symptoms that you list in your post. Brain fog on K has been brutal for me since the start. You will see that in the history of my posts. It has also been one of my most persistent symptoms. One year off and it's now starting to feel like it's lifting a bit. When it comes to lethargy, I never noticed it during withdrawal, but it's very prevalent during post withdrawal. It might be that it was present during withdrawal but it was overshadowed by other symptoms. Even though I was functional, I did the bare minimum. The rest of the time I spent on the couch because I felt too sick. If I didn't need to do anything, I didn't do it. I only did work, chores, helped the kids and attended functions that were required. Now that I'm not feeling sick all the time and not spending all my time on the couch, I feel a lot of lethargy. I need an immense amount of motivation to get anything done. 

Depression. During withdrawal I had depression come and go. I'm not sure whether it was chemically induced or whether it was just depression due to my withdrawal circumstances. Now that I'm off, I get times where I feel depressed. To me there's a difference between depression and feeling depressed. I think all people in life have times where they feel depressed. I don't think it means it is depression.

Sedation. I never felt sedated on K during the day. I dosed once a day at night. I am tired most of the time, and I have been tired throughout my taper because my sleep is really bad, but I don't feel sedated.

In your situation I think if you swap and it works, the biggest change you might see is in the sedation. I'm not sure if you'll notice a remarkable difference in any of the other symptoms. Ultimately you'll have to decide whether the intensity of the sedation is worth the risk for you. 

Thank you very for sharing that. I sincerely appreciate it.

That being said, there might be another component to my situation that i didn’t think of until recently. I started a new thread about it, and was wondering what your thoughts might be, if you have the time to share them (or anyone else who might be able to provide some insight for that matter).

Thanks again.
 

 

Edited February 14 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

Re: switching to clonazepam …

Here’s another factor to consider, @[Md...]. In the US, the lowest dose clonazepam tablet available is a 0.125mg ODT (Orally Disintegrating Tablet). An oral clonazepam solution is not available.  

Clonazepam is a potent benzodiazepine so making small enough reductions in dose with the limited dosage forms and strengths available can be challenging.

Options include using a professionally compounded suspension (a stability tested formulation is available) or resorting to do-it-yourself manipulations (e.g. pill splitting, pill shaving/weighing, pill powder/weighing, or making a liquid using tablets plus a commercial suspending vehicle, milk or water). 

PS Tip of the hat for checking for interactions between the diazepam and oxcarbazepine.  You may be onto something there. Are you taking any other medications or substances that cause CNS depression?

[[Md...]]

12 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Re: switching to clonazepam …

Here’s another factor to consider, @[Md...]. In the US, the lowest dose clonazepam tablet available is a 0.125mg ODT (Orally Disintegrating Tablet). An oral clonazepam solution is not available.  

Clonazepam is a potent benzodiazepine so making small enough reductions in dose with the limited dosage forms and strengths available can be challenging.

Options include using a professionally compounded suspension (a stability tested formulation is available) or resorting to do-it-yourself manipulations (e.g. pill splitting, pill shaving/weighing, pill powder/weighing, or making a liquid using tablets plus a commercial suspending vehicle, milk or water). 

PS Tip of the hat for checking for interactions between the diazepam and oxcarbazepine.  You may be onto something there. Are you taking any other medications or substances that cause CNS depression?

Very valid points. Thank you.

As far as other substances go, the only other substance I regularly take is Magnesium Glycinate, however I’ve been taking this for a pretty long time now, and never noticed any kind of difference, aside from my sleep improving (since i only take it at night before bed). I’d say it’s been pretty helpful for me overall, but with the addition of Oxcarb there could just be too much CNS suppression going on.

For the first time in a long time i did have some caffeine today, and have felt much better than i have been lately (more energy, and mental clarity), even though I still feel pretty tired. 

I think i might just hold my benzo dose, while i taper of the Oxcarb, and see if things improve. Again, I’m at a pretty low oxcarb dose, so I’m hoping it doesn’t flare up any kind of Benzo withdrawal symptoms once it’s finally out of my system.

 

Edited February 14 by [Md...]

[[je...]]

53 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Thank you very for sharing that. I sincerely appreciate it.

That being said, there might be another component to my situation that i didn’t think of until recently. I started a new thread about it, and was wondering what your thoughts might be, if you have the time to share them (or anyone else who might be able to provide some insight for that matter).

Thanks again.
 

It could be a contributing factor. What was this med prescribed for?

[[Md...]]

3 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

It could be a contributing factor. What was this med prescribed for?

Atypical Facial Pain (an umbrella term for facial neuropathy that occured after dental work). The whole reason i got on benzos to begin with, unfortunately. 

[[je...]]

Ah, okay, cause I see it's used to control seizures. If it's not an essential medication then it's probably better to try and taper it first to see how/if it affects the Valium before considering a switch to K. 

[[Md...]]

4 minutes ago, [[j...] said:

Ah, okay, cause I see it's used to control seizures. If it's not an essential medication then it's probably better to try and taper it first to see how/if it affects the Valium before considering a switch to K. 

Yeah, exactly. It’s an anti seizure med, but as you probably already know, they are often prescribed for different types of neuropathy.

But since my pain has been at very low levels lately (many times, completely non-existent), I don’t think Oxcarb is essential to be taking right now. Perhaps I’ll revisit this medication later down the road if need be, but for right now i think i’ll start tapering off of it, as it may be causing the excess fatigue, brain fog, mental impairment, etc, which are all very common side effects of the drug to begin with.

I’m honestly not sure why i didn’t even think about it in the first place. 🤷‍♂️

[[kn...]]

I took pretty large doses of both clonazepam and lorazepam for decades.  My cross over to diazepam started at 60mgs.  My tapering history is not a model for anyone, but I've made fair progress in the last 2.5 years.  I'm now at 4mg of diazepam and not going anywhere until I see my new practitioner  and obtained an Rx for the oral solution.  I can concur that chronic fatigue has accompanied me all the way down.  I can't stand for more than 15-30 minutes at a time.  I sleep well at night, but wake up just as exhausted as when I went to bed.  I generally can't stay up more that 2-3 hours before I lye down and rest.  I can't sleep during these times, but I meditate under the  covers and get warmed up.  Going through the chills off and on now for months. 

[[Md...]]

19 minutes ago, [[k...] said:

I took pretty large doses of both clonazepam and lorazepam for decades.  My cross over to diazepam started at 60mgs.  My tapering history is not a model for anyone, but I've made fair progress in the last 2.5 years.  I'm now at 4mg of diazepam and not going anywhere until I see my new practitioner  and obtained an Rx for the oral solution.  I can concur that chronic fatigue has accompanied me all the way down.  I can't stand for more than 15-30 minutes at a time.  I sleep well at night, but wake up just as exhausted as when I went to bed.  I generally can't stay up more that 2-3 hours before I lye down and rest.  I can't sleep during these times, but I meditate under the  covers and get warmed up.  Going through the chills off and on now for months. 

Thank you for sharing your perspective, and best of luck to you and your healing journey.