CT or taper of short-term Zolpiclone (Lunesta)? Switch to Ambien?

[[...]]

As asking in the title: Would it be best to taper Zolpiclone, or to switch to Zolpidem and then taper that one? 7,5 mg Zolpiclone. And I have 10 mg Zolpidem/Ambien. So "just" the low doses, but I don't like these meds and would very much like to avoid taking them longterm.

Backstory: Out of the blue I got, and have, some kind of very bad stomach issues which made it extremely difficult to eat and my upper stomach was very painful (all tests negative, and infection level normal. But I am now suspecting bad GERD, which apparantly none of the doctors thought of. Testing underway for stomach ulcer too).

Somehow it spiralled into muscle twitches, muscle spasms, huge chills, and palpitations lasting hours. Extreme sound sensitivity. And I would pace my home for hours, feeling only relief when walking. And then actual anxiety/panic attacks. I truly don't know what is the chicken and what is the egg. I think that maybe I had low-key anxiety before and it brought it out. It is the muscle spasms and chills which keep me awake, not anxiety (unless they themselves are anxiety, who knows).

During the day the twitches are just sort of annoying, but not too bad. But at night they became worse with full limb spasms and full body chills, and they prevented me completely from sleeping. 0% sleep. I was going mad.

I was then given Zolpidem/Ambien. And then Zolpiclone because I was only out/sleeping 3 hours on Ambien.

I pretty much crash coursed in how to accept strange body symptoms so they didn't cause me anxiety. Which means I am now back to stomach issues, muscle spasms, and sleep being the main issues.

I have now been on them for uh, Ambien for 10 days and Zolpiclone for 8 days. I hate every pill I take, but they relax the muscle spasms so I can sleep for at least 5 hours, then most days I have woken up, but also some days been able to sleep/dose of some after. 

I feel it has become better for the last few days. Maybe the muscle spasms is related to not eating and not sleeping. A bad spiral l. And both have become better. I do feel slightly better, although it could just be from actually getting sleep. I am very fatigued and in the morning and I feel the worst in the morning. From mid-afternoon and until night I often feel better or even compellingly completely fine. 

I really want to stop again or at least lower the dose to see if the issue is gone.

Oh, and the doctors (family clinic) seemed pretty unconcerned with my muscle spasms. I initially thought I didn't explain them right, but it seems that they thought it was just a weird symptom and probably anxiety. 

I am new to this forum. Please let me know if I broke any rules or omitted something I should have included.

Edited February 18 by [...]
Edited title to reflect content

[[PE...]]

Why switching? They work almost the same. Both are short acting also.. 

Have you taking zop on days also? If not you might be ok from wd as it have time to leave the system between doses.

I wd many times from zop and insomnia was the only symptom. But bad..

[[PE...]]

Welcome to benzobuddies. 

I don't really get your background, have you done benzos before you were subscribed zdrugs-zop/ambien?

[[...]]

On 12/02/2024 at 21:56, [[n...] said:

Why switching? They work almost the same. Both are short acting also.. 

Have you taking zop on days also? If not you might be ok from wd as it have time to leave the system between doses.

I wd many times from zop and insomnia was the only symptom. But bad..

No, night only.

And I thought that since Ambien is shorter acting, it was "milder". It is not.

I have never gotten benzos before. 

Can I just cold turkey the Zolpiclone? Since it seems to be what I am doing each day, so to speak.

 

Edited February 17 by [...]
Adding about Ambien

[[PE...]]

Edited February 17 by Guest

[[Pa...]]

Am I to understand @[...] that you've only used the Zopiclone and Ambien for less than two weeks total and you've never used a z-drug or benzodiazepine before? 

[[...]]

3 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Am I to understand @[...] that you've only used the Zopiclone and Ambien for less than two weeks total and you've never used a z-drug or benzodiazepine before? 

Almost four weeks (26 days), with a few days where I tried not taking it and didn't sleep. I know it is nothing, but my life is falling apart. Probably a mix of the insomnia that maybe caused the muscle spasms (or it is a separate symptom with unknown origin). Of taking Zs. Of breakthrough heavy anxiety - new to me.  And of - recently realised - Having tapered off Citalopram, down to 1.25 mg, which might also be the cause of this misery.

And yes, no other Zs or benzoes.

I am terrified of not sleeping like I also wasn't in the days leading up to the first Rx. And terrified of the painful muscles cramps and electrical jolts that caused the insomnia, or rather inability to fall and stay asleep.

But I don't actually sleep that well on Zolpiclone. It feels like a few hours of being knocked out, not sleeping. And then I always wake up suddenly after that handful of hours, feel horribly depressed/panicked, even s. last morning. After a while of that, I come down and have a few crappy hours of constantly interupted sleep, but it also feels better than nothing.

And I feel so off during the day. And sooo tired and just not me. Can't tell if it is the lack of proper sleep, anxiety, or withdrawal. And then in the evening I am sort of ok. 

If not for the muscle spasms and electrical jolts, I would have stopped the Z right away. By now I can't tell what is cause and what is effect. 

2. Now I understand what terrible drugs benzoes (also these non-benzoes) are, and I know that the longer I stay on them, the harder it will be to get off. 

1 have tried searching (a lot) if I should taper at all when having only taken them for such a short while. I haven't found much about that.

Edited February 17 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

Thank you for further explaining your situation and I'm sorry those awful symptoms led you to take these medications.  

I know the fear of insomnia and I know you're in distress but as you've ascertained, these medications have not and will not make your situation better so I feel its the right time to discontinue them.  We hope those who have only been on the drug a short time will do a rapid taper, this is to prevent even more dependence from building.  It can be painful but you're right, the longer you stay on the zopiclone or Ambien, the more difficult it will be to taper and eventually recover.  We're talking possibly weeks and months now, versus  months and years if you continue. 

Would you be interested in talking about a rapid taper?

 

[[...]]

Yes please, how to do a rapid taper?

[[PE...]]

[[Pa...]]

[[...]]

3 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Perfect, what is your dose of Zopiclone and your dose of Ambien and what time do you take them?   Also, what are the pill sizes?

I only take Zolpiclone, and I take 3/4 of a 7.5 mg pill. I started on 1 pill but felt so drowsy in the morning that I reduced 3-4 days ago (not knowing anything about how to).

So 5.625 g though not likely that precise as I use a pill splitter. The pill has a mid split.

I take them at night at about 23:30 (I get up at 7:00). 

Edited February 18 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

How do you feel since you reduced 25% of your dose @[...]? 

[[...]]

I don't think it feels that different. The knockout/"sleep" onset feels less like a hammer. I think I have the first wakeup at about 3 AM instead of 4 AM (I try not to look at the clock).

First day didn't feel different.

Seond day I had panic and some really dark thoughts about d.ing, when I woke up the first time. But then it wore off and I had some calmish broken sleep.

Third day (to today) the two wakeups I had, felt ok. I had to get up at 7 AM, and didn't feel the dread and emptiness, that I have done the other mornings. I definitely don't feel like myself, I feel like my brain works at low capacity. I feel weak, and have chills, but I went to a social thing and it was ok. Had tremors at some point, seemed like anxiety. And sound sensitivity. But still better than before. 
 

Edited February 18 by [...]

[[...]]

 

Oh! Something very important that I only realised a few days ago (and which my doctor should have clocked 😠). I had been tapering off from Citalopram for half a year, from 10 mg to 1.25 mg sometime in December.

I am almost sure now that my symptoms are withdrawal from that! It comes together and makes sense. And it fits with symptom onset January 16th.

Realising that I had unknowingly become way more depressed during the taper, I increased to 2.5...uh, 2 1/2 weeks ago. It was before I linked my physical symptoms to SSRI withdrawal symptoms. And then to 5 mg three days ago.

Today I pushed the time I take them from 11 AM to 6 PM (I used to take them before bed because they make me drowsy. But when starting to reinstate I chose 11 AM, to not take them together).

And lo and behold, first I got the "dizziness in my teeth" that had always been a sign that I forgot a dose. And at about 5:30 PM I started to have those painful nerve twinges, that has been one of the things keeping me awake!!!

Which makes me even more sure that the whole deal with the original symptoms is SSRI withdrawal. I am ok with taking them again, and am going to reinstate at original dose. 

 

Edited February 18 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

Oh my goodness @[...], this is important indeed and changes how we need to approach things!  So, you plan to go back to your original dose of Citalopram?  What are your plans for the Zopiclone after that?

[[...]]

Back to 10 mg Citalopram, yes. And judging ny how well reinstating is going, I think it is going to be a quick reinstatement. I did 5 mg and a fragment (1/8-ish) today.

I want off Zolpiclone as fast as possible. I only needed it for the muscle spasms, and if reinstating takes care of that, I don't need them.  I am capable of falling asleep on my own, it is the muscle spasms that have kept me awake.

In any case I don't think my doctor is going to let me have any more than one or a few refills (of 14). My country is extremely strict with benzos. And I know +4-6 weeks is when you start getting physically addicted, and I want to avoid going there. 

 

Edited February 18 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

I'm so happy for you @[...], I hope the reinstatement goes well and you can get off of the Zopiclone without too much difficulty. 

Speaking of Zopiclone, its my belief its one of the worst z-drugs in terms of its similarities to benzodiazepines extremely unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.  I've watched more members suffer with its discontinuation than the other z-drugs.  I don't typically like to hear members are looking to get off of these drugs ASAP, but in your case, I think you're right on the money. 

[[...]]

How ASAP do you think is fine? Don't worry, I am not going to hold you up on it, I know it is individual and my responsibility. But I don't really myself have any sense of what "fast" is.

 

Edited February 18 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

Depending on how you feel after you complete your reinstatement of Citalopram, you might try another 25% reduction, if that proves to be too much, then you could make a smaller one next time.  A rapid taper is like any other one, using your symptoms to guide your decisions of when and how much is useful and very individual.