Eliminating one dose at a time VS all via daily microtaper

[[Md...]]

Currently taking Valium 3 times a day, and was wondering if there’s an advantage doing a hyperbolic/daily microtaper VS knocking out one dose completely at a time. 

I ask because it would be great if i didn’t have to take Valium in the morning and in the afternoon, but only at night, then that could be my final dose i taper off of, but not sure if there’s any downsides to this?

[[Li...]]

Hello @[Md...].

Let’s make sure we understand your current taper schedule and question.  I also have a question for you.

 

(1) Is this the taper schedule you are currently using?

You are taking 3 doses a day.  You are making daily micro reductions in these doses on a rotating basis.  For example: on Day 1, you reduce your morning dose, while holding the midday and evening doses constant; on Day 2, you reduce your midday dose, while holding the morning and evening doses constant; on Day 3, you reduce your evening dose while holding the morning and midday doses constant. On Days 4 - 6, you repeat this pattern of alternating reductions. Rinse and repeat.

(2) Is this your question? 

You are asking if there might be an advantage (one assumes, you are also interested in exploring disadvantages) to switching from the above taper schedule to one more akin to those used by Professor Ashton.  For example, tapering the midday dose to 0 (one assumes by making daily micro reductions) while holding the morning and evening doses constant.  Next, tapering the morning dose to 0 (again, one assumes via daily micro reductions).  At this point you would be dosing 1 time a day in the evening. You would then taper the remaining evening dose to 0.

(3) My question for you is: Would you please help us understand what you mean by ‘hyperbolic/daily microtaper’?  Do you mean you are making hyperbolic reductions* in dose on a daily basis?

*My current understanding is that hyperbolic tapering involves decreasing the total daily dose of a drug by amounts that reduce its effect on target receptors in a linear fashion; reductions become smaller and smaller as the total dose gets lower, informed by the drug’s hyperbolic dose-receptor occupancy curve. 

 

[[Mi...]]

@[Md...],

Hi there,

I’m sort of in a similar situation you are in right now, so I thought I would comment. I believe (was taught basically) that it’s best to come off by keeping an even dosing schedule throughout the day. I was going through some pretty bad interdose withdrawals and what not though. I’m currently doing a micro taper (not hyperbolic) and reducing a little from one of each doses every day. It’s helped me greatly. I’m currently dosing 3 times a day on Valium, such as yourself.

So, to answer your question, no. I do not believe (from experience) that it would be better to switch that to one dose at night.

Consistency is key for your nervous system in this process. That is a definite truth.

Edited February 11 by [Mi...]

[[Md...]]

6 hours ago, [[L...] said:

Hello @[Md...].

Let’s make sure we understand your current taper schedule and question.  I also have a question for you.

(1) Is this the taper schedule you are currently using?

You are taking 3 doses a day.  You are making daily micro reductions in these doses on a rotating basis.  For example: on Day 1, you reduce your morning dose, while holding the midday and evening doses constant; on Day 2, you reduce your midday dose, while holding the morning and evening doses constant; on Day 3, you reduce your evening dose while holding the morning and midday doses constant. On Days 4 - 6, you repeat this pattern of alternating reductions. Rinse and repeat.

(2) Is this your question? 

You are asking if there might be an advantage (one assumes, you are also interested in exploring disadvantages) to switching from the above taper schedule to one more akin to those used by Professor Ashton.  For example, tapering the midday dose to 0 (one assumes by making daily micro reductions) while holding the morning and evening doses constant.  Next, tapering the morning dose to 0 (again, one assumes via daily micro reductions).  At this point you would be dosing 1 time a day in the evening. You would then taper the remaining evening dose to 0.

(3) My question for you is: Would you please help us understand what you mean by ‘hyperbolic/daily microtaper’?  Do you mean you are making hyperbolic reductions* in dose on a daily basis?

*My current understanding is that hyperbolic tapering involves decreasing the total daily dose of a drug by amounts that reduce its effect on target receptors in a linear fashion; reductions become smaller and smaller as the total dose gets lower, informed by the drug’s hyperbolic dose-receptor occupancy curve. 

Currently dosing 3 times a day, and make small reductions everyday, so for example…

Day 1:

morning dose: .99ml

afternoon dose 1ml

night dose 1ml

Day 2:

morning dose: .99ml

afternoon dose .99ml

night dose: 1ml

Day 3:

morning dose: .99ml

afternoon dose: .99ml

night dose: .99ml

And so on and so forth, basically decreasing each day in an exponential method.

So my question is, why not just leave the afternoon and night doses the same, until I completely eliminate the morning dose? (If that makes sense)

But it seems like from what im being told that being consistent with every dose is supposedly easier on the CNS.

Edited February 11 by [Md...]

[[Md...]]

6 hours ago, [[M...] said:

@[Md...],

Hi there,

I’m sort of in a similar situation you are in right now, so I thought I would comment. I believe (was taught basically) that it’s best to come off by keeping an even dosing schedule throughout the day. I was going through some pretty bad interdose withdrawals and what not though. I’m currently doing a micro taper (not hyperbolic) and reducing a little from one of each doses every day. It’s helped me greatly. I’m currently dosing 3 times a day on Valium, such as yourself.

So, to answer your question, no. I do not believe (from experience) that it would be better to switch that to one dose at night.

Consistency is key for your nervous system in this process. That is a definite truth.

Thanks for the feedback. Did you get on Valium to eliminate the interdose withdrawals? I was on Xanax and also developed ID withdrawals. The Valium eliminated them, but the Valium also causes moments of just too much fatigue, brain fog, and depression.

Then again, i am tapering, so maybe some of those symptoms are being amplified from that. Hard to tell, tbh. 

[[Mi...]]

@[Md...]

The Valium took care of the ID withdrawals, yes. Luckily I have yet to experience any of those other symptoms (as of recent), but I am on a higher dose than you right now (about 11mgs). I’m months away from being around 5. Getting there nice and steady now.

Side note: Beef liver gives me a boost of energy. You should look into it.

Edited February 11 by [Mi...]

[[Li...]]

 

Thank you for confirming the taper schedule you are using, @[Md...]

What you’ve described is a linear taper that reduces your dose by 0.01mL a day or 0.3mLs every 30 days.  This means your monthly taper rate will increase over time. For example:

3mL    -> 2.7mL = a 10% reduction for month 1
2.7mL -> 2.4mL = a 11.11% reduction for month 2
2.4mL -> 2.1mL = a 12.5% reduction for month 3

I suspect you are doing a response-guided taper. If your symptoms begin to ramp up as your taper rate increases, my hunch is your prescriber plans to adjust the concentration of the liquid to address this.

Re: your question about tapering the morning dose first …

I don’t have personal experience tapering diazepam but I’ve read here and elsewhere that many individuals only need to dose it once or twice a day due to its long-half life.  I know we have at least two currently active members who dose diazepam once a day so I hope they’ll stop by to share their experiences.

If you do decide to try decreasing the number of times a day you dose, I suggest you consider targeting the midday dose rather than the morning dose.  That way the time between your doses (12 hours) will remain even and the concentration of the blood in your system will remain steady.  

 

[[Md...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

@[Md...]

The Valium took care of the ID withdrawals, yes. Luckily I have yet to experience any of those other symptoms (as of recent), but I am on a higher dose than you right now (about 11mgs). I’m months away from being around 5. Getting there nice and steady now.

Side note: Beef liver gives me a boost of energy. You should look into it.

Oh, im actually tapering down from 30mg of V, and am two months into a 19 month long taper. But those symptoms were present with V before i even started tapering. I think it’s just how my body responds to the drug in general. I’ve always been a lightweight, so I’m not surprised it hit me as hard as it does. 
 

Thanks again for your feedback 👍

[[Md...]]

14 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Thank you for confirming the taper schedule you are using, @[Md...]

What you’ve described is a linear taper that reduces your dose by 0.01mL a day or 0.3mLs every 30 days.  This means your monthly taper rate will increase over time. For example:

3mL    -> 2.7mL = a 10% reduction for month 1
2.7mL -> 2.4mL = a 11.11% reduction for month 2
2.4mL -> 2.1mL = a 12.5% reduction for month 3

I suspect you are doing a response-guided taper. If your symptoms begin to ramp up as your taper rate increases, my hunch is your prescriber plans to adjust the concentration of the liquid to address this.

Re: your question about tapering the morning dose first …

I don’t have personal experience tapering diazepam but I’ve read here and elsewhere that many individuals only need to dose it once or twice a day due to its long-half life.  I know we have at least two currently active members who dose diazepam once a day so I hope they’ll stop by to share their experiences.

If you do decide to try decreasing the number of times a day you dose, I suggest you consider targeting the midday dose rather than the morning dose.  That way the time between your doses (12 hours) will remain even and the concentration of the blood in your system will remain steady.  

Thanks for your reply.

I’m not sure I understand the math, tbh, and how the taper rate increases over time, then again, math is not my forte.

I started tapering at 30mg and was told it would be about a 5% reduction every 4 weeks. 

So if you take 30mg and divide it by 19 (19 reflects the amount of months to taper) you will get 1.5mg, and 5% of 30mg = 1.5, if that makes sense. 

Maybe I’m not doing the math right. 

Currently under the care of Dr Josef. Maybe there was a misunderstanding on my end.

[[Li...]]

No worries, @[Md...].  I was just going by the taper schedule you gave us in your post upthread.  I’m confident JWD would be happy to explain the math if you ask.  He also may have a reason for maintaining a thrice daily dosing schedule so, in your shoes, I’d ask about that as well. 

[[Md...]]

19 hours ago, [[L...] said:

No worries, @[Md...].  I was just going by the taper schedule you gave us in your post upthread.  I’m confident JWD would be happy to explain the math if you ask.  He also may have a reason for maintaining a thrice daily dosing schedule so, in your shoes, I’d ask about that as well. 

Just spoke to Dr Josef. He said the main reason for dosing 3 times a day is to prevent interdose withdrawals. 

[[Fa...]]

20 hours ago, [[L...] said:

I know we have at least two currently active members who dose diazepam once a day so I hope they’ll stop by to share their experiences.

Hi, @[Md...].  Sorry, I’m just reading this thread.  I believe I may be one of the members @[Li...] is referencing.

I dose my diazepam once daily at night.  It is much more convenient for me to do such, and I don’t have any issues between doses.

If/when you decide to eliminate a dose, I agree with @[Li...] - I would work towards eliminating the midday dose and keep two doses roughly 12 hours apart.

[[Li...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

Just spoke to Dr Josef. He said the main reason for dosing 3 times a day is to prevent interdose withdrawals. 

Thanks for checking and letting us know @[Md...].  I wonder if he’s especially concerned about interdose withdrawal (IWD) in your case given your history of extreme IWD when you were taking alprazolam.  As I shared upthread, we have members who only dose diazepam once or twice a day and do fine.  Of course, we also have had members who dose three or even four times a day.  As I’m sure you know, each of us is unique so each of us has to discover what works best for our particular case. 

[[Li...]]

1 minute ago, [[F...] said:

I believe I may be one of the members @[Li...] is referencing.

Guilty as charged, @[Fa...].   Thank you so much for stopping by to share your experience and offer input.   I’m sure @[Md...] appreciates it as do I.

[[Md...]]

On 11/02/2024 at 15:39, [[L...] said:

Thank you for confirming the taper schedule you are using, @[Md...]

What you’ve described is a linear taper that reduces your dose by 0.01mL a day or 0.3mLs every 30 days.  This means your monthly taper rate will increase over time. For example:

3mL    -> 2.7mL = a 10% reduction for month 1
2.7mL -> 2.4mL = a 11.11% reduction for month 2
2.4mL -> 2.1mL = a 12.5% reduction for month 3

I suspect you are doing a response-guided taper. If your symptoms begin to ramp up as your taper rate increases, my hunch is your prescriber plans to adjust the concentration of the liquid to address this.

Re: your question about tapering the morning dose first …

I don’t have personal experience tapering diazepam but I’ve read here and elsewhere that many individuals only need to dose it once or twice a day due to its long-half life.  I know we have at least two currently active members who dose diazepam once a day so I hope they’ll stop by to share their experiences.

If you do decide to try decreasing the number of times a day you dose, I suggest you consider targeting the midday dose rather than the morning dose.  That way the time between your doses (12 hours) will remain even and the concentration of the blood in your system will remain steady.  

Would it be OK if i PM’d you about this tapering schedule?

[[ns...]]

I've forgotten a dose, slept thru a dose and it sent me into misery for a week each time.

A schedule is best and to stay on the beginning taper schedule in my opinion. 

I was an hour and half late taking 5am dose this morning and having another bad day!

Yesterday an hour late because I forgot again.

Symptoms rev up at the slightest change in schedule!

My doses are so small idk why they do this to me. Considering a jump at this point but don't know if I can handle that either.

Wonder if it's too late to start valuim switch at such a low dose?

Any suggestions?

Ns

 

[[Md...]]

On 11/02/2024 at 15:39, [[L...] said:

Thank you for confirming the taper schedule you are using, @[Md...]

What you’ve described is a linear taper that reduces your dose by 0.01mL a day or 0.3mLs every 30 days.  This means your monthly taper rate will increase over time. For example:

3mL    -> 2.7mL = a 10% reduction for month 1
2.7mL -> 2.4mL = a 11.11% reduction for month 2
2.4mL -> 2.1mL = a 12.5% reduction for month 3

I suspect you are doing a response-guided taper. If your symptoms begin to ramp up as your taper rate increases, my hunch is your prescriber plans to adjust the concentration of the liquid to address this.

Re: your question about tapering the morning dose first …

I don’t have personal experience tapering diazepam but I’ve read here and elsewhere that many individuals only need to dose it once or twice a day due to its long-half life.  I know we have at least two currently active members who dose diazepam once a day so I hope they’ll stop by to share their experiences.

If you do decide to try decreasing the number of times a day you dose, I suggest you consider targeting the midday dose rather than the morning dose.  That way the time between your doses (12 hours) will remain even and the concentration of the blood in your system will remain steady.  

Thank you so much for explaining this math to me, however I was giving this math some thought and am a bit confused about the linear schedule, especially how my "monthly taper rate will increase over time".

So here's all the details, as well as what my benzo psych explained to me (at least how I understood it)...

I started at 30mg of Valium a day (10mg of Valium X 3 doses throughout the day). The goal was to make 5% cuts every 30 days, which would take 20 months to complete. This would be using liquid Diazepam, and a 1ml syringe. Each 1ml = 5mg, so the schedule looks like this...

Day 1:

1st dose = 1ml + 0.99

2nd dose: 2ml

3rd dose: 2ml

Day 2:

First dose: 1ml + 0.99

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.99

3rd dose:  2ml

Day 3: 

1st dose: 1ml + 0.99

2nd dose:  1ml + 0.99

3rd dose:  1ml + 0.99

Day 4

1st dose: 1ml + 0.98

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.99

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.99

Day 5

1st dose: 1ml + 0.98

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.98

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.99

Day 6

1st dose: 1ml + 0.98

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.98

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.98

Day 7

1st dose: 1ml + 0.97

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.98

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.98

 

Day 8

1st dose: 1ml + 0.97

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.97

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.98

 

Day 9

1st dose: 1ml + 0.97

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.97

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.97

 

Day 10

1st dose: 1ml + 0.96

2nd dose: 1ml + 0.97

3rd dose: 1ml + 0.97

 

 

And so on and so forth.

Here's a picture of the syringe below. Each line on the syringe represents a cut that corresponds to the daily schedule, and going from one decimal point (1ml to 0.9, or 0.9 to 0.8, for example) would take 30 days to complete. The 5% cuts every 30 days is based off the original dosage (30mg), and not 5% of the remainder of the pie.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

13 hours ago, [[M...] said:

The 5% cuts every 30 days is based off the original dosage (30mg), and not 5% of the remainder of the pie.

Rest assured, I understand your taper schedule and technique, @[Md...].  My original response still stands - making fixed amount reductions based on the original, prescribed dose will result in a linear taper. 

A linear reduction based on the original, prescribed dose results in reductions being a larger and larger proportion of the total dose you’re taking currently.  Over time, these larger decreases may become destabilizing and cause withdrawal symptoms.

An exponential reduction based on the dose at the start of each reduction sequence (e.g. the last dose every 4 weeks) results in reductions that are proportionate to the last dose (not the original dose) and keep getting smaller.  These smaller reductions are thought to be less destabilizing.

See figures below.  Text and images courtesy of: SurvivingAntidepressants

You may (or may not) be able to tolerate a linear taper.  Are you keeping a daily log rating your symptoms and functionality?  If your symptoms begin to increase and/or your functionality begins to decrease, your doctor may suggest that you dilute your liquid to achieve a lower concentration.  This would effectively decrease your taper rate.  You would continue to reduce by the same amount (0.01mL) but the dose ingested would be less because of the lower concentration.  He has a video about this on his YouTube channel titled “Easy Math for Liquid Micro Tapers!” (In your case you could dilute the manufacturer’s liquid yourself, no need to involve the compounding pharmacist.  Indeed, doing so might increase your costs because compounds that include water are subject to a 14-day beyond-use-date per the USP.

Alternatively, your doctor may suggest that you keep the concentration of your liquid the same and switch to an exponential taper or a hyperbolic per Horowitz and Taylor’s recently published book - The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines (see pages 404-411 for examples of fast, moderate, and slow tapering regimens for diazepam based on receptor occupancy).

Linear Reductions: The following shows a LINEAR taper reducing 10% of the starting dose every 4 weeks.

Exponential Reductions: The following shows an exponential taper of 10% calculated on the last dose every 4 weeks. This shows tapering from 100mg to 0mg, but the curve would be the same for any starting dose.

[[Md...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

Rest assured, I understand your taper schedule and technique, @[Md...].  My original response still stands - making fixed amount reductions based on the original, prescribed dose will result in a linear taper. 

A linear reduction based on the original, prescribed dose results in reductions being a larger and larger proportion of the total dose you’re taking currently.  Over time, these larger decreases may become destabilizing and cause withdrawal symptoms.

An exponential reduction based on the dose at the start of each reduction sequence (e.g. the last dose every 4 weeks) results in reductions that are proportionate to the last dose (not the original dose) and keep getting smaller.  These smaller reductions are thought to be less destabilizing.

See figures below.  Text and images courtesy of: SurvivingAntidepressants

You may (or may not) be able to tolerate a linear taper.  Are you keeping a daily log rating your symptoms and functionality?  If your symptoms begin to increase and/or your functionality begins to decrease, your doctor may suggest that you dilute your liquid to achieve a lower concentration.  This would effectively decrease your taper rate.  You would continue to reduce by the same amount (0.01mL) but the dose ingested would be less because of the lower concentration.  He has a video about this on his YouTube channel titled “Easy Math for Liquid Micro Tapers!” (In your case you could dilute the manufacturer’s liquid yourself, no need to involve the compounding pharmacist.  Indeed, doing so might increase your costs because compounds that include water are subject to a 14-day beyond-use-date per the USP.

Alternatively, your doctor may suggest that you keep the concentration of your liquid the same and switch to an exponential taper or a hyperbolic per Horowitz and Taylor’s recently published book - The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines (see pages 404-411 for examples of fast, moderate, and slow tapering regimens for diazepam based on receptor occupancy).

Linear Reductions: The following shows a LINEAR taper reducing 10% of the starting dose every 4 weeks.

Exponential Reductions: The following shows an exponential taper of 10% calculated on the last dose every 4 weeks. This shows tapering from 100mg to 0mg, but the curve would be the same for any starting dose.

Once again, thank you very much for this info!

To answer your question, I haven’t been keeping a daily journal of symptoms, because the symptoms really haven’t changed. Some days/moments are just better than others. It’s been consistently inconsistent, if that makes sense. The “bad” moments naturally freak me out at first, but then I remember that it’s not much different than it was before, and the next day (or even the next hour) i’ll feel like I’m at my baseline. So making a journal at this point would be like looking at the weather every week. Things seem to just ebb and flow, but not get significantly worse, and I haven’t had any new symptoms.

This “linear” schedule does seem to be a bit disconcerting though, because as you said, the longer i taper the more reductions will be taken. I’d much rather be on a schedule that stays consistent, instead of just waiting for things to possibly get worse.

The other problem i have is that I’ll have no idea what percentage I'm tapering every month as the rate consistently changes.

Edited March 10 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

You’re welcome, @[Md...].  

I strongly encourage you to begin keeping a daily taper log that includes a global rating for your symptoms (0 = no symptoms, 10 = intolerable symptoms) as well as one for your functionality (0 = able to perform all essential daily tasks without issues, 10 = unable able to perform any essential daily tasks).  If memory serves, you’re already keeping a paper log of your daily doses, so you could just add these two ratings to that.

Monitoring symptoms and functionality on a daily basis is key to a successful taper.  It’s the only way we have of knowing if our current taper rate/interval/technique is working or if we need to make adjustments. 

I also encourage you to generate and review line graphs of your symptom and  functionality data at least once a month. This will enable you to more easily identify patterns and trends in your data. 

Re: your question about how to calculate your taper rate on a monthly basis …

I’ve included a link to an easy-to-use online calculator below.  Simply enter your total daily dose at the start of the month in the top box and your total daily dose at the end of the month in the bottom box.  Then click the calculate button.

Percentage Change Calculator
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/percent-change-calculator.php

 

[[Md...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

You’re welcome, @[Md...].  

I strongly encourage you to begin keeping a daily taper log that includes a global rating for your symptoms (0 = no symptoms, 10 = intolerable symptoms) as well as one for your functionality (0 = able to perform all essential daily tasks without issues, 10 = unable able to perform any essential daily tasks).  If memory serves, you’re already keeping a paper log of your daily doses, so you could just add these two ratings to that.

Monitoring symptoms and functionality on a daily basis is key to a successful taper.  It’s the only way we have of knowing if our current taper rate/interval/technique is working or if we need to make adjustments. 

I also encourage you to generate and review line graphs of your symptom and  functionality data at least once a month. This will enable you to more easily identify patterns and trends in your data. 

Re: your question about how to calculate your taper rate on a monthly basis …

I’ve included a link to an easy-to-use online calculator below.  Simply enter your total daily dose at the start of the month in the top box and your total daily dose at the end of the month in the bottom box.  Then click the calculate button.

Percentage Change Calculator
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/percent-change-calculator.php

Thanks again. Your time and info is sincerely appreciated. 👍

[[Li...]]

Again, you’re welcome @[Md...].  

You’ve impressed me as someone who likes to understand both the ‘why’ and the ‘how’ of  benzodiazepine withdrawal and tapering. Have you considered purchasing a copy of The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines for Antidepressants, Benzodiazepines, Gabapentinoids, and Z-drugs (Horowitz & Taylor, 2024)?   You might find it of interest.

[[Md...]]

23 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Again, you’re welcome @[Md...].  

You’ve impressed me as someone who likes to understand both the ‘why’ and the ‘how’ of  benzodiazepine withdrawal and tapering. Have you considered purchasing a copy of The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines for Antidepressants, Benzodiazepines, Gabapentinoids, and Z-drugs (Horowitz & Taylor, 2024)?   You might find it of interest.

I just hate going into anything blindfolded and just “not knowing”. You can blame it on my over-analytical mind, which rarely does me any favors lol. 

I honestly haven’t heard of that book, so i will check it out. Thanks for the recommendation!

Math is also not my forte (science and music are). I’ve just never had a mind for math. I got a C in calculus and an A in physiology back in my college days, if that tells you anything.

Speaking of math, would an equation like this be accurate to find out what percentage I’m at each month?…

My starting dose was based on 6ml (two 1ml syringes taken 3 times a day), so each month there is a reduction of 0.3ml, so in order to find out the reduction percentage each month, I would divide 0.3 by 5.7ml to equal 5.2%? 5.2% being the reduction starting at month two. Hopefully that made sense. 

Btw, I did look at that calculator you linked, but I'm honestly not sure what numerical values I would enter. Even with a calculator my math brain is all 🤪

 

Edited March 10 by [Md...]

[[Li...]]

I suggest you use the calculator.  Enter 6 in the top box and 5.7 in the bottom box.  Then click the Calculate button.  The result is 5%.  

[[Md...]]

2 hours ago, [[L...] said:

I suggest you use the calculator.  Enter 6 in the top box and 5.7 in the bottom box.  Then click the Calculate button.  The result is 5%.  

Thanks! I see how the calculator works now, and the math adds up. It’s just subtracting .3 every month from the previous number, and that’s how i know what my tapering rate is. Crazy. 

So how exactly would you do a consistent 5% reduction every month?