Klonopin: how is the active ingredient distributed?

[[Ha...]]

I've been direct dry cutting klonopin and have more recently been plagued with this quandary...

Some people advise pill weight averaging. I.e, weigh 10 or more pills in order to determine the average weight of each pill in your prescription. This seems to support the following hypothesis: heavier pills have more active ingredient, lighter pills have less, because the % of active ingredient is evenly distributed in whatever big slurry these use to press these pills.

Am i understanding this correctly? Or, should i be subtracting 10% from each pill (i'm currently at .45mg daily, 7 months in). 

For those that liquid taper, it seems to me the operating assumption is that each pill contains the same amount of active ingredient, regardless of weight. Otherwise, there would be a need to understand the weight of each pill before it is suspended/dissolved in liquid.

I don't know. I am hurting and lost. Wish we didn't all have to become personal compound pharmacy technicians to get through this process.

Thanks for any thoughts or insights!

All of my love-

Hagibis

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[Ha...].  I don't have any experience with dry cutting/shaving and weighing, but I did want to respond to your post.  We have to make assumptions when we taper - regardless of strategy.  For your strategy, we are going to have to assume that the active ingredient is relatively equally distributed throughout the tablet.  Over time any discrepancies should average out with a longer-acting benzodiazepine like clonazepam.

From what I've read, the weight of 1 tablet should be around .170g.  If you wanted to weigh 10 tablets and take the average I believe that to be fine.  If you want to just make your calculations from .170, I believe that to be fine as well.  I would just advise staying consistent in your 'procedure'.  Consistency and confidence are the key with any taper strategy in my opinion.  Wish you the best!

[[Ha...]]

4 hours ago, [[F...] said:

Hi, @[Ha...].  I don't have any experience with dry cutting/shaving and weighing, but I did want to respond to your post.  We have to make assumptions when we taper - regardless of strategy.  For your strategy, we are going to have to assume that the active ingredient is relatively equally distributed throughout the tablet.  Over time any discrepancies should average out with a longer-acting benzodiazepine like clonazepam.

From what I've read, the weight of 1 tablet should be around .170g.  If you wanted to weigh 10 tablets and take the average I believe that to be fine.  If you want to just make your calculations from .170, I believe that to be fine as well.  I would just advise staying consistent in your 'procedure'.  Consistency and confidence are the key with any taper strategy in my opinion.  Wish you the best!

Appreciate the reply, @[Fa...] 

I have been very consistent in my procedure, and at first it seemed like it was working, but i have been absolutely rocked with a wave following meager 2.7% reduction. It's making me question everything. 

I avoided going the compounding route because i felt like it would give me less control over my taper, but now i'm starting to wonder if the only benefit of weighing myself is the perception of control/accuracy.

Possible I may have to make the switch to Valium at some point. I don't feel like i should be getting "stuck" at .45 mg kp when i tapering so, so slowly. Like, considerably slower than Ashton recommends.

[[je...]]

FWIW I hit a wave at 0.4mg K. I held for 6 weeks and felt much better. I switched to liquid and it was so much easier than dry tapering. I'm not saying it's more or less accurate but gosh if you can get it compounded the convenience of just using a syringe is great.

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[j...] said:

FWIW I hit a wave at 0.4mg K. I held for 6 weeks and felt much better. I switched to liquid and it was so much easier than dry tapering. I'm not saying it's more or less accurate but gosh if you can get it compounded the convenience of just using a syringe is great.

@[je...]You must be my twin, I hit a wave at 0.4 and held for 8 weeks then felt much better…lol.  
 

@[Ha...], @[Fa...] is right, the most important thing is to be consistent in your procedure.  Don’t worry about the weight of any one pill, it will even out over time.  Clonazepam has a long half life, so the difference between a pill weighing .171 and .170 is really miniscule.  I prefer dry cutting because I find it less tedious, even though it may not be as accurate in theory as a liquid taper.  I just found liquid tapering to have too many steps and got a little OCD about making mistakes.  Again, just pick a method and stick with it consistently.  

[[Fa...]]

@[Ha...], since it appears you will be holding to ‘stabilize’ and are questioning your strategy, you may consider looking into @[je...]’s suggestion while holding.

I believe @[Li...] uses a professionally compounded, and stability-tested, clonazepam formulation.  I’m sure she wouldn’t mind sharing her experience and information regarding the topic if she is around and feeling up to it.

[[Ha...]]

20 hours ago, [[M...] said:

@[je...]You must be my twin, I hit a wave at 0.4 and held for 8 weeks then felt much better…lol.  
 

@[Ha...], @[Fa...] is right, the most important thing is to be consistent in your procedure.  Don’t worry about the weight of any one pill, it will even out over time.  Clonazepam has a long half life, so the difference between a pill weighing .171 and .170 is really miniscule.  I prefer dry cutting because I find it less tedious, even though it may not be as accurate in theory as a liquid taper.  I just found liquid tapering to have too many steps and got a little OCD about making mistakes.  Again, just pick a method and stick with it consistently.  

Really appreciate the thoughtful reply, @[Fa...]. I have been consistent in my approach as i've tip toed from .5mg to .45mg. It's taken almost 2 months and i haven't exceeded 3% with any cut. It is making me think that the path to 0mg is simply unattainable for me. My windows seem to be better than most people since i've not yet hit tolerance withdrawal, but my waves seem worse. Especially when you consider how tiny my cuts have been.

Just feeling like i'm not one of the lucky ones who gets to write a success story. My sensitivity to gabaergic substances is through the roof from years of alcohol kindling. I wasn't even a daily drinker, but binge drinking wreaks havoc.

Sigh, hopefully this wave passes soon and i'll feel silly for typing this.

[[Ha...]]

22 hours ago, [[j...] said:

FWIW I hit a wave at 0.4mg K. I held for 6 weeks and felt much better. I switched to liquid and it was so much easier than dry tapering. I'm not saying it's more or less accurate but gosh if you can get it compounded the convenience of just using a syringe is great.

Thanks for the reply, @[je...]! Holding does tend to do the trick for me. Which would be alright, i suppose, if i was making 5-10% reductions. I have been cutting about 2% at a time over the last 2 months to get from .5mg to .45mg. I've hit two waves. The first was painful but lasted less than a week. This one has roared on for 12 days. The SI has set in. If i'm struggling this much going from .5 to .45mg, the prospect of me going from .45mg to 0, withstanding acute withdrawal and PAWS, all just seems impossible. 

I don't really mind the inconvenience of shaving and weighing my pills. I even invested in a $1200 scale so i can measure my pills down to .1mg. It is interesting that I had very little issue going from .5mg to .4625mg, but have hit two waves since. It's making me wonder if my method is flawed and the further i get from that whole pill (.5mg), the more my flawed method will rear its head.

I'm glad to hear you felt better after a 6 week hold! I had to hold for about 9 weeks when i originally got to .5mg. I had rapid tapered from 1-1.5mg, but had only been on Klonopin for about 7 weeks when i started that taper. 

I'll give some thought to liquid compound. My benzo psychiatrist prefers compounded pills to liquid, and prefers swiching to Valium over both of those, but i really have been scared to completely change my approach. The devil ya know and all.

[[je...]]

46 minutes ago, [[H...] said:

Holding does tend to do the trick for me. Which would be alright, i suppose, if i was making 5-10% reductions. I have been cutting about 2% at a time over the last 2 months to get from .5mg to .45mg. I've hit two waves. 

I get it. This is so frustrating. Sounds like you've been doing everything right. I wish I had the answers for you. Just know I understand how demoralising this must be.