Has anyone had any success stabilizing from holding?

[[Md...]]

I seem to be going through another difficult moment as i continue my very slow taper, but am having some neurological symptoms. I was thinking about holding to see if i could stabilize. Im only doing 5% cuts every month, but every so often i get hit hard with a bad day. 
 

Has anyone had anyone had any luck stabilizing with holding?

[[Mi...]]

Hi @[Md...],

From my own experience (going on for almost a year now) I have never gotten what I would consider to be “fully” stable from holding. In that being completely normal. However, holding has helped me tremendously along my path. If I didn’t hold for a long period, like I was basically forced to, I would be in a much worse position today. I have also switched to a longer acting benzo (Valium) recently. That has helped me tremendously in gaining functionality while reducing. My best advice would be to either hold or switch to a daily micro taper if you’re not doing so already. The micro taper has also just been extremely beneficial for me. You’ll get there buddy.

Cheers

[[...]]

Hi there:).  I’m new here, but I can certainly attest to holding to get stabilized.  This is my 3rd time tapering over the last 6 years from 1-2mg of k.  I’ve done it all - came completely off 2 x only to reinstate because I needed to be able to work and function- at the very least to keep me distracted from this whole process.  Each time I reinstated it took a while ( think 3-6 months before I felt well enough to start tapering again ) .  I was scared to death thinking I would not stabilize, but slowly, slowly I did.  For me at least , this worked.  And I have read enough experiences here that it would happen for you too.  Think of it like a tuning fork- hit that tuning fork once - ( the fork is your nervous system reacting) it strongly vibrates, after a while the vibrations slow down until the fork is still again:). It does take time ….

hope this helps.

L.N

[Guest [...]]

@[Md...]

I would just wonder what you mean by a few neurological symptoms?

Do you feel you’ve stabilised by the time you make your cut each month? 

[[Md...]]

1 hour ago, [[W...] said:

@[Md...]

I would just wonder what you mean by a few neurological symptoms?

Do you feel you’ve stabilised by the time you make your cut each month? 

It’s mostly brain fog, some short term memory loss, and inability to focus for long periods of time.

As far as tapering goes, I’ve been doing a slow daily micro/hyperbolic taper.

Other symptoms are depression, agitation, lack of motivation/apathy, and excess fatigue. 

These symptoms seem to worsen the more i taper, and im only 2 months into what’s supposed to be a 19 month long taper. Im sure i have it a lot easier than others, but there are moments where i feel like i need a break, if that makes sense.

I have been under a lot of stress lately, so maybe that’s contributing.

Edited February 4 by [Md...]

[Guest [...]]

@[Md...]

Even with a daily micro taper, it’s still necessary to build holds into your taper in order to avoid daily cuts from piling up. 

Stress will also increase symptoms. 

[[Md...]]

7 hours ago, [[W...] said:

@[Md...]

Even with a daily micro taper, it’s still necessary to build holds into your taper in order to avoid daily cuts from piling up. 

Stress will also increase symptoms. 

Thanks for the feedback 👍

[[Md...]]

8 hours ago, [[W...] said:

@[Md...]

Even with a daily micro taper, it’s still necessary to build holds into your taper in order to avoid daily cuts from piling up. 

Stress will also increase symptoms. 

I guess this begs the question, when do you hold, and for how long?

I suppose the obvious answer is hold when symptoms become too disruptive, and then start tapering again when you feel better, but this has been a very slow taper and I’m only 2 months into a 19 month tapering plan. Seems like a ridiculously long time to taper, since I'm already doing a daily micro taper (to theoretically ease/minimize withdrawal symptoms), and especially if i hold every so often. 

[Guest [...]]

Hi @[Md...]

I know @[je...] did a daily micro taper with holds built in, so perhaps (if she feels up to it and finds a moment) she could give you a bit of an idea of how she went about it.

She will get a notification linking her to this post. 

[Guest [...]]

[[je...]]

What I basically did was change my approach. My taper rate was 5% every two weeks, but instead of tapering continuously every day, I increased my percentage to 7.5% every two weeks. Then I tapered for 7 days and held my dose for 3 days. This effectively lowered my percentage back to 5% every two weeks again, but somehow it felt better for me to have those days off, than continuously tapering. 

[[Ri...]]

I have the same issues holding re: still trying to function with family and life. I have been holding at 1 mg of Klonopin after tapering down from 2 mg (two months now). I plan to hold here another month. I will tell you I find taking my first dose of the day as late in the day as possible; 2-3pm. In the morning I go on a 15-20mile bike ride. The endorphin rush after ride soothes me as my brain transitions to having less K in the morning hours during this holding period. Beginning in March I plan to begin tapering again by quartering one of the two 0.50 mg tablets every week to a month. I currently take 2x 0.50mg tablets per day. Exercise is the key for me. Long walks or rides. That my plan. 

[Guest [...]]

@[Ri...]

Please be careful with your taper at lower doses. Your next 1mg may be considerably more difficult than the first. 

Here’s a link to @[Li...] explanation of receptor occupancy at lower doses. 

 

[[Ri...]]

Thank you Winters Sun for this information 🙏

[[Gy...]]

On 06/02/2024 at 02:57, [[M...] said:

I guess this begs the question, when do you hold, and for how long?

I suppose the obvious answer is hold when symptoms become too disruptive, and then start tapering again when you feel better, but this has been a very slow taper and I’m only 2 months into a 19 month tapering plan. Seems like a ridiculously long time to taper, since I'm already doing a daily micro taper (to theoretically ease/minimize withdrawal symptoms), and especially if i hold every so often. 

I thought I would chime in on this discussion……I’ve been on valium for 18 years and been slowly getting off. I once made a massive cut when crossing from Ativan to valium and not understanding the equivalency actually cut 25mg out in one hit, as you can imagine it was a nightmare and I held at 5 mg of valium for 4 years until I stabilized and could function. Since then I’ve tried various ways of cutting and now stick to a symptoms based micro-taper with long holds.
In the beginning I was in a hurry to be rid of these medications but time and suffering has taught me that this is not a race but a marathon and I’m gladly gently bumping down the stairs one at a time rather than sliding down a ramp at full speed.
Everyone is different and we all have to find the best way that works for us.

cheers

Gypsy 

[[TH...]]

Off subject. I dropped from 5mg to 4.5mg last Thursday 22nd. How long does it take for the drop to sort of stabilise? Suffering badly this last week. I was on 5mg for 5 weeks. 

[[So...]]

I agree with the person at the very beginning who said to microtaper, I'm doing that for mirtazapine and it's the only way I don't have debilitating symptoms while continuing to make progress!

[[Gy...]]

13 hours ago, [[T...] said:

Off subject. I dropped from 5mg to 4.5mg last Thursday 22nd. How long does it take for the drop to sort of stabilise? Suffering badly this last week. I was on 5mg for 5 weeks. 

@[TH...]
Everyone is different as there are so many things to factor in, how long have you been on valium before you decided to taper? 
What is the speed of your taper? When making previous cuts what side effects did you experience? How long did they last?

I keep a log of everything, I make a cut, then I wait to see if there is going to be any fallout that gives me a timeline as valium is a long acting benzo, I take notes of all side effects and I don’t make another cut until I stabilise.  The lower I get the harder it gets so I microtaper which makes it so much more tolerable.

Hope this helps

cheers

Gypsy

 

 

[[Gy...]]

10 hours ago, [[S...] said:

I agree with the person at the very beginning who said to microtaper, I'm doing that for mirtazapine and it's the only way I don't have debilitating symptoms while continuing to make progress!

@[So...]

Totally agree that microtaper is the way to go especially when we get to the lower numbers. Much nicer to be able to function with minimal symptoms.

gypsy

[[Li...]]

I was able to stabilize when holding during the first phase of my taper. I tapered from 2mg Xanax to 1mg and held that for around a year. Then I switched over to Valium and stabilized and held for 1 year due to an upcoming surgery. After I was completely off the opiates and was feeling better I started my Valium taper. I never stabilized during that part of my taper but I had two major stressful events that made it difficult. One was getting a corticosteroid shot 10 weeks into that phase of my taper that put me into full blown akathisia. 

[[Gy...]]

My last cut was in August of 2023 I went from 2.5 mg to 2mg and I still haven’t stabilised, I’ve had days and weeks in between where I have felt pretty good but there is no consistency. So that’s 7 months and waiting. This cut has been quite hard. Still suffering but windows getting wider. Hopefully a long hold if the dr will allow.

 

gypsy

 

[[Wa...]]

On 04/02/2024 at 00:09, [[M...] said:

I seem to be going through another difficult moment as i continue my very slow taper, but am having some neurological symptoms. I was thinking about holding to see if i could stabilize. Im only doing 5% cuts every month, but every so often i get hit hard with a bad day. 
 

Has anyone had anyone had any luck stabilizing with holding?

How long have you been on benzos and what was your dose?

[[Md...]]

5 hours ago, [[W...] said:

How long have you been on benzos and what was your dose?

Been on them for about a year. Started at about 2 to 3 mg of Xanax. Tapered myself down to 1.5mg, which was then slowly converted to 30mg of Valium last summer and have been tapering since then. 

[[Md...]]

Another thing I’ll note. I notice on days that i lift weights, i get ridiculously tired and have more brain fog compared to the days I don’t work out. Does anyone know if this is common? Extra cortisol or bodily stress causing minor “waves”, perhaps? 

As an example, all last week i was sick with a minor head cold, so i didn’t work out at all, and i honestly felt better. 

I definitely don’t just want to lay around all day either, so maybe light exercise is key?

I dunno. The CNS is hard to figure out when it comes to this stuff, i guess.

Edited March 4 by [Md...]

[[Gy...]]

3 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Another thing I’ll note. I notice on days that i lift weights, i get ridiculously tired after taking my first dose of Valium compared to the days I don’t work out. Does anyone know if this is common? Extra cortical or body stress causing minor “waves”, perhaps? 

As an example, all last week i was sick with a head cold, so i didn’t work out at all, and honestly felt better. 

I definitely don’t just want to lay around all day either, so maybe light exercise is key?

I dunno. The CNS is hard to figure out when it comes to this stuff, i guess.

@[Md...] I’d agree with that, I’ve been working out the last 2 weeks going good I thought then slammed with a terrible wave of nausea, dry retching, body aches from hell and the anxiety was overwhelming.

So maybe the exercise has upset the CNS. I can honestly say after last night I’m really over this, I’ve been doing it for so long and the lower I get the harder the sx are to take. 
I’m on a hold now and intend to stay here for a long time, plus I think as you get older it gets harder.

sorry for the rant but not a good day.

cheers

gypsy