ECT, TMS or ketamine?

[[...]]

I have been off ativan for 20 months now and am having severe depression. My GP suggested I consider one of these alternatives to help with the depression as it is so severe. What has been your experience with any of these?

[[Pa...]]

Hello @[...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I’m sorry to hear about your depression, I had a taste of that when I was recovering and know how dark and scary it can be, I hope we can help you find something to help.

I don’t have experience with any of these, but I’ve read quite a few members discussing them so if you don’t get replies right away, you might use the search function.

May I ask, what is TMS?

[[...]]

43 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

Hello @[...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I’m sorry to hear about your depression, I had a taste of that when I was recovering and know how dark and scary it can be, I hope we can help you find something to help.

I don’t have experience with any of these, but I’ve read quite a few members discussing them so if you don’t get replies right away, you might use the search function.

May I ask, what is TMS?

Transcranial magnetic stimulation

 

[[dj...]]

I tried TMS.  About an hour after each session I felt a nice pick me up.  I had to stop though because I started going through massive benzo withdrawal and it was complicating everything.  
 

TMS was easy.  Like three minutes of small electric impulses to head and I was out.  ECT is really crude.  They put you under and send you into a controlled seizure.  Ketamine can make you hallucinate.  Have to stay at doc for like an hour after administration.  

[[De...]]

I'll be benzo free 3 years this coming April 11 so I thought I'd be safe doing TMS for depression. I started treatment on October 3, 2023. I was supposed to have 30 sessions for depression. It initially reduced my chronic body pain and benzo belly pain during the first 7 or 8 session but then it started making my belly pain worse. I ended up quitting after 18 of the 30 sessions due to increased agitation, pain, insomnia, etc. etc. etc.

It's been almost 2 months since my last treatment on November 3, 2023 and I now have severe tinnitus. I had it before the treatment but it's doubled in volume and driving me crazy. I'm also having memory problems but that could be caused by an antihistamine I started taking in November for asthma. I also feel drugged and out of it but again the antihistamine could be the reason.

Let me direct you to a website that I wish I'd seen before I started the treatment.

https://tms-sideeffects.com/

[[Ri...]]

I have a friend who was actively suicidal and family, with the help of his psychiatrist arranged for an immediate Ketamine treatment in the Los Angeles area. After one treatment it pulled him out of the suicidal episode. He was being treated for depression but wasn’t taking Benzo’s. I believe they don’t recommend getting ketamine treatment if you’re taking a benzodiazepines.

[[Ri...]]

That tms-side effects site is run by anti-psychiatry folks. TMS has been used in Europe for years with great success. The anti-psychiatry folks make a living writing stories about the horrors of such treatment, in my opinion it’s BS. based on the available quantitative data, (that’s my opinion) is supported by unbiased data. My doctor told me these treatments were originally used for extreme suicidal individuals (as well as ketamine) to pull people out of the dark pit ASAP. In addition, many of these anti-psychiatry doctors-researchers have little clinical experience. Again, just my opinion.

[[...]]

Hi all. I'll express my opinion as soon as possible. Interfering with the work of the brain is definitely dangerous; this human organ has not been studied by scientists, professors and doctors. Personally, my opinion is that even the same benzodiazepine already causes enormous harm Normal brain function. Why further aggravate this with all sorts of incomprehensible experiments. I understand that the consequences of using benzodiazepines, even after their withdrawal, remain for the entire  I so regret that I even picked up this drug.

[[Ka...]]

welcome @[...] ECT seems to me to be a serious approach geared to a treatment resistant depression i.e. where other treatments have been explored & exhausted.
 

In my opinion, ECT would be the absolute last consideration. Don’t have insight into TMS or ketamine but hopefully by research & via feedback from others you will be able to decide what feels right for you. 
Wishing you well. 
 

 

link re ECT in case this may be helpful in decision making process 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7044268/

Edited February 1 by [Ka...]
Added link

[[dj...]]

14 hours ago, [[R...] said:

That tms-side effects site is run by anti-psychiatry folks. TMS has been used in Europe for years with great success. The anti-psychiatry folks make a living writing stories about the horrors of such treatment, in my opinion it’s BS. based on the available quantitative data, (that’s my opinion) is supported by unbiased data. My doctor told me these treatments were originally used for extreme suicidal individuals (as well as ketamine) to pull people out of the dark pit ASAP. In addition, many of these anti-psychiatry doctors-researchers have little clinical experience. Again, just my opinion.

Ketamine treatment doesn’t really work with people taking benzos because it activates the glutamate system, and as we know benzos work on the GABA system.  Benzos partially negate its efficacy. 

Edited February 1 by [dj...]

[[ns...]]

6 minutes ago, [[d...] said:

Ketamine treatment doesn’t really work with people taking benzos because it activates the glutamate system, and as we know benzos work on the GABA system.  Benzos partially negate its efficacy. 

Glutamate is a terrible substance that we don't make in our own bodies. It's in food, it's in everything. It activates histamine. I'm finding I have an intolerance to it so life is pretty rough right now to find foods low in it. I'll have to take supplements to attack the glutamate and I can't take supplements right now. I've hears terrible things about ketamine,  do your homework

 

Ns

 

 

[[dj...]]

1 hour ago, [[n...] said:

Glutamate is a terrible substance that we don't make in our own bodies. It's in food, it's in everything. It activates histamine. I'm finding I have an intolerance to it so life is pretty rough right now to find foods low in it. I'll have to take supplements to attack the glutamate and I can't take supplements right now. I've hears terrible things about ketamine,  do your homework

Ns

Glutamate and GABA are the most abundant neurotransmitters in our bodies brains.  Are you just saying it has to come from food?

Yes I am on a low glutamate diet and avoid a lot of foods.  Avoid MSG like the plague.  It messes me up.  Learned the hard way.  
 

Some people with lifelong depression will swear by ketamine.  But, most docs generally don’t try it until other stuff fails. 

[[Li...]]

37 minutes ago, [[d...] said:

Glutamate and GABA are the most abundant neurotransmitters in our bodies brains.  Are you just saying it has to come from food?

 

 

Hello @[dj...]. 

“Glutamate is synthesized in the central nervous system from glutamine as part of the glutamate–glutamine cycle by the enzyme glutaminase. This can occur in the presynaptic neuron or in neighboring glial cells.”

Glutamate (neurotransmitter) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate_(neurotransmitter)

 

 

 

 

[[ns...]]

3 minutes ago, [[L...] said:

Hello @[dj...]. 

“Glutamate is synthesized in the central nervous system from glutamine as part of the glutamate–glutamine cycle by the enzyme glutaminase. This can occur in the presynaptic neuron or in neighboring glial cells.”

Glutamate (neurotransmitter) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate_(neurotransmitter)

I thought it did. But after seeing libertas quote I guess I need to read up. I'm sick, anything with glutamate, Histamine makes me so sick. I did a little research on the foods thar contain glutamate and it shows almost everything has it sns its a non essential amino acid we don't need. Guess I need to follow this link to read up, hopefully it will help .

Thanks libertas

[[ns...]]

1 minute ago, [[n...] said:

I thought it did. But after seeing libertas quote I guess I need to read up. I'm sick, anything with glutamate, Histamine makes me so sick. I did a little research on the foods thar contain glutamate and it shows almost everything has it sns its a non essential amino acid we don't need. Guess I need to follow this link to read up, hopefully it will help .

Thanks libertas

Antagonist is Ketamine!!! Ok then, I've been misled. Thanks again libertas 

[[ns...]]

1 hour ago, [[d...] said:

Glutamate and GABA are the most abundant neurotransmitters in our bodies brains.  Are you just saying it has to come from food?

Yes I am on a low glutamate diet and avoid a lot of foods.  Avoid MSG like the plague.  It messes me up.  Learned the hard way.  
 

Some people with lifelong depression will swear by ketamine.  But, most docs generally don’t try it until other stuff fails. 

I was absolutely wrong on this. Going to have to do some homework. I was told that Ketamine is a terrible therapy and glutamate I read was only in food but I see from. Libertas that it is in our brains and is a neurotransmitter fir nerve function I think. Gonna need extensive research for this because I am running out if options for food! So sick today, everything I eat causes me more nerve stinging all over my brain and body. 

I found links for supplements to combat glutamate and read somewhere that its a non essential amino acid not found in our bodys??body's??? Idk I guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet right.

I'm grateful he posted the link

Thanks again and I'm sorry for the misinformation 

Ns

[[ns...]]

1 hour ago, [[d...] said:

Glutamate and GABA are the most abundant neurotransmitters in our bodies brains.  Are you just saying it has to come from food?

Yes I am on a low glutamate diet and avoid a lot of foods.  Avoid MSG like the plague.  It messes me up.  Learned the hard way.  
 

Some people with lifelong depression will swear by ketamine.  But, most docs generally don’t try it until other stuff fails. 

Hi djej2010, can u please tell me what foods u are able to eat? It sounds  like we're experiencing the same issues with glutamate and histamine intolerance. I'm starting to have a better understanding of what activates what where glutamate and histamine are concerned. I'm feel so uninformed and frankly stupid on this subject when I need so much to understand it. I'm grateful you and libertas were here to correct me.

Can u tell me what foids you can't eat and what u can eat so far, what else causes a reaction and how is your weight snd health?

Thanks again 

Ns

[[Pa...]]

28 minutes ago, [[n...] said:

Hi djej2010, can u please tell me what foods u are able to eat? It sounds  like we're experiencing the same issues with glutamate and histamine intolerance. I'm starting to have a better understanding of what activates what where glutamate and histamine are concerned. I'm feel so uninformed and frankly stupid on this subject when I need so much to understand it. I'm grateful you and libertas were here to correct me.

Can u tell me what foids you can't eat and what u can eat so far, what else causes a reaction and how is your weight snd health?

Thanks again 

Ns

It would be a good idea to start your own thread for this discussion @[ns...], so we can focus on @[...] concerns.