Thinking about going to the hospital

[[...]]

i’ve been prescribed 2 mg Klonopin for the last 30 years. Was in slight tolerance withdrawal before I started my taper 1 1/2 years ago. Managed to get down to 1.125 MG in a year, didn’t feel I was well enough to make another cut so I held. I ended up holding for 5 1/2 months which I guess in retrospect was too long. The symptoms I was having that kept me from cutting started getting worse and worse. I tried doing a slight up Dose of .125 mg it’s been 10 days and I’m still getting worse. I know my choices are bleak, updose more, Make a cut? I just don’t know what to do anymore. Can’t think straight. nausea is so bad I forced myself to eat, but still lost 10 pounds and the last two weeks I need medical advice that my nurse practitioner is just not providing.maybe a trip to the ER. May provide some medical advice.

Maybe someone that has been through severe tolerance withdrawal can chime in

Thank you

[Guest [...]]

I’m very sorry to learn what you’re going through @[...]

Im not in your situation… never been in severe tolerance withdrawal, but It doesn’t sound like further up-dosing is your answer based on your most recent up-dose. 

Professor Ashton (the Ashton manual) suggests for those experiencing tolerance withdrawal to taper faster than the usual suggested taper, but of course, it depends on how you can tolerate those reductions as to how fast you go. Some of those in tolerance withdrawal find that symptoms decrease the lower in dose they go, but tapering at a set rate is still necessary… as opposed to making huge reductions and thinking you’ll feel a decrease in symptoms immediately after reductions. 

I hope others will soon jump on who have been in a similar situation… speaking from their own direct experience. 🫂
 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

@[...]

I just went through your other thread and read what @[je...] suggested. 

I should’ve mentioned in my post above that stabilisation can take time with an updose, especially if you crashed after tapering too fast. 

Jelly tapered klonopin whereas I didn’t, although I was on it for a short time before switching to diazepam. ‘I think what she said makes sense… holding on that dose for a couple of weeks. You will have to really look closely at whether you feel your symptoms really are getting worse or potentially increasing because of accumulated stress through this destabilised period. Based on what you feel is true, you may make a call to up-dose another .125 and see if that alleviates symptoms and levels you out over the following week or two. As jelly said… there are no guarantee's, but if it can stabilise you, you will fare better on your way back down. 
 

Edited January 28 by Guest

[[Bu...]]

Hi geno,

I'm so sorry to hear wd has been hard for you. It's been 4 months since my taper ended and ( and I don't mean to scare you) but life is pretty bad for me now. I was on klonopin ( and other addictive drugs) for 27 years. You're doing very well with you're taper, and no, holding for 5 1/2  months is not too long! It took me about 3 1/2 years to taper off  about 1 1/2 mg. and I truly know I could not taper any faster. I was forced to updose a tiny bit a couple of times and that was absolutely necessary. I have had all the symptoms you describe but now I have just the mental ones. Dr's could not and have not helped me one bit. I guess I haven't found the right Dr. I do know you have to taper at your own pace- there's no fast way to do this!!! ( I've looked into absolutly everything ). One upside is that my Dr. Allowed me to taper at my own pace and promised not to cut my supply off. I've never been tempted whatsoever to go back on even though life is hell now. I just have to hope one day I'll be better.

Again, I'm sorry you're experiencing all this. You are not alone!!

Big hugs!!!

Edited January 28 by [Bu...]

[Guest [...]]

Hugs to you, @[Bu...]

[[Br...]]

Hi @[...] - I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I want to echo what @[Wi...] said: my understanding is that it can take several weeks to know whether updosing is effective. So it may make the most sense to give it more time.  I know it's miserable.  You will get through this taking one step after the other and moving forward through each day.

[Guest [...]]

I remember holding on a dose (not up-dosing) and it took 14 weeks before I felt stable enough to taper again. 

There were also times where symptoms would intensify after each dose where I thought it was paradoxical (which I guess it was), but as I stabilised, the doses then began to decrease symptoms rather than increase them. When the doses were having a paradoxical effect, I would go into convulsions after dosing, shaking uncontrollably, so intense they would shake me right out of my recliner. I would drag myself across the floor and outside onto the front or back lawn to feel a breeze on my face which would help bring me back to myself and calm my system. My point being… ‘sometimes’ being destabilised can make doses seem like they are making you worse, but gradually, as time passes and you begin to stabilise, the dose becomes more and more therapeutic. 

In saying that, there are also those who (no matter how long they hold) don’t seem to stabilise. 
 

However, I think it makes perfect sense to give yourself the time to make absolutely sure ‘one way or another’ before embarking on a significantly more difficult taper journey than may have been necessary. 

Edited January 28 by Guest

[[...]]

thank you everybody for your kindly advice and your journeyman knowledge. I know this is hard to answer, but do you think my previous cut caught up to me? Could my tolerance withdrawal have gotten so much worse by holding 5 1/2 months then it was pre-taper
Again, thank you everyone

[Guest [...]]

You’re right, @[...]

That is very difficult to answer with any surety. 

I just went through your taper history and I just want to ask you a question… how did you feel as you tapered down before holding for 5 months? Was it much the same all the way down or did the reductions continually get more difficult to the point where you had to hold? 

[[...]]

Some reductions were easier than the others, In the beginning a bit aggressive but they didn’t hurt too bad. then I cut back to .0625 and I had to hold a bit longer. It started to play out differently than the earlier cuts Which I had symptoms day 3 to 10. My later cuts I didn’t really feel symptoms till close to a month and was symptomatic for about three weeks. i’d wait a week and make a cut. I did have to hold for a couple months one or two times.

[Guest [...]]

Cut down to .0625 reductions? 

[[...]]

Yes, I started at .125 reductions and then cut back to .0625 reduction

[Guest [...]]

It looks like you also held for a bit over 4 months between January and June last year. And then you held for the 5 1/2 months until just this month. 

Although I haven’t figured out the exact percentage you were reducing at, the reductions don’t seem to be much over 5%

From what I’m seeing here, tolerance withdrawal does seem to be the probability. 

You have already detoxed only to reinstate, so I assume you feel that’s not the option for you. 

If I were in your shoes, I would wait a little longer to see if theres any improvement in symptoms from that up-dose, and if not, I think I would probably focus solely on tapering off at whatever reduction percentage you can tolerate. I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but it does seem that you’re in a situation where you may not have any other option. As I said earlier… as you continue to taper down, you may find that some symptoms may begin to ease. 

I wish I give you offer you a better set of options, @[...], but sometimes we are left with only that one option. 

I would still wait a little longer with that updose and monitor symptoms, but if there’s no improvement and you feel you are the same or only getting worse, I would then start your tapering down. 
 

Just know that whatever happens, we will be here to support and encourage you all the way down and through your recovery. 

 

[[...]]

Thank you, Winters sun

I will hold a little bit longer, I am just concerned about getting no sleep and nausea-losing weight. I guess I’ll just have to bite the bullet and pushed through.

 

[Guest [...]]

It’s a very difficult situation you’re in @[...], and as you can see… even I have been swinging one way to the other… 

Its interesting that when you dropped you reduction percentage to .625, you didn’t really experience symptoms until up to a month. That kind of makes me think you handled the reduction well, but tolerance symptoms increased the longer you held. Or did you just hit a wave of symptoms brought on by external means which overstimulated your nervous system. These are only things that you could figure out for yourself based on what’s happening around you at any given time. 

Also, I’m thinking you must’ve been in a pretty rough state to decide to hold for that 5 1/2 months.

Im asking myself questions such as… If you did manage to ease symptoms by up-dosing, how much less would those symptoms be compared to what you are experiencing right now. What would your baseline symptom profile look like… would it look much better, and would it be enough to make your eventual taper much easier? 

How bad are your symptoms right now? 

You’ve experienced acute withdrawal after detoxing, so how do your current symptoms compare to what you went through in acute withdrawal? 

[Guest [...]]

There are also those in tolerance who experience a window (decrease in symptoms) directly after reductions. 

I wonder what would have happened if (when you weren’t experiencing any significant symptom uptick after reducing) you cut again before you reached that onset of symptoms around the month mark… would you have had a similar experience and avoided the onset of those symptoms by not holding too long!?  

[Guest [...]]

Just spitballing here

[[...]]

Yes, they are all good questions. as it’s been said on here many times nothing is linear. All my previous cuts. I seem to go back to my baseline which wasn’t great but I was functionable. I would get up off the couch and do the things I needed to do,after the last cut in August it just did not return. I stayed very anxious, sleep, got worse, but I did sleep, belly problems, pins, and needles, all the usual stuff after two months, I tried making a small reduction, and things got real rough after three days so I went right back to the same dose and I held for a few more months and then things went downhill. After my detox, I did not have all these physical issues, but it was only four weeks. My problem was all mental. I couldn’t read I couldn’t write I couldn’t drive couldn’t do my bills or fend for myself. I am alone except for my young son, so that’s why I reinstated. I was waiting for that baseline to return. That’s why I held for so long, sure hope this updose works. If I could get back to that baseline, I can grind my way through this!

[[ji...]]

hello @[...]. so sorry you are struggling right now.  i have been tapering 2mg of klonopin for over 3 years now. i took twice a day for 30 years.  there have been a few times in my taper where i had to updose to get  stable.  it took a few weeks for me to begin to feel ok again, but it was the only way for me to keep going.  i hope you begin to feel better soon.   health & healing to you~~~jill

[Guest [...]]

[[je...]]

I'm just going to throw a spanner in the works here and hope if others disagree, they would please speak up. I was being very conservative on your other thread because you were quite resistant to updosing and I think your dose (0.125mg) was too small. I think by now you should've felt some difference from the updose. It can take quite some time to stabilize and feel the full effect from an updose, but I do think you should've felt at least some difference after 10 days. You sound like you're getting much worse and I think you should try 0.25mg for two days and if it doesn't work another 0.25mg after two days. Yes, that would equate to a 0.5mg updose in total with no guarantee that it's going to work. It totally depends on how sick and desperate you feel. If this is not an option you feel is viable, I completely understand. 

Your other option is to start reducing in the hopes that you'll feel better as you get lower - also no guarantees. I'm really sorry. I wish I could give you more and better options that I feel certain about. 

If this is indeed tolerance, then I don't think holding for longer than two weeks is going to help you. In fact, I think holding for too long might make it worse. 

I would love to hear the input from others who have contributed to this thread. 

[[...]]

Hi jelly baby
I know you had asked me and one of our early conversations if I had a stressful event-I didn’t. I started holding because I was symptomatic and couldn’t make a cut, as time went on. I kept holding because I had to make some doctors appointments. I postponed once, but I really have to make these appointments now. One of them is to my vascular surgeon because the veins to my legs are getting bad. another is my PSA is high and already had a couple biopsies of my prostate. vascular surgeon is on Tuesday. maybe these things in the back of my head has been stressing me out. Do you think this could’ve caused my increased symptoms these last two weeks.The more I think about it I have been stressing because my symptoms are getting worse. Makes me think about missing my appointments. Could it just be a vicious cycle I’ve got myself into.

yours truly, dazed and confused

Edited January 29 by [...]

[[je...]]

[[...]]

I really appreciate your advice and clearheaded logic, I really do feel a bit frantic right now,not knowing what to do.I do believe I have a bit of anxiety that has been brought on by worry. The anxiety really does affect my abdomen muscles And my cramping gut-nausea. I don’t know if this stress is affecting my sleep. It hasn’t been two weeks since the updose and my doctor appointment is on Tuesday so I’m going to see if I get any relief depending on what the doctor says. I’m really not thinking at my best and I’m nervous about updosing that much and losing all that hard fought ground.I do not know much about this process and I do look to you for guidance.I have a couple days and a bit to think about.thanks so much for helping me through this.

 

 

 

 

[[je...]]

You're welcome. We all know how hard this process is, so even if you just don't feel alone and know there are people who understand. I think for me, one of the hardest things during my taper was not having a medical professional that could tell me what to do. Because I knew my thinking was compromised. And it was so difficult being all alone and trying to make the best medical decision for myself when I was really struggling and feeling so sick. We might not be able to tell you what to do, but we do understand emotionally what you're going through.