Need help please! Should I jump?

[[ns...]]

At 530am I woke up, felt good! Missed my dose at 5am, so went ahead and took it at 530am, started getting anxious, no sleep. Up at 930 for breakfast,  can't lay there anymore! Difficult to eat, throat is tight. Jerking. At11:15 realized I missed 11 am dose, I was feeling pretty good by then. Took dose at 11:15, and I'm miserable in 10 minutes. All the symptoms are back, squeezing throughout my body etc. Is it time for me to jump? These pills are making me worse as I've said from the beginning. Idk what I should do. I listen to my body right, it feels better off than when I'm on them but before  Missed a 5am dose and by 10 am I was a total wreck! 

Need some advice please.  I'm down to just under 3/4mg lorazepam split inton4 doses.

Thanks

Ns

 

[[Br...]]

What dose is the pill you're splitting?

[[ns...]]

1 minute ago, [[B...] said:

What dose is the pill you're splitting?

1mg lorazapam 

Edited January 24 by [ns...]
Additions and corrections

[[Br...]]

Have you decided not to use the scale?

 

[[ns...]]

1 minute ago, [[B...] said:

Have you decided not to use the scale

I would still use it for remainder of taper. Just concerned about cutting this dose. But if I don't I remain in turmoil everyday. I think that's a 33% cut

Edited January 24 by [ns...]
Additions and corrections

[[ns...]]

1 minute ago, [[n...] said:

I would still use it for remainder of taper. Just concerned about cutting this dose. But if I don't I remain in turmoil everyday. I think that's a 33% cut

I have baclofen 5mg I could take in its place, it's a muscle relaxer I used for trigeminal neuralgia yrs ago. I tried it last week. Didn't do much but did help a little.

[[Br...]]

I wouldn't make a cut of 33% - way too big.  As you know, we typically suggest making cuts of no more than 5-10%.  I think larger cuts are just asking for trouble.  

Could you explain what you mean about taking baclofen in place of lorazepam?  

 

[[ns...]]

6 minutes ago, [[B...] said:

I wouldn't make a cut of 33% - way too big.  As you know, we typically suggest making cuts of no more than 5-10%.  I think larger cuts are just asking for trouble.  

Could you explain what you mean about taking baclofen in place of lorazepam?  

Well I would miss a dose and take the baclofen instead but I know your right, 33% is too big if that's what it is. If I miss one dose a day.. 3/4mg split into 4, if i.miss one dose, isn't that 33%. ?

[[Hu...]]

Cutting lorazepam is difficult because the pills are so small yet very potent. I had a dr. once tell me to just take a quarter (.25) less. Well, that was doable before habituation really started to hit me.

Cutting lorazepam is still not that great because there is a lot of filler in that tablet, so what percentage of the active ingredient are you cutting out? It is a big guess. Cutting diazepam is easy. Large tablets, not that potent. There is forgiveness for inaccuracy.

Edited January 25 by [Hu...]

[[ns...]]

5 minutes ago, [[H...] said:

Cutting lorazepam is difficult because the pills are so small yet very potent. I had a dr. once tell me to just take a quarter (.25) less. Well, that was doable before habituation really started to hit me.

Cutting lorazepam is still not that great because there is a lot of filler in that tablet, so what percentage of the active ingredient are you cutting out? It is a big guess. Cutting diazepam is easy. Large tablets, not that potent. There is forgiveness for inaccuracy.

Yes I know this. But I can't take any benzos now, I had reaction to clonazepam and valuim as well. I guess just have to do slow cuts as suggested and deal with it

[[ns...]]

1 minute ago, [[n...] said:

Yes I know this. But I can't take any benzos now, I had reaction to clonazepam and valuim as well. I guess just have to do slow cuts as suggested and deal with it

Brighterday,  I'll wait for the scale tonight. If it comes early enough I'll jump.on and ask for help.

Thanx

[[ns...]]

Just now, [[n...] said:

Brighterday,  I'll wait for the scale tonight. If it comes early enough I'll jump.on and ask for help.

Thanx

It's almost time for my 5pm dose, I'm not looking forward to that at all. I feel a little better. I guess we'll see how it goes.  Usually with dinner it's not as bad. 

[[Br...]]

@[ns...] I know you're in a bind but I honestly don't think it's a good idea to try to substitute baclofen for one of your doses.  Your central nervous system won't recognize baclofen as a replacement and instead it will be stressed by the inconsistent dosing.  

[[ns...]]

Just now, [[B...] said:

@[ns...] I know you're in a bind but I honestly don't think it's a good idea to try to substitute baclofen for one of your doses.  Your central nervous system won't recognize baclofen as a replacement and instead it will be stressed by the inconsistent dosing.  

Thank u Brighterday,  ok. I'm sure your right. I'll jump.on when the scale gets here. Hopefully I'll be able to think clearly enough. I really need to get these cuts right fir sure.

Thank u

[[ns...]]

41 minutes ago, [[n...] said:

Thank u Brighterday,  ok. I'm sure your right. I'll jump.on when the scale gets here. Hopefully I'll be able to think clearly enough. I really need to get these cuts right fir sure.

Thank u

Hi brighterday,  so I just took my 5pm dose, my ears are screaming! Idk what the heck this us. It's really disturbing.  Especially at this late stage in tapering. I realize I didn't use valuim etc but I don't think I'm supposed to be having withdrawal after I take my dose right. I thought it was suppose to get easier.  Maybe it's just for some.  Just wanted to get your opinion on this.

Talk to you soon

Thanx

[[ns...]]

1 hour ago, [[n...] said:

Hi brighterday,  so I just took my 5pm dose, my ears are screaming! Idk what the heck this us. It's really disturbing.  Especially at this late stage in tapering. I realize I didn't use valuim etc but I don't think I'm supposed to be having withdrawal after I take my dose right. I thought it was suppose to get easier.  Maybe it's just for some.  Just wanted to get your opinion on this.

Talk to you soon

Thanx

Took my 5pm dose, it's been an hour and 15. I was more miserable than I've been all day for an hour. I don't understand why taking these doses is causing me so much misery. I'm in such symptoms withdrawal, this makes no sense.  I did nothing different, it's usually bad but this has been the worst. Now I'm dead tired like I'm drunk! Can't lay down i just ate, if i get off the couch symptoms get worse, have to stay right here, not move!

Can anyone relate?

Edited January 25 by [ns...]
Addition

[[ns...]]

Brighterday,  the scale just came it's really cold. It has to be warm to use so I guess it'll be tomorrow and I'm in no condition to deal with that right now

Ns

[Guest [...]]

I have no short term memory @[ns...], so please forgive me if I’m asking questions I’ve already asked or you’ve already answered elsewhere. 

How long have you been at 0.75mg? 

You are in a difficult position, and I know it must seem like you’d be better off not taking the medication because you feel less symptomatic before dosing, but it is misleading because you are not actually experiencing the onset of interdose withdrawal before each dose. If you were to make a sizeable cut or cease taking the medication altogether, you would spiral into considerably more intense acute withdrawal symptoms. 

@[Hu...] is right about the potency and difficulties with dosage accuracy compared to something like Valium, but it’s still better (more accurate) to use a scale than make cuts by eye alone. At least the potency of lorazepam is about half that of clonazepam and alprazolam. 

I cannot say that our situations or experiences with dosing are the same, but there were a couple of periods where I was very unstable (especially after a c/t) where my symptoms would increase dramatically after dosing and I became more and more afraid to dose. As I said… I was very unstable at these times, but as I began to stabilise over more time , the medication gradually shifted to having a clear therapeutic effect rather than exacerbating symptoms. That’s just my own personal experience, and of course I thought the medication had become paradoxical (which I guess it had for a time), but as I stabilised on my dose over a period, it then became therapeutic again, although I’ve never been symptom free. 

When you’re up to it, we can go through the use of the scales, weighing and splitting your tablets, and calculating your reductions.

 

 

 

 

 

[[ns...]]

Hi winters sun, thank u for your response.  After reading jelly baby response I'm clearly not in interdose withdrawal. It is strange the way this has played out over the course of tapering.  I was Taking lorazepam, it beans making have severe anxiety and panic attacks, I had to taper. I took 1mg 4x per day. I'm still on the same time slots for my doses. We used valuim for the 1st 2mg, couldn't tolerate the valuim. From there, started cutting small cuts from each pill. Cut in half, cut half into 2 quarters and took small piece off of one quarter. Cut several the same way to compare.  At that time I didn't know that there was a filler in the pills. Brighterday later explained this and that I needed a scale. Bought the wrong scale, it was complicated. She gave me a link to another one, we thought we ordered it but didn't finish transaction. So, decided to continue very carefully cutting. 

I have never stabilized, this could be why but on the other hand I couldn't stand to taken them at a whole pill. I get the same reaction as I did then when I take a dose with a cut. It's more intense however but it's still the same feelings, with many withdrawal symptoms that have turned excruciating. 

It appears you have experienced this reaction. So u understand. 

I'm sure u read my posts from today and yesterday. I am having miserable symptoms. I woke up feeling great at 530 am but took the dose,felt terrible. No sleep. Finally calmed down at about 10 am, forgot dose again at 11am,11:15 I took the dose, this was a nightmare! Within 10 minutes I was so symptomatic that I was shaking, being squeezed inside and out throughout my body. Crying uncontrollably and thoughtni might have a fit! My husband had to hold me tight. So I went thru it most of the day. 4pm, started feeling ok, took dose before dinner st 5pm, horrible again. I could barely direct my fork to my.mouth due to hyper excitability, lack of coordination and shaking, my bowel was in spasms and my entire core was ripping apart it seemed, stinging everywhere, evert symptomypu cam imagine. Within 10 minutes of taking that dose this us what I got.

So after dinner I sat on the sofa and couldn't move, I used my phone to talk to Darlene here, she kept me distracted. Then I felt drunk, very drunk, I still feel drunk. But the symptoms have calmed somewhat. 

This is why I asked about jumping today. 

We got our scale tonight, it's too cold to use so can't use it til tomorrow.  I don't think my brain can handle learning right now anyway. 

After reading this, do u still think it's because of the way I'm cutting? I am concerned as I've Bern going thru this since the beginning but the symptoms are getting faster and harder. Paradoxical reaction is very similar to this. 

I hope your available tomorrow evening to help me with the scale. I'm not good with numbers and my mind is so blown I don't know if I can handle typing, waiting etc. I will post tomorrow when I ready for help with the scale if all goes well. If not, idk, I may go to er. But I will let someone know if I do.

 

[[ns...]]

3 minutes ago, [[n...] said:

Hi winters sun, thank u for your response.  After reading jelly baby response I'm clearly not in interdose withdrawal. It is strange the way this has played out over the course of tapering.  I was Taking lorazepam, it beans making have severe anxiety and panic attacks, I had to taper. I took 1mg 4x per day. I'm still on the same time slots for my doses. We used valuim for the 1st 2mg, couldn't tolerate the valuim. From there, started cutting small cuts from each pill. Cut in half, cut half into 2 quarters and took small piece off of one quarter. Cut several the same way to compare.  At that time I didn't know that there was a filler in the pills. Brighterday later explained this and that I needed a scale. Bought the wrong scale, it was complicated. She gave me a link to another one, we thought we ordered it but didn't finish transaction. So, decided to continue very carefully cutting. 

I have never stabilized, this could be why but on the other hand I couldn't stand to taken them at a whole pill. I get the same reaction as I did then when I take a dose with a cut. It's more intense however but it's still the same feelings, with many withdrawal symptoms that have turned excruciating. 

It appears you have experienced this reaction. So u understand. 

I'm sure u read my posts from today and yesterday. I am having miserable symptoms. I woke up feeling great at 530 am but took the dose,felt terrible. No sleep. Finally calmed down at about 10 am, forgot dose again at 11am,11:15 I took the dose, this was a nightmare! Within 10 minutes I was so symptomatic that I was shaking, being squeezed inside and out throughout my body. Crying uncontrollably and thoughtni might have a fit! My husband had to hold me tight. So I went thru it most of the day. 4pm, started feeling ok, took dose before dinner st 5pm, horrible again. I could barely direct my fork to my.mouth due to hyper excitability, lack of coordination and shaking, my bowel was in spasms and my entire core was ripping apart it seemed, stinging everywhere, evert symptomypu cam imagine. Within 10 minutes of taking that dose this us what I got.

So after dinner I sat on the sofa and couldn't move, I used my phone to talk to Darlene here, she kept me distracted. Then I felt drunk, very drunk, I still feel drunk. But the symptoms have calmed somewhat. 

This is why I asked about jumping today. 

We got our scale tonight, it's too cold to use so can't use it til tomorrow.  I don't think my brain can handle learning right now anyway. 

After reading this, do u still think it's because of the way I'm cutting? I am concerned as I've Bern going thru this since the beginning but the symptoms are getting faster and harder. Paradoxical reaction is very similar to this. 

I hope your available tomorrow evening to help me with the scale. I'm not good with numbers and my mind is so blown I don't know if I can handle typing, waiting etc. I will post tomorrow when I ready for help with the scale if all goes well. If not, idk, I may go to er. But I will let someone know if I do.

Also. At times the symptoms start before I take the dose but that's been kind of a new thing. Like 15 30 minutes before my dose, that may be where u got the interdose withdrawl account because I asked today what it meant

[Guest [...]]

Do you think you may becoming increasingly anxious the closer you get to your dose because you fear it?  

[Guest [...]]

Your nervous system is extremely sensitive, so the more anxious you become the more your symptoms will intensify, not just the anxiety

[[ns...]]

Just now, [[W...] said:

Do you think you may becoming increasingly anxious the closer you get to your dose because you fear it?  

Well most of the time I don't get anxious before. It's after i take it. But I do know that tonight I did not want to take it at all. So I was definitely anxious after what happened today. I'm not processing foods the way I should, I'm allergic to everything it seems. I've noticed an allergy response as well when I take the dose. Sinus drain, sneezing at times, numb tongue, lips and mouth and swollen throat. My.metabolism is really fast, and I'm getting malnourished 

[[ns...]]

24 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

Your nervous system is extremely sensitive, so the more anxious you become the more your symptoms will intensify, not just the anxiety

Yes, it's of course intense anxiety but worse. I'm thinking I may not be processing the drug properly due to my metabolism and whatever is going with my system. Histamine intolerance is becoming a problem. Thus happens with all medications I take, they pull a reverse on me. Vit, supplements make me sick.

I forgot to answer your question.  I've been at thus dose for a month

Edited January 25 by [ns...]
Addition

[Guest [...]]

I have no doubt dosing is having a paradoxical effect and the fear around that will also be having an affect on your NS. All of this together will be affecting every system in your body, including digestive system. I totally understand the reactions… the more unstable I become, the more reactive my body becomes to foods, supplements, and medications. I could no longer even use toothpaste at one stage. That’s what fear/increased destabilisation does to me.

Your system is in a state of high stress which destabilises mast cells. It perceives danger at every turn, goes into protective mode. It triggers the body’s natural inflammatory response and releases the body’s own stores of histamine which flood the body. This is different than reacting to histamine in food. This is why many talk about the link between benzo withdrawal and MCAS (mast cell activation syndrome). 

It’s a difficult situation, but I still think the best option is to taper because if you c/t, the increased stress on your system will destabilise your mast cells even more because of the acute withdrawal. 

If you are concerned about your weight, I would look into a healthy protein formula (shake) such as pea protein to help add calories and take some pressure off your struggling digestive system. 

We’ll talk more about this and your scales when you are rested and/or feel up to it. 

Try and get some sleep, @[ns...] 🫂