something to consider

[[...]]

hello. my name is nick. this is my first post. i was on a daily low dose of valium for sleep for 20 years. i did a gradual taper for eight months and jumped off when i was down to .165mg per day. my taper was pretty consistent in that i would make a small cut and get hit pretty hard for about two weeks. i would then feel pretty decent for a week and then make another cut. i jumped off in december of 2021. my protracted withdrawal symptoms are still pretty severe. after reading many many posts on benzobuddies and other forums, i have formed an opinion regarding what i believe is a concerning situation. i am starting to believe that i have suffered permanent brain damage. and while this site in large part has many posters who continually state that "everybody heals", i have become skeptical. hopefully many users may have the good fortune to experience substantial recovery. however, i believe that many users may not be so lucky. so why then is there so many posters who continually state that everybody heals? i believe that some of these posters may be employed by the drug companies who want to avoid the strong potential for substantive litigation from benzo users.

[[Pa...]]

Hello @[...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I’m sorry to hear you’re still suffering, and I don’t blame you for doubting your ability to recover.  I usually try to be careful with my words, I’ll typically say, we can recover, not we will because I truly don’t know if everyone can or will.

I can say with confidence that BenzoBuddies doesn’t have anyone employed by the pharmaceutical companies posing as members spewing misinformation and I know this because we’re just not that important to those massive companies.  We pose no threat to them, we’ve been here for 20 years and we haven’t hurt their business one bit, the worlds use of benzodiazepines  keeps growing no matter what we say or what we do.  

I hope you recover, I hope someday you can look back on this and think to yourself, I was wrong.

Pamster

[[...]]

hello pamster...thank you for your reply. i think the number of posts that you have made (63,700) says a lot. and i do not think the drug companies are concerned about having a fall off in the number of benzo users. i think their concern may center more around the potential litigation of people who have experienced terrible (and possibly permanent) physical and emotional damage associated with benzo usage. if there was a flood of litigation associated with benzo use, then the prescribing of benzos would take a hit. so the posters mentioned in my first post would imo work to diffuse the kind of thinking that might be associated with pursuing litigation.

Edited January 19 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

The number of posts I’ve made while being a member of this forum isn’t 63K, I had around 6000 before we moved to the new platform last year but when we moved, it jumped to 60,000, not sure how or why that happened.

As for litigation, that subject has been discussed often here, you might use the search function to see what others have said.  I don’t recall any BenzoBuddies members being successful in their efforts but it seems like I read of someone last year who was. 

I’ve never seen anyone actively discourage those who have talked about litigation, the discouragement is built into the system, and its stacked against us, they have too much power, too much money and they have all the time in the world.  The only way I see benzodiazepine lawsuits successfully changing how doctors prescribe is if the government gets involved like they did with the opioids, that actually prompted changes in how doctors prescribed. 

[[...]]

what i am suggesting is the possibility of posters on this site who are employed by benzo drug companies with a mandate to provide disinformation so as to obfuscate and diffuse the realities of the potential physical and emotional injuries associated with benzo use. imo it is only a question of time before the lawsuits begin. it is my understanding that in 2021 four drug companies paid a $26 billion settlement to resolve thousands of lawsuits associated the the opiate crisis. pamster, you indicate that "the discouragement is built into the system." i am suggesting that this site, if frequented by drug co operatives, may actually be part of "the system." 

Edited January 20 by [...]

[[Ho...]]

Hi @[...],

 

What you're suggesting is highly unlikely. I know you think it's a distinct and likely possibility. I have a feeling you might suspect me or anyone who answers your post of being a shill for a pharmaceutical company. 

I'm not.

Here's the thing. There is no benzo crisis for the drug companies to diffuse. Apparently it's extremely hard to prove our damage is from stopping a benzo. Doctors never believe what we're experiencing is from a benzo. All of my tests came back and proved that I must be crazy, because vitals, bloodwork and other tests show nothing. No issues at all. I'm really healthy. 

Look, I don't care if you want to believe in some grand conspiracy or not. But I am concerned that you're shooting yourself in the foot. You need support or you wouldn't be here. You're worried that you'll never heal.

From what I can glean, most people do heal. There are plenty of people on this website who can show you that not everyone heals. There are more that can show you most do. When all this mess started for me, I was assigned a psychiatrist to prescribe antidepressants (none of which worked, I'm sorry to say.) She told me about an 80-year-old patient of hers—a former attorney—who she got off clonazepam in a year. She said that very proudly. Several months later she added that she'd recently spoken with him and he said it took three years from him to feel like himself again.  I felt horrible for him. But he did get back to himself, after 30 years of a LOT of clonazepam; 6 mg in the end.

Anyway, I don't think a pharmaceutical company hired her to say that. It's not exactly encouraging. Still, if an 80 year old can get better, so can you. So can I.

A non-pharmaceutical well-wisher,

HCHC 

[[...]]

we are living in an era which many are calling the era of post truth. i am not here for support. i am trying to shine a light on the extensive disinformation that i have seen on this site because people struggling with benzo damage deserve/require truth and not patronizing deception (which is anything but supportive). on the contrary, it is disrespectful and detrimental. that a poster on this site who i have no history with professes to know what i am looking for and what i need is presumptuous and sad. many thanks to hc and pamster for helping to support my thesis. 

Edited January 20 by [...]

[[Co...]]

[[Si...]]

@[Co...] do you really think the idea everyone gets better is probably inaccurate?  

[[Co...]]

56 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

@[Co...] do you really think the idea everyone gets better is probably inaccurate?  

Is there a medication which does not cause permanent damage to at least a very small number of people?

It is very difficult to apply numbers to this since there is no agreed upon criteria for assessing permanent damage, and certainly no definitive test. We also have to factor in that for a small number of people, the reasons for their problems might have other causes.

So: I do not know, and that's why I used 'probably inaccurate' in my comment. Like with medicine and pharmacology in general, there are large unknowns and inexactitudes.

Personally, I do not feel that I have recovered 100% from my use of benzodiazepines. But that's a sample of one, and no definitive test is available. I know that since withdrawal (21 years ago) I have been intolerant of alcohol, which is suggestive on some (permanent) change. But having said this, and although it took many years, I do feel much better that I did in those first few years. Mine was a gradual improvement, over maybe 10 years or more.

[[WU...]]

Does anyone honestly have litigation in their heads while they are still recovering? I think most, if not all, just want to get better as their priority.  Would a large sum of money help in any way? Yeah I know it looks like Big Pharma are "getting away with it" if we don't sue them but we would also need to sue the doctors and the nurse practitioners who blindly reissued further prescriptions way beyond the guidelines. Basically we'd have to sue the pants off the whole medical profession as well as the govt for not putting a stop to it.  

As for saying some people don't get better, well not everyone heals perfectly from a broken ankle either. Some people are allergic to certain antibiotics and find out too late and get hammered. Some people will have other things going on that affect recovery from any kind of illness or accident. But it does appear to be a very, very, small minority so I am fine with people saying "everyone heals" though to be absolutely accurate they could qualify the statement with "except for a tiny minority"

If big pharma legal bods are on the site, maybe they are, maybe they're not, I honestly couldn't care less at this stage !  

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Healthy discourse is beneficial.  This topic does not appear to be healthy or beneficial.

The intent of the OP was not to discuss concerns regarding full recovery.  The OP’s intent was/is to support theories of infiltration of this site for the purpose of ‘gaslighting’, for lack of a better term, those injured into a form of submission and passiveness via false hopes of recovery.  

It is now spilling over into the topic of ‘do we all heal’ due to the fear this thread has triggered.  This was never the OP’s purpose in creating this post.  We are all so vulnerable.  Sometimes rising above takes more energy than we can afford to give.  Sometimes, especially during this, walking away is the most sensible/healthy option.

 

[[Co...]]

1 hour ago, [[F...] said:

The OP’s intent was/is to support theories of infiltration of this site for the purpose of ‘gaslighting’, for lack of a better term

Yeah - not gaslighting. I have no reason to doubt the OP's intention for starting this thread. And although I totally disagree with @[...], I do not suspect any malintent, such as gaslighting. He's just wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Edit: Seems that I misunderstood @[Fa...]'s post.

Edited January 20 by [Co...]
Typo/clarification.

[[Fa...]]

@[Co...]  Was not referring to the OP gaslighting…my comment was directed at those he feels may be on the site misinforming members for underhanded reasons.  Gaslighting still not ‘correct’ word but best I can do with what I’m working with.

[Guest [...]]

@[...]

I am truly sorry to hear that you are still quite symptomatic at 2 yrs out… I know it must be very distressing. It is distressing for many. However, it doesn’t mean you won’t eventually heal over a longer period. You have only just entered the point whereby you may consider yourself protracted, and there’s nothing to say that in 6 to 12 months you won’t look back on this post as a premature venting of fear, anger and frustration. Potentially, it could take even longer for you to near full recovery, but regardless of how long it takes to recover, how can anyone claim at 2 years that the damage is permanent? 

You are not the first, and you will not be the last to vent such a build up of fear and frustration on the forum. We do understand, but please be mindful that when you make premature claims that your brain damage from the medications is permanent, you send an enormous surge of fearful emotion through those going through their own very difficult taper or recovery, and that simply is NOT helpful to any member here. 

Wishing you all the best in your continued recovery. 

[[Co...]]

43 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Yeah - not gaslighting. I have no reason to doubt the OP's intention for starting this thread. And although I totally disagree with @[...], I do not suspect any malintent, such as gaslighting. He's just wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

For clarity, I edited the above for an important word omission. oops. Apologies to @[...].

[[Co...]]

24 minutes ago, [[F...] said:

@[Co...]  Was not referring to the OP gaslighting…my comment was directed at those he feels may be on the site misinforming members for underhanded reasons.  Gaslighting still not ‘correct’ word but best I can do with what I’m working with.

Ah. I see. Thank you for posting the correction.

[Guest [...]]

@[WU...]

Some doctors are being sued, although, maybe that’s a stretch as I’m basing this off one case which was settled… 

Some members may be familiar with Chris Cornell (singer/songwriter, Soundgarden frontman) .

His wife brought a lawsuit against the doctor for prescribing his Ativan (lorazepam). Unfortunately the case was settled out of court (for an undisclosed amount) with very little publicity, . 

The question I ask is this… was the pharmaceutical industry in some way behind the undisclosed payment to avoid any further unwanted publicity surrounding benzodiazepine dangers? 

Maybe not!

But, I guess we’ll never know. 

I just wish it had’ve played out very publicly. 

I find it just extraordinary that the several investigative autopsy shows still didn’t link it directly to the Ativan. But, again… lack of knowledge in the medical community. 
 

[Guest [...]]

More importantly…

The sense I get from everything I’ve read and watched about the above case is that Chris had no idea the Ativan had turned on him badly, and if only he’d had support and knowledge around him… such as this forum, things may have been different… he may well have found his way through the darkness. 

Edited January 20 by Guest

[[...]]

wow. sad that the bb trolls have come out in force to support the gaslighting of members rather than treating the members with care and respect by providing them with honest information and feedback. interesting that bb separates/ isolates the protracted members. i can't imagine why. oh wait

Edited January 20 by [...]

[[Co...]]

[[Pi...]]

Getting money isn't going to cure anyone. What ever your personal beliefs every dog including Big Pharma has their day. None of us lives forever. Besides every drug has lawsuits already priced in. They don't care what you do. Forget them and focus on getting well.

[[...]]

@colin. how ironic that with each of your posts you have basically provided confirmation of the concerns i have raised. 

[[...]]

@pinster. money talks and bull... walks. big pharma settled lawsuits regarding opiates for $26 bilion. and you contend they don't care. nice try. and for the victims and their families who successfully sue drugs companies, they can use the funds for care of the injured and as compensation for lost wages and pain and suffering. moreover, successful lawsuits would greatly motivate the prescribers and the manufacturers to change their practices toot sweet. remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. 

Edited January 20 by [...]

[[Pi...]]

Agreed. But there is so much money here t be made getting us addicted to their products they view this as overhead. And then there is the lawyers who live off this stuff. It's all negative. I need to focus on what heals me. I can always make money. Done that all my life. Just my opinion and you are entitled to yours. No worries.