Dr Witt-Doerring's taper clinic

[[WU...]]

21 minutes ago, [[[...] said:

@[dj...]"If I had found a Dr Witt-Doering 5 years ago..."

The information has been known about since way back in the 70's and 80's. The BBC even did a documentary about it back then which is on YT. I admit I didn't know all this until the last year or so, but info is all freely available including the Ashton Manual and interviews with Dr Ashton also on YT. Isn't that good enough for friends and family for validation purposes?  What I object to is the huge cost these new doctors are charging, kind of reeks of exploitation.  OK if you can afford it but most people can't.

[[dj...]]

12 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

The information has been known about since way back in the 70's and 80's. The BBC even did a documentary about it back then which is on YT. I admit I didn't know all this until the last year or so, but info is all freely available including the Ashton Manual and interviews with Dr Ashton also on YT. Isn't that good enough for friends and family for validation purposes?  What I object to is the huge cost these new doctors are charging, kind of reeks of exploitation.  OK if you can afford it but most people can't.

Are you in the UK or the US?  Doctors have known benzos are addictive yes. But 98% of the docs in the US have no clue how bad it can get for the really unfortunate.  They are all of the mentality that you go through normal withdrawal and it’s over in a few weeks or months.  This is true for the overwhelming majority of people but not for some. 
 

Most doctors will laugh you out of the building if you’re 18 months off benzos and still dealing with dozens of debilitating symptoms.  But they’re also not helpful finding anything else to explain it.  
 

No, the internet is not enough for some people, especially when they’re getting a conflicting opinion from doctors.  A lot of people are more likely to side with doctors.  
 

The primary reason it’s so expensive for the patient is because it’s not covered by insurance.  These doctors aren’t charging anything greater than what most doctors charged.  It’s just that insurance isn’t covering anything. And that’s more on the insurance companies than the doctor.  

[[WU...]]

I think the doctors in the UK and US use withdrawal as an excuse to prescribe a host of other medication in the form of anti-depressants and anything else they can prescribe to keep you in the medical system. Most of them can't be trusted to stick a plaster on the right way,  such is my low opinion of them these days.  I may change my mind when I start to feel better !

It really is awful the way we are treated after suffering so much already. And because we are so distressed we look like mental health cases, when the reality is our brains have been altered!  

Anyway back to Wittering.....  He has spotted a very lucrative gap in the market and good luck to him I suppose. He came out of the FDA which is probably where he did his market research ! Seeing massive increases in prescribing all these drugs and seeing an opportunity. Well why not if people are prepared to pay. And not covered by insurance either, as God forbid the floodgates would open!

 

 

[[Ra...]]

On 18/01/2024 at 14:52, [[T...] said:

He seems a bit shady / bandwagoner. 5 figures for him to tell you what’s in the Ashton manual. I’m in Canada and he did not even reply to an email. Sounds like a money grab rather than a kind caring doctor. 

I’m also in Canada and didn’t get a reply email. Oh well.

[[ns...]]

After hearing how he helped a family with a 4 yr old little boy to get him stabilized, I'm thinking he might not be so bad. Who knows. But no he only practices in the USA 

Ns

[[Bu...]]

I am in Canada and working with one of his tapering coaches. She is fantastic and is helping me a lot 

Edited January 22 by [Bu...]

[[Ra...]]

On 19/01/2024 at 07:08, [[M...] said:

I became a patient last summer, and they stabilized me from debilitating interdose withdrawals i was having, which i am very grateful for, because my previous GP cut me off as a patient and told me to go to detox, because she didn’t know how to handle the interdose withdrawals. Witt-Doering did. 

Regarding expenses, it was a little over 1K to register, and now I pay $325 for each 30 minute video consultation, which is usually once a month or once every 3 months. They did tell me before I registered that it could cost up to 5 figures (i think 10K), depending on how long I stayed with them, but that was probably max. I cannot speak for the current/new program though, as things seemed to have changed, since I initially joined.

I do feel like Dr Josef is a bit of a rare breed, as he believes his patients and does truly make the program as flexible as possible, and does everything he can to make sure you’re functional. That has been my personal experience, even though i think there are areas where things could be improved, and there have been times where i have been confused by what i was supposed to do, but he’s always been on my side, and has even fought pharmacies when i specifically asked for Valium in half pills and half liquid. I quickly learned that pharmacists are just as bad as doctors when it comes to this kind of stuff, and  won’t accommodate the patient, but Dr Josef spent a lot of time sorting this out. He even called me from his personal cell number when he was on vacation when i was having difficulty with many pharmacists. Many of you may not know this, but more and more pharmacists are falling into a state of benzo hysteria due to the opioid epidemic, and can be an absolute pain in the ass to work with. Again, this is where Dr Josef comes in. 

Also, keep in mind that Dr Josef is basically a one man show when it comes to the tapering process and communication process, as he personally deals with all his clients directly, so even if he charged less, there would probably be a 10 year waitlist just to become a patient. It’s not like it’s a grand scale clinic loaded with trained and experienced doctors, unfortunately. He does have coaches and other staff who need to be paid, so Im sure that’s where part of the expense goes. 

I cannot speak for this new business model, but from what i know about Dr Josef, and my personal experience with him, it’s probably worth it, especially when you find yourself beaten down by the healthcare system, and can’t find a doctor who even believes what you’re going through. 

So even though we have many online resources, what we often don’t have is a doctor who is experienced in properly tapering people off their benzo, or stabilizing them during difficult moments. That’s where Dr Josef comes in. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? So far, it has been for me, and i feel like id be lost without him.

So “5 figures for what the Ashton method already tells us” would be heavily downplaying what Dr Josef actually does. 

And as far as the whole Jordan Peterson thing goes, well,  that’s just a silly argument, as he found himself in tolerance withdrawal, and at that point you’re probably screwed no matter what doctor you see, hence the induced coma. I find that to be a rather odd argument in order to trash Dr Josef. Not to mention that Jordan Peterson probably never would have found himself in that situation if he had a doctor like Dr Josef to begin with.

Time will tell what kind of a doctor Dr Josef truly is as more and more people join his program, but again, i personally feel like i’d be lost without him. 
 

 

@[Md...] does he see online patient out of state?? 

How much he charges for online calls??? 

[[Md...]]

8 hours ago, [[R...] said:

@[Md...] does he see online patient out of state?? 

How much he charges for online calls??? 

He only sees out of state patients in a handful of states (can’t remember them all). 

I honestly don’t know what he charges now, because the program he runs now is different than the one I signed up for. All i know is that his current program starts at 5 figures. 

Unfortunately, i don’t think he’s doing anything extraordinary to warrant this type of money, it’s just that he’s far more educated and experienced than the average psychiatrist when it comes to tapering, and what he does should be common knowledge amongst all doctors, but it’s not. That’s what has made him valuable to me. 

[[Ra...]]

21 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

He only sees out of state patients in a handful of states (can’t remember them all). 

I honestly don’t know what he charges now, because the program he runs now is different than the one I signed up for. All i know is that his current program starts at 5 figures. 

Unfortunately, i don’t think he’s doing anything extraordinary to warrant this type of money, it’s just that he’s far more educated and experienced than the average psychiatrist when it comes to tapering, and what he does should be common knowledge amongst all doctors, but it’s not. That’s what has made him valuable to me. 

@[Md...]  5 figures....too much

its mean only rich peopla have right to live. 

[[Md...]]

1 hour ago, [[R...] said:

@[Md...]  5 figures....too much

its mean only rich peopla have right to live. 

I’m not quite sure what Dr Josef’s prices have anything to do with people having the right to “live”. Seems like a very off balanced correlation there. Even if his prices were affordable for most, there would probably be a years long waitlist. 

But in attempt to at least validate what I think you’re trying to imply, I do agree that healthcare in general (at least in the US) is ridiculously expensive with or without insurance, and it usually is the people with money who don’t have to worry about these kinds of expenses.

In the meantime, Dr Josef has uploaded several helpful videos on his channel to help educate people on tapering methods, which is a lot more than what my own doctors in the past have done. 

 

 

Edited March 6 by [Md...]

[[Ra...]]

48 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

But in attempt to at least validate what I think you’re trying to imply, I do agree that healthcare in general (at least in the US) is ridiculously expensive with or without insurance, and it usually is the people with money who don’t have to worry about these kinds of expenses.

@[Md...] yes,  this i want to say. 

recently i contact a popular benzo withdrawals coach(i will not mention her/his name) and ask her to reduction in charges,but she/his immediately refused me to help. 

Edited March 6 by [Ra...]

[[Co...]]

It is all business. They cannot help for free. No one ever does. I don't think money matters here. I mean it is helpful but in my cortisone brain injury, my family paid a lot in expensive tests, doctor visits, thousands in therapy and I still ended up on a benzo for no reason and against my wishes.

 

Edited March 7 by [Co...]

[[Ri...]]

Dr Witt-Doerring states in his information video the cost is approximately what a 2-3 month stay at a real good rehab center would be. He does prescribe all the medication, etc.

[[Co...]]

I think if you need a doctor advocating for you and you are in the US, it is probably worth it unless you have one that is free to prescribe. My doctor in Belgium was a real mean one. She gave this against my wishes and then was not willing to prescribe me more to help me taper obviously and told my family to get me committed. Then I had to find another doctor willing to prescribe which (un)fortunately was really not difficult at all. So I just doctor shopped and had like 3 different doctors prescribing me and I bought 4 bottles of rivotril at once because many pharmacies did not have enough.

[[Ra...]]

11 hours ago, [[C...] said:

It is all business. They cannot help for free. No one ever does. I don't think money matters here. I mean it is helpful but in my cortisone brain injury, my family paid a lot in expensive tests, doctor visits, thousands in therapy and I still ended up on a benzo for no reason and against my wishes.

@[Co...] so sorry for your sufferings. Wish you good health. 

Cocodot for some people money means alot. They can't afford doctors, but they wanted to be cure ,to live.For poor people money is a hope. Poor man thinks if he had money ,he could get checked a doctor and get well.

 Then it is his fate ,he will be fine or not, but he does not regret that i do not go to doctor. 

[[Ra...]]

6 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I think if you need a doctor advocating for you and you are in the US, it is probably worth it unless you have one that is free to prescribe. My doctor in Belgium was a real mean one. She gave this against my wishes and then was not willing to prescribe me more to help me taper obviously and told my family to get me committed. Then I had to find another doctor willing to prescribe which (un)fortunately was really not difficult at all. So I just doctor shopped and had like 3 different doctors prescribing me and I bought 4 bottles of rivotril at once because many pharmacies did not have enough.

@[Co...] how are you now??

[[PE...]]

Were I live there is uncommon that people go to private doctors. The standard is the same. We pay 25usd for a doctors appointment whatever the doctor has as he's speciality. Therapist or oncology. It all goes under the same base and cost. After 5 visits you get a free card. Same with medicine. You just pay the maximum witch is 200 usd per year. You can choose brands. I always take the cheapest what ever medicine it is.

I went to a private practice once. They had nicer shairs..but not worth paying for that trivial detail.

Same with dental care.

I think it's the same in many European countries. 

 

[[WU...]]

1 hour ago, [[n...] said:

I went to a private practice once. They had nicer shairs

See they know that nicer chairs makes all the difference! Actually it is even madder here we see the same consultants in the NHS as we would see in the private sector. They literally spend their time running backwards and forwards between the two public and private, there is no difference except people's perception that they are getting something better if they pay extra for it.

[[Ra...]]

31 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

See they know that nicer chairs makes all the difference! Actually it is even madder here we see the same consultants in the NHS as we would see in the private sector. They literally spend their time running backwards and forwards between the two public and private, there is no difference except people's perception that they are getting something better if they pay extra for it.

@[WU...] my mother cancer treatment completed in one of the most expensive cancer hospital,her treatment continued for 5 years, we lost every thing,  but unfortunately after one year her cancer came back in, now she is battling brain mets cancer.  

[[PE...]]

41 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

See they know that nicer chairs makes all the difference! Actually it is even madder here we see the same consultants in the NHS as we would see in the private sector. They literally spend their time running backwards and forwards between the two public and private, there is no difference except people's perception that they are getting something better if they pay extra for it.

Lol!

all is good then

[[PE...]]

7 minutes ago, [[R...] said:

@[WU...] my mother cancer treatment completed in one of the most expensive cancer hospital,her treatment continued for 5 years, we lost every thing,  but unfortunately after one year her cancer came back in, now she is battling brain mets cancer.  

Oh.. sorry to hear that..

[[WU...]]

 @[Ra...] wish you well with your mother

[[Co...]]

@[Ra...] off the poison but in extremely bad shape. Very unlucky short term user. Threw my life away over therapy and a bad dad. 

[[Ra...]]

Just now, [[C...] said:

@[Ra...] off the poison but in extremely bad shape. Very unlucky short term user. Threw my life away over therapy and a bad dad. 

@[Co...] you will heal soon. 

Wish you best health. 

[[Co...]]

Thanks Rabeeca but unfortunately I did a serious stroke on this medication. There are many parts of my brain that are completely gone. Also on MRIs. Before I had many symptoms and it was already very serious but it improved in my opinion fast, everything was acute and changeable, I could physically do anything and I could distract nicely, have fun, work fulltime, etc. Just hoping to heal. But now, I am very bedridden, lost all visualisation, memory, concentration, physically very very ill, complete anhedonia, etc. I just had an acute concussion from cortisone, I was doing acupuncture and it was amazing. 

Edited March 7 by [Co...]