Turmoil, tolerance withdrawal, what should I do next?

[[an...]]

Hi all. I recently reinstated and updosed my Valium from a harsh cold turkey. If you can look at my past posts that would be helpful. It’s too much to explain at the moment. 
 

I have been a daily Valium user for over a year now. I only used it daily because my psychiatrist recommended it and I really regret listening. I got cut off CT as I was kicked from my psychiatrist’s care and left with 0 refills. I started at 20 mg in August of 2022. I got down to 5 mg for a few months and that’s what I was cold turkey’d from. 
 

I have a myriad of symptoms. When I cold turkey’d I had twitching, trembling, sweating profusely, diarrhea, no appetite, insomnia, intrusive thoughts, absolute panic, amongst other things. 
 

I reinstated on 5 mg and it was not providing any relief at all. So my psychiatrist advised me to updose to 15 mg. I was hesitant but did it as I was completely non functional. I ended up getting some relief for a week or two. 
 

Well ever since a week ago, every single one of those symptoms have came back along with ear ringing, I cannot calm down, my oxygen keeps dropping to 91 at the lowest. At the highest it’ll be 95. I have hypertension and my usual blood pressure medication isn’t helping bring it down. I’m still taking 15 mg and it’s not providing the relief it was once was. 
 

I updosed the 13th of December. I feel my only options now are to taper off since it’s not working. My psychiatrist only provides me with 15 pills of 5 mg and 15 pills of 10 mg and I don’t get my refill until the day I run out. I take my morning dose earlier than they have it in so it messes me up. 
 

I have a physical dependency to the diazepam. I’m not addicted, at least I don’t think I am. I’ve always taken as directed, never used more than necessary. I ended up being sent to a crisis stabilization unit Thursday and I was assigned an addiction doctor that was going to detox me that night and give me a med that is used for alcohol withdrawals (not sure of the name), change me from diazepam to lorazepam (they said they didn’t have diazepam, they asked if I brought my own medication as they didn’t have the diazepam),  they were nice and all but I didn’t like the plan they had in mind. I liked the idea of being monitored but switching benzos and crossing over to Ativan seemed too scary along with the addition of other meds. 

Im just at a loss of what to do now. I can’t fall back asleep in the morning when I’m alone and my fiancé & kids leave for school and work. I sweat so badly and have a panic attack. My psychiatrist seems to be clueless about benzo withdrawal and tapering. He believes im not even in withdrawal and just wants to updose me which I don’t want to do anymore since the relief barely lasted. Advice would be appreciated. I know im a complicated case. I just want to be able to function again. I’m so tired of being alone too. 
EDIT- I have also been self medicating with a small amount of CBD oil and 10 mg liquid melatonin to fall asleep. I know it’s not good but it’s the only thing that’s helped. I’m going to have to taper off of those too.

Edited January 13 by [an...]
Forgot to add information

[[or...]]

Hi @[an...]

Please help me out here and tell me exactly what dose you are taking starting today's dose, of what benzo(s).  Let's start from scratch ok?  I am new, well 9 months into my taper, but more people will come by here that know way more than I do. I wanted you to know I am here for now and will help if I can.  I know you feel scattered right now, but let's take some baby-steps, you and I ok? oregonlady,

Edited January 13 by [or...]

[[an...]]

Hi @[or...] thank you so much for your response. So recently since December 13th or so I’ve been on 15 mg of diazepam. 5 mg in the morning and 10 mg at night. Thank you for being here for me. 🥹 I’ve been feeling quite hopeless. 

[[or...]]

Ok, so you have enough to taper for awhile, yes?  Or did you say when you run out, they won't subscribe another month? Is that correct, or if not, then we have time to get you on a slower taper if you decide that is what you want.  I can't recommend it more, I'm doing quite well on mine

You're welcome btw, but you are helping me as well Ana

Edited January 13 by [or...]

[[or...]]

One thing I read in the Ashton Manual is that you are on a benzo that has a very, long Half-life.  This is a positive when it comes to tapering.  I'll put a little blurb here for you as I want you to know that this is very hopeful for you Ana.

Ashton Manual quote, Page 32

Quote

For people withdrawing from these potent, short-acting drugs it is advisable to switch to a
long-acting, slowly metabolised benzodiazepine such as diazepam. Diazepam (Valium) is one of
the most slowly eliminated benzodiazepines. It has a half-life of up to 200 hours, which means
that the blood level for each dose falls by only half in about 8.3 days.

 

[[an...]]

@[or...] I don’t unfortunately. I only get 15 pills each time my prescription gets refilled. 15 5 mg pills and 15 10 mg pills.

i would love to do a slow taper but i dont think I have enough pills to get it started. My psychiatrist used to give me 30 pills instead of 15 so I don’t know what changed there. 
 

I don’t want to slow taper until I get a good amount of pills but not sure if that’ll happen. There are no other psychiatrist’s in my area. If I tell him I’m gonna taper he most likely will give me even less than 15 so I’m going to tell him I’m not trying to taper. 

At which rate are you tapering at? How are you doing it? I’m completely confused. I don’t know how to go about this at all and neither does my doctor. I’m just suffering everyday. I woke up so many times last night and couldn’t go back to sleep this morning. I keep feeling panic and my oxygen keeps going low when I try to close my eyes and drift off and my body jolts. 

 

[[or...]]

But this can work out because of the longer half-life of your pills.  Are you saying that you can keep getting 15 of each pill "dose", the 15mg and 5mg each 15 days?

I'm just saying, as long as you have a prescription, even for only 15 days, you don't have to cold turkey which no one around I know, recommends Cold Turkey, you can taper Ana.

Edited January 13 by [or...]

[[or...]]

I am doing good even though I did a cold turkey at one time, and then I was weaned off too fast by my MD 3 Summers ago, then reinstated.  I found BB 9 months ago, and they've taught me how to taper.  Please do stick with BB, and just go with where you are right now as far as learning a taper.  You at least have a prescription so lets figure it out ok?  You are better off with the pills you can taper off of, then having none, right?

We all have wd sxs, that is not something I've avoided but wd sxs are just a sign of the benzo leaving your body.  If we can get it to leave as slowly as possible with your prescriptions, it can work for you There's ton's of hope Ana!!

 

[[an...]]

@[or...] yes that’s exactly what I meant but it’s not 5 mg and 15 mg, it’s 5 mg and 10 mg so I’m on 15 mg right now in total. I definitely do not want to cold turkey again. The symptoms are just so scary and make me feel like the worst is going to happen to me. I wonder how I can taper or get a plan. Thank you @[or...] once again for responding. The nurse at the stabilization center told me I’m a very complex case. 

[[ka...]]

@[an...] I totally understand what you’re going through.  I just weened myself down way too fast not realizing I was to hold my cuts out for a few weeks and ended up in literal hell and have gone back up to my original dose since.  I do worry in a few weeks I’ll be back to where I was even though I’ve gone back up.  These symptoms are so frightening and debilitating. I’m hoping we both can stabilize over time!   What do we do if these harsh symptoms return even after updosing? 

[[an...]]

Hello @[ka...] I am so sorry you’re suffering too. I hope that even a little bit of relief stays with you. Be weary of tolerance. I didn’t think it would happen as fast as it did and now I’m stuck wondering what to do just like you asked at the end “what do we do if these harsh symptoms return even after updosing?” I’m trying to figure that out myself. That’s the same situation I’m in. I updose from 5 to 15, felt good for a while, and now I’m having the harsh symptoms again. I don’t know if it’s some kind of weird wave or if it’s tolerance but I haven’t felt any relief again. I hope we both stabilize too. That’s the goal. 

[[ka...]]

@[an...] yes it is!!  I have to work and I’m still trying to level after updosing and frankly I dunno what I’m going to do.  I am at least getting some sleep at night but still unable to eat very weak and shaky anxious you know how it goes.  

[[an...]]

@[ka...] it’s a good sign you’re sleeping well. I ended up getting better rest as well for a little bit until the tolerance kicked in. Now I’m waking up every few hours at night and can’t go back to sleep in the morning or nap throughout the day. The other symptoms should fade. As for how long the relief will last? That’s not a question I can answer but you can become tolerant quite quickly so don’t hesitate to reach out to me if that happens to you! Yes I’m experiencing all of those symptoms too. I choked on water last night. I’ve been relying on ensure drinks mostly for “food.” It’s been scary but I’m still here alive and breathing and that’s one of the main things keeping me going besides my kids and my fiancé. I’m 22 years old and have two little ones to look after. They go to school already so I’m alone throughout the day. I sadly don’t have a job so it’s really hard to distract myself. I really only feel “ok” when someone is with me because I know someone can call 911 if anything bad happens. Praying for you and all of us that are struggling. Keep us posted. <3

[[ka...]]

@[an...] Praying for you (for all of us) as well.  I managed to get a cup of soup down and some pedialyte.  I also have been relying on the ensure as well.  My mom texted me photos of the breakfast she made today and it made me gag and any other time I’d be all over it!  I’m here for you if you need someone to vent to or talk to.  I’m finding I can’t watch triggering things so it’s been friends or schitts creek.  I can’t nap either once I’m awake I’m just too wired. My dogs have been my cuddle buddies while the wife is away at work but like you I feel more at ease to have someone with me.  This is harder than I ever thought it would be.  🫶

[[or...]]

1 hour ago, [[a...] said:

@[or...] yes that’s exactly what I meant but it’s not 5 mg and 15 mg, it’s 5 mg and 10 mg so I’m on 15 mg right now in total. I definitely do not want to cold turkey again. The symptoms are just so scary and make me feel like the worst is going to happen to me. I wonder how I can taper or get a plan. Thank you @[or...] once again for responding. The nurse at the stabilization center told me I’m a very complex case. 

Ok, I see your amount now, I am sorry as my brain gets foggy still about numbers.  So when you a have a longer half life, you might be able to reduce more each time you taper, but holding is what's helped me the most, taper, then hold that amount until I feel my body has stabilized. 

I think I understand what you meant was that you are taking more pills than you have that need to last 15 days worth right?  I did that before too, before BB, and came up short, which is no fun. 

So first some would probably say to get used to taking only your dose that will last 15 days, and just get through until your next 'script without doing one or more doses. What you want to do, is hang on through the wd sxs. Does this make sense?  I know sxs can be overwhelming, but they have gotten better for me if I just wait it out as best I can.

I think most of your wd are coming from the Tolerance wd, and even the CT, so we are facing that too.  But you can do this.  I just want you to try hard to focus on the fact you still have your 'script, and try to hang on through this first sort of trial by fire, it may feel like that.  Becoming stable, more stable, not cured, but able to do more daily tasks etc. is where you want to be before you taper again.

Edited January 13 by [or...]

[[or...]]

Let's try to stay on the Taper Topic here gals, for the most part.  Otherwise, we might get moved over to Withdrawal Symptoms board

Right now we are working towards helping someone figure out a taper plan from where she is standing today, oregonlady,

[[ka...]]

Thanks @[or...] for the reminder and the help 🫶

[[or...]]

deleted by author

Edited January 13 by [or...]

[[an...]]

@[or...] hi hun, I think we have a little bit of miscommunication going on. I don’t take more pills than I am prescribed. I was prescribed diazepam: 5mg, supply of 15 pills, diazepam: 10 mg, supply of 15 pills also. I take them as directed and never take more than necessary. I get the *urge* to because I want these symptoms to stop but I’ve learned that nothing really helps besides time and maybe some coping methods. 
 

I hope I am able to stabilize. I know it can take some people months but I’m wondering if this is a wave or if it’s tolerance and if I am in tolerance would I still be able to stabilize…

Stabilization would be optimal so I can start to taper, however I don’t know how long that will be or if it will even happen. Thank you so much for your responses. 

[[or...]]

Ok, apologies, on misunderstanding.

Tolerance wd is something I don't understand very well, but I do know I had to have been in it for many years because of the short time it takes for a person to need more to get the same effect.  I never got more than 1 mg of a prescription because I felt rather ok as soon as I got my 1 mg taken.  This is just what happened with me and the clonazepam.

If you've see my "history" in my profile, you'll see I went through a couple crazy times before I found BB.  When I reinstated, both times, I was told to take the full 1 mg as I always had.  So when I was tapered too fast, they put me from .25, right back up to 1 mg.

I don't know what others might say about TW, but I have come to stabilize after each taper.  The longest time it took me to stabilize was in the first 2 months I held at 11% taper that was too high but I held as someone suggested.  It turned out good for me. 

Every one is different so we each have to listen to our bodies.  You sound like you know how to do this because holding is something I had to learn.  And I tried a brief liquid taper, what a pain that was with all the water etc.  I like just dry cutting my tablets with a razor blade and weighing my dose on a jewelry scale.  Simple is best for my 
still soggy, I mean foggy brain oregonlady

[[ns...]]

5 hours ago, [[a...] said:

Hi all. I recently reinstated and updosed my Valium from a harsh cold turkey. If you can look at my past posts that would be helpful. It’s too much to explain at the moment. 
 

I have been a daily Valium user for over a year now. I only used it daily because my psychiatrist recommended it and I really regret listening. I got cut off CT as I was kicked from my psychiatrist’s care and left with 0 refills. I started at 20 mg in August of 2022. I got down to 5 mg for a few months and that’s what I was cold turkey’d from. 
 

I have a myriad of symptoms. When I cold turkey’d I had twitching, trembling, sweating profusely, diarrhea, no appetite, insomnia, intrusive thoughts, absolute panic, amongst other things. 
 

I reinstated on 5 mg and it was not providing any relief at all. So my psychiatrist advised me to updose to 15 mg. I was hesitant but did it as I was completely non functional. I ended up getting some relief for a week or two. 
 

Well ever since a week ago, every single one of those symptoms have came back along with ear ringing, I cannot calm down, my oxygen keeps dropping to 91 at the lowest. At the highest it’ll be 95. I have hypertension and my usual blood pressure medication isn’t helping bring it down. I’m still taking 15 mg and it’s not providing the relief it was once was. 
 

I updosed the 13th of December. I feel my only options now are to taper off since it’s not working. My psychiatrist only provides me with 15 pills of 5 mg and 15 pills of 10 mg and I don’t get my refill until the day I run out. I take my morning dose earlier than they have it in so it messes me up. 
 

I have a physical dependency to the diazepam. I’m not addicted, at least I don’t think I am. I’ve always taken as directed, never used more than necessary. I ended up being sent to a crisis stabilization unit Thursday and I was assigned an addiction doctor that was going to detox me that night and give me a med that is used for alcohol withdrawals (not sure of the name), change me from diazepam to lorazepam (they said they didn’t have diazepam, they asked if I brought my own medication as they didn’t have the diazepam),  they were nice and all but I didn’t like the plan they had in mind. I liked the idea of being monitored but switching benzos and crossing over to Ativan seemed too scary along with the addition of other meds. 

Im just at a loss of what to do now. I can’t fall back asleep in the morning when I’m alone and my fiancé & kids leave for school and work. I sweat so badly and have a panic attack. My psychiatrist seems to be clueless about benzo withdrawal and tapering. He believes im not even in withdrawal and just wants to updose me which I don’t want to do anymore since the relief barely lasted. Advice would be appreciated. I know im a complicated case. I just want to be able to function again. I’m so tired of being alone too. 

Anabanana, I can relate! Om sorry your going thru this!

It's appears you've had a tolerance reaction or are in inner dose withdrawal. I had a paradoxical reaction to the lorazapam I was on. Because I was on and off I believe,  when I went back on daily, after about 3 months the meds started to reverse they're effect. So I'm tapering now.  It's been since Oct and still have 1mg left split into 4x doses per day. I went down 10% today even though i havent stabilized. Even though they give me severe anxiety and panic attacks I have to do it this way, going off too fast makes me miserable. So it sounds like this but I'm no expert. 

There are people here who can help with your taper schedule, they offer advice in many different ways so I hope someone will reach out. If not, you can contact Pamster here or jellybelly, or Brighterday. They are quite knowledgeable. 

Sounds like you need to get off quickly but that's not always advisable. 

I hope you connect with one of the above mentioned so they can help u with your withdrawal. 

Ns

 

[[ns...]]

32 minutes ago, [[n...] said:

Anabanana, I can relate! Om sorry your going thru this!

It's appears you've had a tolerance reaction or are in inner dose withdrawal. I had a paradoxical reaction to the lorazapam I was on. Because I was on and off I believe,  when I went back on daily, after about 3 months the meds started to reverse they're effect. So I'm tapering now.  It's been since Oct and still have 1mg left split into 4x doses per day. I went down 10% today even though i havent stabilized. Even though they give me severe anxiety and panic attacks I have to do it this way, going off too fast makes me miserable. So it sounds like this but I'm no expert. 

There are people here who can help with your taper schedule, they offer advice in many different ways so I hope someone will reach out. If not, you can contact Pamster here or jellybelly, or Brighterday. They are quite knowledgeable. 

Sounds like you need to get off quickly but that's not always advisable. 

I hope you connect with one of the above mentioned so they can help u with your withdrawal. 

Ns

Anabanana,

Listen, you have enough pills to do this. I think Your night time dose is where u can start. It may be difficult but that's part of tapering. You said u were sleeping, if you only take 10% of your nighttime dose off each night, see how u do, you may or may not have symptoms,  either way, once u stabilize from the 10%, you go down another 10%, and so on. This will also help u save your pills, save the 10% in a separate bottle, you may need them later.but realize, you will have symptoms eventually, most do, but you said these pills weren't helping u anymore so it's time to get off, going up isn't a viable option right, I know, I tried that. I know you're already having symptoms but it sounds like your best option is to start with your nighttime dose. To get info on how to do a 10% cut, Brighterday or pamster are quite good at advice for this ok.

Just wanted to chime in and offer some ideas ok,

Be strong, it's a long ride, but you can make it through this. You will make it, it's tough but you'll get there.  Please don't hesitate to ask for help and support during your taper, we all need to talk to someone during this process ok

Be well 

Ns

Edited January 13 by [ns...]

[[Da...]]

7 hours ago, [[a...] said:

I have a physical dependency to the diazepam. I’m not addicted, at least I don’t think I am.

I am so sorry for what you are going through and trust me, you are not alone.

 

I think it is important to keep reminding yourself that you are NOT an addict....it helps a little.  I try to remind myself.  I have the same symptoms as you and am bedridden, but I am in tolerance and now taking paradoxical effect to Clonazepam.  Like you, my Psychiatrist does not believe me and wants to increase the dose.  I dropped my dose by half (NOT recommended)because it was making me worse.  It has been almost 2 weeks but I feel the same as when I did cut so I am gonna stay the course and go slow for the last mg.    I am getting a lot of support here.  I also talk a lot with my pharmacist who has been an amazing support.  I don't have much to offer, like others do here but I can offer my prayers and moral support

 

[[Da...]]

6 hours ago, [[o...] said:

benzo that has a very, long Half-life

Hi   Can I ask a question?  I am wondering if I should switch from Clonazepam to Valium????  I would appreciate your opinion, you seem to have more knowledge than I

 

[[ns...]]

Just now, [[D...] said:

Hi   Can I ask a question?  I am wondering if I should switch from Clonazepam to Valium????  I would appreciate your opinion, you seem to have more knowledge than I

Hi Darlene71,  because my reaction to lorazapam,  I was unable to switch to valuim, I did it. It was so miserable I had to go back. It basically did the same as lorazapam but the symptoms lasted longer. So that wasn't fun. I actually thought about trying it again, I need relief but i remember how bad it was. Just thought I'd throw that in there due to our similar issues with benzos,