Changing from dry cutting Valium to liquid Valium

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I am down to 4.5mg Valium on my kindled taper.  I was dropping.5mg every 2 - 3 weeks and doing okay. This current cut I’m holding for 4 weeks as I’m suffering terribly.  My future cuts will be .25mg , but I can’t dry cut the Valium accurately so I am going to change to liquid Valium.  Will the change cause my withdrawal symptoms to become worse.  The liquid Valium is not made by the same company that makes my Valium pills.  Is 1ml of liquid Valium equal to 1mg Valium.  My chemist claims it is 

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[...].  I would hold your dose steady at 4.5mg, using your tablets, until you feel ‘stabilized’ before making any changes.

Once ‘stabilized’, you could swap .5mg tablet for .5mg/.5mL using the 5mg/5mL (in essence 1mg/1mL) manufacturer’s liquid.  Holding for 2 weeks at this point would allow your body/brain to adjust to the dosage form change (if needed).  This would only account for a 11.1% change in dosage form and ensure a smooth transition.

You would be using 4mg in tablet form and only .5mg in liquid form to begin this phase of your taper.  Taper the liquid to 0 as tolerable.  At 4mg, you could then drop a 2mg tablet and substitute for 2mg/2mL manufacturer’s liquid, hold for 2 weeks, and again taper liquid to 0 as tolerable.

Your last stage, you could drop your final 2mg tablet and repeat process.  I’m sure you may have questions so feel free to ask.

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Your chemist is correct, @[...]. The active pharmaceutical ingredient in the tablets you are using is exactly the same as the active pharmaceutical ingredient used in the liquid. 

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Hi Faithhopelove I think I understand what you’re saying.  Because I have been kindled and in withdrawal tolerance I am never stabilised, not even at the start of the taper.  I do have 1 or 2 days a fortnight where the symptoms are more bearable.  I realise now I must really go slow from here to 0, as before I had a set date in my schedule as to when I would finish my taper.  I no longer have that schedule.  With your guidance I think I can do this with the liquid.  Please correct me if I have misunderstood your instructions.  When I feel a bit better change only the.5mg to 5ml liquid and hold at 4.5 for another 2 weeks, then drop the 5ml to 4mg.  Then change a 2mg tablet to 2ml and then do I drop .25ml approximately every two weeks.  Then when I get down to the last 2mg tablet change that to 2ml liquid and repeat the repeat the reductions at 2ml until I reach 0.  I really appreciate your help and guidance 

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Faith Hope Love, you have given me great hope and I’ve finally started to accept both my symptoms (instead of daily searching for and using different medications to try and somewhat mask the symptoms). Knowing now with the knowledge and experience you have acquired using liquid Valium I can make more accurate precise reductions as my body heals.  So it is true our body does heal slightly with each reduction.  So I now understand your instructions and I’m going to follow those for the rest of my journey.  I can’t thank you enough for sharing with me your experience.  Can I keep you posted as I go down with my reduction.  I’m getting the prescription today for the liquid Valium 100ml.  But it has to be ordered in.  It may take another 2 weeks to arrive that will mean I will be holding for 6 weeks when I start my liquid.  Then I hold for another 2 weeks to let my body get used to the liquid and then I drop .5ml.

 

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Faith Hope Love I’ve read some posts about diluting the liquid Valium.  Can you confirm if this is correct 

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Faith Hope Love

You are a godsend. Thanks so much for your help.  I’ll definitely keep you posted on this thread 

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Faith Hope Love 

I currently take 2mg V at 8am and 2.5mg V at 3pm.  When I get down to 4mg and change 2mg into 2ml is it okay to make the morning dose 1mg tablet and 1ml liquid and the same for the afternoon dose.  Throughout my taper I have reduced alternating from morning then next reduction afternoon.  I just got my prescription from the doctor and have given to my chemist.  Could be 7 - 10 days before I get it.  

[[Fa...]]

You can do whatever works best for you, @[...].  I would suggest you keep careful logs of your dosing with your proposed regimen. I, for example, began diazepam dosing 5mg three times per day.  I then transitioned to 5mg morning and 7.5mg evening when I began a formal taper.  I am now only dosing 8mg once daily at night before bed - as this works best for me.  

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Many thanks Faith Hope Love.  I am meticulous with recording all my daily drug, vitamins and supplements including dosage and times.  I guess it comes from being in the forensic field of police work.  I’m now retired with PTSD AND and chronic anxiety.  

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Hi Pamster

i take 100 mg CBD:14 THCA (non activated thc). 400 - 450mg Ltheanine powder 5 nights a week; b6 40mg every second day; melatonin 2 mg - 3 times a week; 105mg magnesium Glycinate every night.  These all help to some degree especially with sleep.  Vitamin c 2000mg per day.  
pharmacy drugs:  Paxil 10mg every day but has stopped working.  I have been on it for 8 months.  I would love to taper off as it gives me itchy skin but I know I can’t taper 2 drugs at once.   12 - 25mg phenergan antihistamine 2 times a week.  Seroquel 25mg once a week-helps with anxiety but as it wears off it makes my depression so much worse.  Lyrica 75mg 2 times a week at the most and does help with both anxiety and depression.  Propranolol 20mg a day 3 times a week.  Zyprexa 2.5 -5mg twice a week, and has the best effect on withdrawal symptoms.  I am aware that both Lyrica and Zyprexa can affect Gaba in some ways.  I am finding now as I have got down to 4.5v I am getting side effects from the pharmacy drugs(which I never did before).  My doctors made the decision rather than using one adjunct medication which we would have to taper off after getting off the Valium or develop a tolerance and dependence that we would use these other adjuncts no more than twice a week.  For the last 8 months of my taper I was averaging 7 days a month without taking adjunct pharmaceuticals.  Now as I’ve got lower it’s down to 5 and I’m learning now to hold longer and make smaller reductions.  
I swim 1.5klm 4 days a week, jog/walk 1 hour a day 5 days a week, cycle between 1 - 1.5 hours 6 days a week.  Exercise really helps me. 

 I eat a Mediterranean style diet (lots of sardines, mackerel and salmon) no take away food, coffee and no sugar oI drink green tea (which does have a small amount of caffeine).  
 

I do approximately 1.5 hours a day of advanced box breathing to stimulate the vagus nerve and 1 hour a day of yoga nidra extended meditation.  The trouble I find now is when I take most of the pharmaceuticals when I close my eyes to either meditate or box breathing I have intrusive and irrational thoughts.

 I am struggling with depression fear and anxiety particularly socially, like doing the grocery shopping by myself.  

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Pamster

i also purchased a TENS Machine which was helping particularly during meditation, but as I’ve gotten lower it’s less effective.  My doctor this morning said that the kindling effect I was exposed to when reinstated after being off for 13 days in march was now exposing itself as we are close to the original 4V starting dose on the first taper (the first taper was done after I got tolerant to.25 Xanax which I took for 9 weeks, we switched to 4 V and tapered off in 12 weeks….. I know now it was too quick for my body)?

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Pamster 

 

I forgot to add a neuro balance probiotic 2 times a day 

[[Pa...]]

Thanks for listing your regimen @[...], you’ve got a lot to keep track of and I’m glad you are.  I see you’re also able to associate what effects you believe the prescription medication is having on you, this is smart because as you already understand, they’ll need to be tapered and this will inform you about what to taper first.

 

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Pamster I know ill have to taper off the Paxil and possibly the zyprexa but I was hoping that the lyrica seroquel and phenergan would not require a taper as I only take them no more than twice a week.  But do you think because I will have been taking them for a year then also will need tapering 

[[Pa...]]

I don’t know enough about these medications to know what you should do @[...], you might want to start a thread (or use the search function) about them to get input from the wider community.  Or, I wonder if the website Surviving Antidepressants would be helpful?

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Pamster I have researched the medications before I embarked on this journey 13 months ago and that I have developed a tolerance to the Zyprexa which is a antipsychotic ( I take a low dose) it helps with a number of the Benzo withdrawal symptoms, however I am aware that it is not recommended for Benzo withdrawal as it reduces the seizure threshold and has other long term side effects (Ashton Manual). Lyrica is a nerve pain killer and is recommended for anxiety however it is very difficult to come off if taken every day.  I am thinking of staying with the zyprexa as I am sure I’m having withdrawal symptoms from the zyprexa after 3 or 4 days.  I will speak with my doctors and get their opinion re stopping the seroquel, lyrica and phenergan.  I am making my priority to come off the Valium first and then the zyprexa and Paxil later.  Thank you for help