Ambien vs Benzos

[[An...]]

I’m curious if Ambien can replace a benzo in a sense that it would pull you out of withdrawal.Also, I’m curious about their similarities. Is it the same thing to take a benzo as taking a, “Z” drug?

[[Bo...]]

I was hoping to see what some of the answers were as I am considering asking my doc about switching from benzo for sleep to one of the ambein CR alternatives.  A;though they use the same mechanism of action the hours effective and the half lives are very different when compared to the longer lasting benzo's.

I have chronic pain issues that I can deal with during the day but screw with my sleep all the time. I also have anxiety issues that I can deal with during the day but not when trying to sleep. Other than the reduced effective time and half life of the two medications,  Neither is good but by the numbers it looks to me that Ambien CR is less bad than Klonopin.  But clearly individual variations matter. Any others with similar conditions and thoughts on these two options? I do mean stop the Klonopin via taper and only then begin Ambein Cr. I cannot stay asleep which is why I keep referencing CR version of Abbein.

 

Daniel ( yes I am a boomer  :-)

[[ve...]]

It passes the duck test.

[[Pa...]]

4 hours ago, [[B...] said:

I was hoping to see what some of the answers were as I am considering asking my doc about switching from benzo for sleep to one of the ambein CR alternatives.  A;though they use the same mechanism of action the hours effective and the half lives are very different when compared to the longer lasting benzo's.

I have chronic pain issues that I can deal with during the day but screw with my sleep all the time. I also have anxiety issues that I can deal with during the day but not when trying to sleep. Other than the reduced effective time and half life of the two medications,  Neither is good but by the numbers it looks to me that Ambien CR is less bad than Klonopin.  But clearly individual variations matter. Any others with similar conditions and thoughts on these two options? I do mean stop the Klonopin via taper and only then begin Ambein Cr. I cannot stay asleep which is why I keep referencing CR version of Abbein.

Daniel ( yes I am a boomer  :-)

Hello @[Bo...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I’ve taken both Klonopin and Ambien so I have a bit of experience but first it would be good to get more information from you.

How long have you been taking Klonopin and how much?  Do you experience any uncomfortable symptoms you attribute to Klonopin, how many times a day do you dose and do you feel anything in-between doses?

I’m sorry to know you’re in so much pain, and understand you need to find a way to sleep, I hope we can help.

Pamster

[[Pa...]]

7 hours ago, [[A...] said:

I’m curious if Ambien can replace a benzo in a sense that it would pull you out of withdrawal.Also, I’m curious about their similarities. Is it the same thing to take a benzo as taking a, “Z” drug?

I stupidly started taking Ambien several months into my recovery from my cold turkey from Klonopin, and yes, after I’d take it, my symptoms would go away but the short half life had me feeling worse.  It wasn’t until I quit the Ambien that I could finally recover from my Klonopin cold turkey.  I don’t recommend it. 

[[Ma...]]

I was taking both xanax and ambien.  I stopped ambien c/t and tapered Xanax.  I had a lot of restless sleepless nights but I was determined to rid myself of all drugs.  I had thought about using ambien for the xanax w/ds but ultimately opted to stop everything.  I can understand the logic behind switching or beginning ambien for sleep to help with the w/ds of benzos but keep in mind ambien is also recommended to be used for a very short duration.  Tolerance occurs quickly and w/ds can occur after only using for a short time.  If it were me I wouldn’t do it.  The real healing started happening for me when I was done with my taper.  

[[Na...]]

Using a z-drug to avoid benzo withdrawals is like using one benzo to withdraw from another benzo.

Z-drugs like Ambien (zolpidem) Lunesta (zopiclone, eszopiclone), etc. do the same things as benzos to GABA receptors therefore they create all the same problems, except they are shorter acting so in some ways they are worse.

 

[[PE...]]

19 minutes ago, [[N...] said:

Using a z-drug to avoid benzo withdrawals is like using one benzo to withdraw from another benzo.

Z-drugs like Ambien (zolpidem) Lunesta (zopiclone, eszopiclone), etc. do the same things as benzos to GABA receptors therefore they create all the same problems, except they are shorter acting so in some ways they are worse.

Yep. I done both benzos and z drugs. Same effects same wd.

[[Bo...]]

20 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Hello @[Bo...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I’ve taken both Klonopin and Ambien so I have a bit of experience but first it would be good to get more information from you.

How long have you been taking Klonopin and how much?  Do you experience any uncomfortable symptoms you attribute to Klonopin, how many times a day do you dose and do you feel anything in-between doses?

I’m sorry to know you’re in so much pain, and understand you need to find a way to sleep, I hope we can help.

Pamster

Klonopin about 9 months 2mg. I have zero issues if I miss a day but reading about long term effects has me concerned. Since Ambien CR has far less 1/2 life and hrs effective, It seemed the best to two poor options for my sleep issues.

 

Also I am on methodone for chronic pain from failed spinal surgury in 2006. Yes I 've been on opioid for that long. 10 mg of Methodne which is 47 MME. I use to be over 200 MME.  I stepped myself down to my current 47 MME. I also only take my pain med when I am having a bad day and about to go to bed as its worse at night. Hope this tells you what you need.

[[Pa...]]

3 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Klonopin about 9 months 2mg. I have zero issues if I miss a day but reading about long term effects has me concerned. Since Ambien CR has far less 1/2 life and hrs effective, It seemed the best to two poor options for my sleep issues.

Also I am on methodone for chronic pain from failed spinal surgury in 2006. Yes I 've been on opioid for that long. 10 mg of Methodne which is 47 MME. I use to be over 200 MME.  I stepped myself down to my current 47 MME. I also only take my pain med when I am having a bad day and about to go to bed as its worse at night. Hope this tells you what you need.

Hi @[Bo...], you should probably start a thread of your own so we can discuss your situation without hijacking @[An...] thread because I feel its important we discuss your next steps.  Since you mention your intention to completely taper off of the Klonopin before starting the Ambien, there is much to take into consideration. 

If you put @[Pa...] in your post I’ll be notified and will share my thoughts with you.

 

[[al...]]

Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about Ambien. A low dose worked for me well for years- I was ok. Then a traumatic event happened and I started increasing the doses to sleep. Still was fine more or less. But a few times I used the drug during the day because I was unable to deal with flashbacks. And that was the end- I went into permanent withdrawal. When you use Ambien please stick to the initial dose, try not to increase it (that's risky!) and stick to one dose pro night. If you break these rules it will get nasty.

[[Bo...]]

14 hours ago, [[a...] said:

Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about Ambien. A low dose worked for me well for years- I was ok. Then a traumatic event happened and I started increasing the doses to sleep. Still was fine more or less. But a few times I used the drug during the day because I was unable to deal with flashbacks. And that was the end- I went into permanent withdrawal. When you use Ambien please stick to the initial dose, try not to increase it (that's risky!) and stick to one dose pro night. If you break these rules it will get nasty.

You used a phrase I have not heard of before. "permanent withdrawal". Can you tell me what you mean as short of death few things are permanent? I am not trying to be a jerk but I do wish to understand what you actually mean. Is this term something new in the past 15 years or so? I am in my 60's so I dont necessarily know the current phrases for the same condition seen years prior. Thank you

[[PE...]]

On 03/01/2024 at 06:18, [[A...] said:

I’m curious if Ambien can replace a benzo in a sense that it would pull you out of withdrawal.Also, I’m curious about their similarities. Is it the same thing to take a benzo as taking a, “Z” drug?

Ambien have a very short half life so it can't be switched for a longer working benzo..

[[Pa...]]

11 hours ago, [[B...] said:

You used a phrase I have not heard of before. "permanent withdrawal". Can you tell me what you mean as short of death few things are permanent? I am not trying to be a jerk but I do wish to understand what you actually mean. Is this term something new in the past 15 years or so? I am in my 60's so I dont necessarily know the current phrases for the same condition seen years prior. Thank you

I’m going to hazard a guess as to what @[al...] meant, its what sprung to mind when I read it the first time.  I would say kindling happened and it’s permanent.  Once you reach the point of being kindled by the drug, you can no longer take it without experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  

A friend of mine took Ambien for a few years when it turned on him, it took him about 11 months to recover.  Now, if he takes an Ambien, it will put him to sleep but the next day he suffers from withdrawal symptoms and if he takes it for a second night, the symptoms are even worse the next day.  

This may not be the right interpretation but its what came to mind. 

[[Si...]]

Is kindling definitely permanent?  Does this mean a kindled person can't have alcohol ever again? I am kindled and was banking on maybe trying some alcohol 5-7 years after I've healed.

[[Pa...]]

3 hours ago, [[S...] said:

Is kindling definitely permanent?  Does this mean a kindled person can't have alcohol ever again? I am kindled and was banking on maybe trying some alcohol 5-7 years after I've healed.

Kindling when it comes to benzodiazepines is just a theory, it hasn’t been studied as extensively as it has with alcohol.  From what I understand of kindling as it pertains to alcohol is, with repeated cycles of intoxication followed by abstinence and withdrawal the person will experience increasingly severe withdrawal symptoms with each successive cycle.  

I believe this kindling refers to alcoholics and heavy drinkers so we have no way of knowing if someone who has been kindled by benzodiazepines will face issues with alcohol after recovery.  Many members have been able to consume alcohol after recovery, some while tapering with little to no effect, we just don’t know how it will go for us.  But as with everything about this process, if we start low and go slow, we can hopefully find what works.  

 

[[al...]]

Hi guys. I have no idea how to respond to a particular person so I simply have to comment it here- I didn't mean that the withdrawal will last for a lifetime. I just read in the Ashton Manual that people who take Ambien and start experiencing withdrawal symptoms during the day are in a state of "permanent" withdrawal through the day until they take Ambien for sleep again at night. One is actually supposed to take only one dose of Ambien a night that lasts for about 2-3 hours and then for the rest of the time they experience withdrawal (like 20 hours). That's what I meant with permanent (almost permanent)- lasting through the majority of the day.

[[Pa...]]

4 hours ago, [[a...] said:

Hi guys. I have no idea how to respond to a particular person so I simply have to comment it here- I didn't mean that the withdrawal will last for a lifetime. I just read in the Ashton Manual that people who take Ambien and start experiencing withdrawal symptoms during the day are in a state of "permanent" withdrawal through the day until they take Ambien for sleep again at night. One is actually supposed to take only one dose of Ambien a night that lasts for about 2-3 hours and then for the rest of the time they experience withdrawal (like 20 hours). That's what I meant with permanent (almost permanent)- lasting through the majority of the day.

This was my experience, thanks for explaining @[al...].

[[El...]]

Read my succes story. I was only prescribed Ambien and only took half the dose, it was a living nightmare the first 2-3 years. 

Ambien are in my opinion a Monster benzo in disguise 🥸

As Nathan said...to replace benzo with Ambien are the same as replacing benzo with benzo. 

[[Nu...]]

Stands to reason that it may delay your overall recovery time, so that's a consideration. Our bodies want/need to be benzo and Z drug free.