Really destabilized

[[Bu...]]

Hello,

I was nearing the end of an almost 2 year taper off Valium when the wheels fell off. I have gotten down to 1.5mg. I accidentally updosed for a week and then came back down, but it was about a 30% cut. Far too much for this gal. I cannot seem to stabalize. It’s been 8 weeks of holding and things just keep getting worse and worse. I am not sure if I should just jump here (I frankly do think things could get any worse) or if I keep tapering, which I don’t think is gonna help much. Any words of wisdom or encouragement welcome 🐇

[[Ha...]]

Hi Bunnie. What do you mean by “jump here”? I’m new to this forum and don’t know the lingo. I now know I was suffering from temperance wd before I started my taper. My taper wasn’t too bad honestly. Post taper has been way, way worse than the taper itself. 
 
without knowing more details, off the cuff I would say stay convicted on your taper and keep plugging away. 

[[je...]]

13 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Hello,

I was nearing the end of an almost 2 year taper off Valium when the wheels fell off. I have gotten down to 1.5mg. I accidentally updosed for a week and then came back down, but it was about a 30% cut. Far too much for this gal. I cannot seem to stabalize. It’s been 8 weeks of holding and things just keep getting worse and worse. I am not sure if I should just jump here (I frankly do think things could get any worse) or if I keep tapering, which I don’t think is gonna help much. Any words of wisdom or encouragement welcome 🐇

I'm so sorry you're having a difficult time right now and I wish I had the answers for you to make it better. You are so close to the end so I understand this must be devastating for you. One thing I do know is we often think things can't get worse but they often do. I have seen people jump because they thought they've hit rock bottom and they were much worse off. Instead of jumping why not make a small cut and see how you react to that? If it were me, I'd hold for a bit longer. You have come so far, you just need to push through this end bit. You can do it!

[[je...]]

1 hour ago, [[H...] said:

What do you mean by “jump here”?

Jumping refers to stopping the med completely. 

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] I am completely non functional which is horrible as I’ve been totally stable. I just don’t know if I can hold any longer, it will be 8 weeks tomorrow. Or is I taper or just jump. It’s all a mess 

[[je...]]

I'm really sorry. Only you can make the decision what's in your best interest. I'm just alerting you to the fact that some people jumped early and it got even worse for them. If it were me, I would not jump unless I'm below 1mg. I can only tell you what I would do. But I'm not in your shoes and I have no idea what you're experiencing in this moment. Whatever you decide to do, we will be here to support you. 

Just one more question: when you accidentally updosed, did you feel any better? Might an updose maybe help you stabilize?

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] thank you for the kind response. I felt kinda the same during the accidental updose. Stable which I had been this whole way down. I updosed from 1.5mg to 2mg two nights ago and have seen no difference. I am not sure if I should go higher or what the eff to do. It’s just been weeks of unrelenting mental and physical symptoms. It’s just soooo sad to me because I had a good taper, totally uneventful. 

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] sorry one more. Just worried I am too far out for an updose as it had been 8 weeks! I tried it, no luck yet but one can hope 

[[je...]]

I'm sorry it's still difficult @[Bu...]. Can you update your taper history for me as per the post below please? If I know and understand how much you've been cutting it will give me an idea of how sensitive you are to cuts and dosages which will help me better advise you with this updose. 

On 19/08/2023 at 09:15, [[P...] said:

Please fill in your medication history, taper details and any other pertinent information so others can provide the best feedback for your situation. 

Profile => Edit profile (top-right of profile banner) => Add succinct use/taper/withdrawal history to 'History' text box => click 'Save' (bottom-right).

 

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] I have added it. I want to note that I have been totally stable the entire way down. I would feel my cuts and then wait a little bit and then cut again. I was working, living life etc. after the pill issue on Oct 27 I have no been able to do anything. Bedridden and crying all day. Horrific mental symptoms etc…

[[je...]]

Thanks @[Bu...]. You've done a very sensible taper. Since you've made 0.25 cuts as of 4mg, I would suggest you hold your updose for a while longer. The 0.5mg updose might not be enough but I'm hoping right now it's only a timing issue. For some people it can be a while before they feel a difference. I would give it one more week. If you don't feel a difference in a week's time I would add another 1mg. I'm so sorry this whole thing threw your life upside down. I was bedridden at the start of my taper due to rapid cuts, so I completely understand what it feels like. I was lucky to recover from it by updosing. Please keep reaching out so we can support you. You are not alone. 

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] thank you! It was not a bad taper at all. I felt so good until I did that accidental updose for one week. 14 days after coming back down the gates of hell opened up. It’s so nice to have someone to talk to about this. My husband has been so so supportive. I was only able to find one benzo wise doctor but it’s 25k USD to see him. I am feeling quite scared. I know I have a complicated history but throughout most of it I have been just fine. I am just hoping I didn’t wait too long to updose. 8 weeks! I was just really trying to hold out 

[[je...]]

It's good to hear your husband is supportive. We need all the support we can get. I don't think there's a timeline for updosing. Generally you should've stabilized from the cut by now, but it doesn't mean updosing won't work. I'm also just checking that there was no change in brand or how you dose. How did the accidental updose happen?

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] well I feel like a REAL idiot explaining it. I take my Valium in compounded liquid, I have always taken it this way, minus maybe one to two weeks at the beginning on tablets. On Friday Oct 27, I went to get my dose and noticed I was out of liquid. I used very old (2018?) pills that were 5mg broken up to try to get my 1.5mg dose, I think I really overshot it. I did this from Oct 27-Nov 3 (when my RX was ready). I then went back on the liquid on Nov 3 and on Nov 16 symptoms just rapidly began. Exactly 14 days later. 
 

Because I am such a genius i forgot I had a lab grade scale that was used way way back when I was dry cutting in 2019 for a little bit. After I realized my mistake I realized that a 1.5mg dose from a 5mg tablet should have weighed 0.044g but the pieces I was using were roughly 0.055g-0.066g. WAY OFF

i thought if I held it would resolve but alas after a horrific 8 weeks I cannot hold anymore, it’s just been me in bed crying and not able to work. 

[[je...]]

Please don't feel like an idiot. We are not our best selves during withdrawal. I struggle with brain fog and I often make elementary mistakes. So I'm trying to understand (because I'm not my best cognitive self either). You ran out of liquid and then used pills. But you haven't used pills in many years right? Because this might be a big contributing factor to your symptoms. The fact that you swapped from liquid to pills back to liquid. Many people get severely destabilized by going from liquids to solids and vice versa. 

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] yes - liquid ran out, subbed with pills and then back to liquid.

the pill dose was WAY too high, I was breaking up old 5mg pills to get a 1.5mg dose. Just way way off. Then weighed those pieces after I went back to liquid and had WD symptoms and realized they were way way too big. It was a large updose and then right back to my 1.5mg liquid. 
 

the updose was fine it was coming back down after 7 days that I think really rocked me. Plus the switch

[[je...]]

I think all of these factors played a role. But hopefully things will start to level out with the updose. It's so demoralizing when the taper has gone so smoothly and then suddenly everything goes haywire. Please hang in there, I know it's not easy, but you can do this!

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] thank you. Oh I am the most demoralized ever over this. I am not functional right now and I HATE it. 😮‍💨

[[je...]]

Sending you a virtual hug.

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] thank you. I’ve gone back up to 2.5 and it’s still not sticking, seeing my doctor tomorrow as I think I may need to go up even more. It’s such a shame because I was FINE. I am non functional and with 2 little kids I have to do something. Working with a benzo coach too 

[[je...]]

Hi @[Bu...]

Gosh, I'm sorry you're not getting better. As you said, you might need to updose a bit more as a 1mg updose might not be enough. I feel so sorry that it turned out this way. I have two kids as well, so I know how crucial it is to be there for them. Is your doctor supportive? Do they understand withdrawal and tapering?

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] yes I have literally been in bed crying for 9 weeks this ain’t gonna fly for much longer. I had this issue with previous taper (becoming destabilized) and did go to higher dose with no issues. I just think I left it too long and I really went into WD. I am talking to my doctor tomorrow and they are pretty good at this stuff. I guess I am just very bummed I have to updose again. 

[[je...]]

I'm so glad you have a good doctor. And I totally get how demoralising it is when you have no other choice but to lose ground. But ultimately you're doing it for your family. They need you functional. And I know they would be grateful that you did it (even though they might not say it, but they'll be grateful that mom is better).

If there's one thing I've learned, it's much more important to be functional and have as little as possible symptoms - taper as long as you need if it means you get to be there for your family and be able to enjoy the time with them. Tapering to get it done with, is overrated. Tapering to have minimal symptoms no matter how long it takes and still be able to enjoy life - that's the winning formula in my opinion.

[[Bu...]]

@[je...] I have updosed back to 4mg and things are just worse and worse. I think I’ve hit true tolerance as I don’t even feel the doses and I am in horrific WD. I am thinking of going to rehab to just get off as I am not sure it can get much worse than where I am now. 

[[je...]]

I am so sorry, and I know my words sound empty. I wish I knew what to say or do to make it better, but I don't know what the best course of action would be. I honestly don't think rehab would be good. I know of many members who thought it couldn't get worse, but then it got so much worse than they ever imagined. I would never consider rehab. You can yank yourself off the pills, you don't need to pay someone to do a rapid taper in my opinion. They only make you feel comfortable for the time you are in their care, but when you leave, you deal with the consequences.

I know @[Wi...] also had a terrible time trying to stabilize and it took a couple of months, but eventually he succeeded. His story is a bit different to yours but it might help you to look into his history and see if there's anything you feel you can identify with and might help you.

What does your benzo coach suggest?