Managing to get off Victan (Ethyl loflazepate)

[[ve...]]

 

I read somewhere that leaving alcohol is best done in spring, so I decided to also leave benzos this winter, when nights last longer and I sleep better.

 

I started taking benzos for insomnia like 10 years ago.  I started with 6mg of Bromazepam.  The only times I took a larger dose was to come down off cocaine, so I never took more than 6mg daily.  I was diagnosed with GAD and got a prescription for Victan 2mg to take twice daily.  Because of concerns with addiction, I managed to get it down to 3mg, then 2mg and finally 1mg, which I've taking for 6 years.  I read that 2mg of Victan is equivalent to 10mg of Diazepam, but I think it's much less.  I was told by the doctor that it was less adictive than regular benzos.  Wikipedia says it's a prodrug, meaning that the real benzodiazepine comes after Victan is metabolized by the liver.

 

I was a heavy marijuana smoker before that and tried LSD once.  The mix of new-age beliefs and psychedelics was toxic for me and I ended up in the psych ward for 2 weeks.  Years later I made the mistake to try codeine.  After codeine, I managed to be a functional alcoholic for about 5 years.  I've been sober since May...  That allowed me to ditch 7kg of weight and the anti-hypertensive medication.

 

A month and a week ago I cut the 2mg pill into 4 so I've been taking 0,5mg daily until last week.  I'm now taking 0,5mg every other day.

 

My battle plans so far:
- Take full advantage of any placebo effect.  My imagination, not my mind, may be my worst enemy (but also my friend as I depend on it for my job).
- Take full advantage that I can work remote now.
- 7,5mg of Mirtazapine daily for sleep.  This medication increases hunger so I must be careful with food to avoid regaining all the lost weight.
- Supplements: Magnesium, melatonin & vitamin B complex.

 

So far so good I managed well.  I began struggling with this week's cut.  Before I only felt weird less than half an hour a day on average.  I began to take half a pill of the antihypertensive medication as I noticed that my diastolic blood pressure has been higher.  It also works as a placebo.

 

All of my personal daemons have come back at least once.  Some to say goodbye.  I find this part unavoidable since I should have dealt with them in the right way, not by escaping them.

 

Things I've doing to feel better:
- Avoid caffeinated drinks like yerba mate.  I still enjoy my coffee in the morning, but not after.
- I no longer eat dark chocolate.
- Regular walks with my dog and bicycle to switch contexts and avoid getting agoraphobic. Take some real risks instead of fearing my imagination.  Venture out of my comfort zone every now and then.
- Listen to music and programming.
- Avoid reading the news at night and weird content on Netflix.

Edited December 7, 2023 by [ve...]

[[ve...]]

I'm supposed to take another 0,5mg today. The last dose was the day before yesterday and I've been feeling well. I have a clear head, as if the chemical has gone from my system.  

I learnt the hard way to be skeptical that this feeling is going to last but I'm tempted to take the final leap.  Will not push myself and will take it only if I feel my system is craving it.  It has a long half-life but I want to avoid the kindling effect if I take another dose.

[[ve...]]

My mental symptoms correlate with physical symptoms most of the time, and I find it useful to worry about my blood pressure rather than about losing my mind.  Correcting any physical symptoms has the effect of calming me down.

[[me...]]

Hi Verdi I'm new here but you have come through so much I like your plan and I know things will be tough.. but you are looking to the future hpe you heal soon🙏🙏

[[ve...]]

2 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Hi Verdi I'm new here but you have come through so much I like your plan and I know things will be tough.. but you are looking to the future hpe you heal soon🙏🙏

Thank you. I'm also new here. I connected in May when I went to detox off alcohol.  

[[me...]]

I'm glad I found such a helpful friendly forum despite we are all going thro the mill😉

[[ve...]]

47 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

I'm glad I found such a helpful friendly forum despite we are all going thro the mill😉

I decided that I will take the dose today for 2 reasons:

1. There's no hurry.  I will make it and this year hasn't ended yet.
2. I will be more likely to "kindle" if I take a dose in the next likely anxiety/panic attack.  I will be taking it every other day for 2 weeks.

[[ve...]]

With the fear of losing one's mind comes also the fear of letting go of the fears, as these have become an integral part of our core identity.

One fear at a time... A lost battle is not a lost war.  Any temporary setback or retreat should be handled as a way to better know the enemy.

[[ve...]]

Had very high blood pressure yesterday. I will take 0,5mg Victan and hypertensive medication every day. Next year I will discuss with my doctor about beta blockers. Can't risk a heart attack for going too fast.

[[ve...]]

Today and yesterday I had to take 0,25mg Alprazolam to ward off an anxiety/panic attack that I thought could end on seizure.  The relief was instant, in less than 15 minutes, which I suspect comes mostly from placebo effect.

I need truces like this to avoid this process becoming an obsession.  I also needed the assurance that I can stop a  panic attack in case of emergency.

 

[[ve...]]

I feel like I've been zigzagging my way instead of taking X steps back for every X+N steps forward.  I just refuse to feel weird more than a half an hour a day, and that's non-negotiable.  My mind won't wait for my brain to fix itself, as I want to enjoy the calm that giving up alcohol gave me.

So when the 0,25mg Alprazolam kicks in I dare to think, say or do whatever I feared to.  It's such a shame the way our souls are bound to our bodies, and that it all boils down to some fucking chemical reactions.

Fuck biochemistry.  Can't wait for the nano-robots to fix it for us.

Edited December 21, 2023 by [ve...]

[[Ka...]]

On 07/12/2023 at 13:05, [[v...] said:

I read somewhere that leaving alcohol is best done in spring, so I decided to also leave benzos this winter, when nights last longer and I sleep better.

I started taking benzos for insomnia like 10 years ago.  I started with 6mg of Bromazepam.  The only times I took a larger dose was to come down off cocaine, so I never took more than 6mg daily.  I was diagnosed with GAD and got a prescription for Victan 2mg to take twice daily.  Because of concerns with addiction, I managed to get it down to 3mg, then 2mg and finally 1mg, which I've taking for 6 years.  I read that 2mg of Victan is equivalent to 10mg of Diazepam, but I think it's much less.  I was told by the doctor that it was less adictive than regular benzos.  Wikipedia says it's a prodrug, meaning that the real benzodiazepine comes after Victan is metabolized by the liver.

I was a heavy marijuana smoker before that and tried LSD once.  The mix of new-age beliefs and psychedelics was toxic for me and I ended up in the psych ward for 2 weeks.  Years later I made the mistake to try codeine.  After codeine, I managed to be a functional alcoholic for about 5 years.  I've been sober since May...  That allowed me to ditch 7kg of weight and the anti-hypertensive medication.

A month and a week ago I cut the 2mg pill into 4 so I've been taking 0,5mg daily until last week.  I'm now taking 0,5mg every other day.

My battle plans so far:
- Take full advantage of any placebo effect.  My imagination, not my mind, may be my worst enemy (but also my friend as I depend on it for my job).
- Take full advantage that I can work remote now.
- 7,5mg of Mirtazapine daily for sleep.  This medication increases hunger so I must be careful with food to avoid regaining all the lost weight.
- Supplements: Magnesium, melatonin & vitamin B complex.

So far so good I managed well.  I began struggling with this week's cut.  Before I only felt weird less than half an hour a day on average.  I began to take half a pill of the antihypertensive medication as I noticed that my diastolic blood pressure has been higher.  It also works as a placebo.

All of my personal daemons have come back at least once.  Some to say goodbye.  I find this part unavoidable since I should have dealt with them in the right way, not by escaping them.

Things I've doing to feel better:
- Avoid caffeinated drinks like yerba mate.  I still enjoy my coffee in the morning, but not after.
- I no longer eat dark chocolate.
- Regular walks with my dog and bicycle to switch contexts and avoid getting agoraphobic. Take some real risks instead of fearing my imagination.  Venture out of my comfort zone every now and then.
- Listen to music and programming.
- Avoid reading the news at night and weird content on Netflix.

thanks for sharing it. I no longer bother much with caffeinated drinks and most definately avoid creepy content on netflix/or most rubbish on the glowing box, and kudos to you for beating the agoraphia strategy. if you dont mind me asking,  whats the deal with dark chocolate? I like it sometimes. it went up in cost since inflation etc. So, just curious reason to not indulge

[[ve...]]

14 hours ago, [[K...] said:

thanks for sharing it. I no longer bother much with caffeinated drinks and most definately avoid creepy content on netflix/or most rubbish on the glowing box, and kudos to you for beating the agoraphia strategy. if you dont mind me asking,  whats the deal with dark chocolate? I like it sometimes. it went up in cost since inflation etc. So, just curious reason to not indulge

I like coffee but yerba mate upsets my stomach.  Same with dark chocolate but to a lesser extent.

[[Ka...]]

Im currently exploring "Dysbiosis" or basically gut health. so it discusses prebiotics, probiotics etc.

Anyone else having gut issues?

[[ve...]]

I've been managing with 0,5mg Victan and 0,125mg Alprazolam at noon and night on as needed basis.

The cut from 1mg to 0,5mg has allowed me to explore the issues that led me to take benzos, having Alprazolam as a hand brake for anxiety and panic attacks.  

My issues are all related to the stuff I experienced on Cannabis and my first and last LSD trip.  The nature of reality and consciousness baffles me, and the derealization and depersonalization of benzo withdrawals doesn't improve matters.

It ain't gonna be easy, and I can't afford to lose my job, my wife or get obsessed about this.  I really hope for a soft-landing with beta blockers next year.

[[ve...]]

Mirtazapine helps with insomnia but I need something to deal with this weird symptom that is derealization/depersonalition.  Does CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) help with this?  I wish there was a tool not only to deal with this but also learn from this experience.

Tomorrow it will be 8 months since I got sober from alcohol.  I also have to go to a job related Prague meeting this year and I can't allow myself to experience withdrawal symptoms and panic attacks.  I don't have time for this sh*t.  I already wasted part of my youth and I don't want to waste my best years fighting ghosts, when I could visit other countries instead. This cut has allowed to deal with the issues that benzos masked but if stopping it messes with this sense of balance I got after getting sober, then I leave open the decision to reinstate Victan before I get addicted also to Xanax.

What puzzles me if that I could make the 1mg cuts from 4 to 1.  Why not from 1 to 0.5???

[[ve...]]

Just to update that I reinstated 2x in January to 2mg, then cut down to 1,5mg.  A week ago I'm back to my original dose of 1mg.

In retrospect I think I should have held at 0,5mg instead of cutting too fast to 0,25mg.  I will try again this Fall to cut to 0,5mg and settle there.