Am I in tolerance?

[Guest [...]]

Hi. I went on this forum over a year ago. I had just been rapidly tapered off of Lexapro from 25mg to 10mg in 6 weeks. CT the Effexor and put on 30mg of Cymbalta. Previosly I was put on and off of several AD's over a year. Probably 8 in all. My CNS was a mess and still is. 

I am currently down to 7.36mg of Lexapro. It has been very challenging to get to that. There have been many holds in the process. I have had to add a .25mg of Klonopin to my afternoon. So, I am now on .75mg. It helped w wd symptoms a little bit but I no longer get "break through" anxiety. I do get the occasional anxiety rush when I am stressed. 

Pamster, I know you get a lot of people begging for help and those that are in desperate situations. I don't even know why I am texting you. I guess, I am scared and would like to get some insight from someone who has been in the trenches and just might be able to help.

How would I know if I am in Benzo tolerance? What are some of the symptoms? 

I do get windows/partial windows everyday. Mostly at night after my evening dose of Klonopin. My mornings are hell. I wake up and take my Klonopin and try to fall asleep for another hour. I take my lexapro and estradiol at 8am. Every day varies but around 9:30 is when I gfeel the tension and symptoms building. At noon I take my afternoon dose of Klonopin and at 12;30 I take my 30mg of Cymbalta. The afternoons have been hitter miss in regards to symptom intensity.When I take my 6pm Klonopin, it's different. It seems like everything calms way down and I am able to enjoy my evening. I should let you know that I sleep really well.

 

I am terrified that I could be in Benzo tolerance. A lot of my  friends and two tapering coaches do not feel that I am in tolerance because I am able to work, keep a spotless house, sleep, eat and have windows. They feel it is from my fast tapers and cold turkey off of the Effexor over a year and 8 months ago. My concern is that the intensity of the tension in my body has greatly increased. It is also getting a lot harder to focus on work because of the intensity. Over and over again they say that if I were in tolerance I would be suffering 24/7. That I wouldn't be getting ANY relief and I sure as heck wouldn't be sleeping as well as I am.

 

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to read my post. It is ok if you don't have the time to reply. I promise, I will understand. 

 

I just desperately want to get back to my goofy, fun loving self, you know? I miss me.

 

Much love and respect,

Ninabird/chrissy

 

[[Pa...]]

Hello @[Ni...], how long have you been on the Klonopin?  I tend to agree with the others, I’ve read that when someone is in tolerance, they can’t get any relief and it appears the Klonopin is still working for you.

It looks like you’re still tapering the Lexepro, have your symptoms changed since you added the Klonopin, I guess I’m trying to figure out if what you’re feeling is a continuation of the symptoms from the Lexepro taper or if the Klonopin has added something new. 

[Guest [...]]

I’m really sorry for your pain and distress, @[Ni...]

It sounds to me like it’s the Klonopin.

It’s not true about the sleeping… I know of others in tolerance who still sleep a solid 7hrs a night when holding at a certain dose. Their morning dosing mostly brings on and intensifies symptoms, whereas the nightly dose is mostly therapeutic, calms the farm and allows them to sleep. 

If the Klonopin were still having its intended effect, I strongly suspect it would be mostly, if not completely, masking AD withdrawal. 

The experience of Tolerance to benzodiazepines isn’t as clear cut as the doctors imagine it to be, and I say ‘imagine’ because that’s what they are doing… they conjure an image that fits into a neat little box. It’s not that simple. 

[Guest [...]]

3 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

I’m really sorry for your pain and distress, @[Ni...]

It sounds to me like it’s the Klonopin.

It’s not true about the sleeping… I know of others in tolerance who still sleep a solid 7hrs a night when holding at a certain dose. Their morning dosing mostly brings on and intensifies symptoms, whereas the nightly dose is mostly therapeutic, calms the farm and allows them to sleep. 

If the Klonopin were still having its intended effect, I strongly suspect it would be mostly, if not completely, masking AD withdrawal. 

The experience of Tolerance to benzodiazepines isn’t as clear cut as the doctors imagine it to be, and I say ‘imagine’ because that’s what they are doing… they conjure an image that fits into a neat little box. It’s not that simple. 

WS, 

What you say makes sense. The mornings are awful. The afternoons are not as awful and the evenings are good. 
With that being said, what do I do from here? I’ve been on this dose (.75mg) for almost 3 years. I’m a little over 7mg into my taper of Lexapro. I still have to taper my Cymbalta after the Lexapro. 
Will the tolerance get worse? I’m trying not to go up in my Klonopin unless it becomes unbearable. 
The Klonopin will and has never masked the WD. Ever. 
I had a lot worse and more extreme symptoms. Two years ago. I have had symptoms is up just the last few months. My symptoms have really increased in the morning and afternoon. I do have a lot of stress in my life which does not help.
 

[Guest [...]]

2 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Hello @[Ni...], how long have you been on the Klonopin?  I tend to agree with the others, I’ve read that when someone is in tolerance, they can’t get any relief and it appears the Klonopin is still working for you.

It looks like you’re still tapering the Lexepro, have your symptoms changed since you added the Klonopin, I guess I’m trying to figure out if what you’re feeling is a continuation of the symptoms from the Lexepro taper or if the Klonopin has added something new. 

I’ve been on Klonopin almost 3 years now. 
my symptoms haven’t changed but intensified the last two months. 
My Aunt passed away recently, my boyfriend had a stroke, I have a stressful job. 
 

IF it is tolerance, will it continue to get worse? What are my options? I can’t not work. It’s not an option. 
 

Thsnk you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. 🌺

[Guest [...]]

I’m so sorry to hear about the loss of your Aunt and your boyfriends stroke, @[Ni...]

I can’t help but wonder if the increase or intensification of your symptom coincides with the above emotionally stressful events?

Stress does intensify symptoms for those withdrawing or experiencing tolerance, which is why it is suggested that a person hold their tapering until they have moved past the stressful event…. things have settled. So, there could very well be a connection between these life stresses and the intensification of your symptoms. 

Right now, personally, I think I would avoid making any reductions in my medications until I’ve had time to process and settle down from recent events. It doesn’t help having a high stress job, so anything you can adopt to help relieve that additional stress would be advised. 

It’s important that you remain functional and not panic about where you go from here. I think I would just give yourself a little time to gauge whether this uptick in symptoms is related to increased stress, tolerance, or (potentially) a combination of both. 

If someone is in tolerance, the only real option is to do a sensibly paced taper off the benzo. 
The thing that keeps coming up for me is that you experience the onset and intensification of symptoms after your morning dose, which is a familiar sign of tolerance to me. I am also aware that you dose your AD in the morning, but, because I’ve seen this uptick in symptoms after the morning dose with others, I suspect it’s related to the klonopin. 

My educated guess… I suspect your uptick in symptoms are related to both the stresses in your life and developing tolerance.

Some people can be in tolerance for months or even years without really knowing it. They may have certain symptoms that develop or intensify over time, but often attribute it to a pre-existing underlying condition, as opposed to connecting the symptoms to the medication itself. 

I can’t definitively say whether you are in tolerance or not, but there are certain signs that do point in that direction. 
‘Stay with us here on BB and just give yourself time to recover from these recent stressful events, try and take the pressure off yourself at work if you can, and then reassess. 

If things don’t improve, personally, I would then look at planning a sensible taper off the Klonopin. We can provide you with the relevant information, help you devise a sensible taper plan, and offer support and encouragement throughout the entire process, should you feel the need to make that choice to taper off. 

 

[Guest [...]]

WS, 

I have to say your message was very insightful and refreshingly supportive. I have to tell you that Dr’s have tried a lot of AD’s in a short amount of time and have really messed up my CNS. I am making progress in healing. I no longer have DP, sensitivity to heat, tingling in my brain, I can close my eyes in the shower , I rarely get pressure in my chest, anxiety rushes are rare, face flushing is gone, bloodshot eyes are gone… 

Im concerned about tapering off of the Klonopin while I have 2 more meds to come off of. SA says the benzo should be tapered off last. If the benzo is causing me to feel this way, maybe tapering the others won’t be so horrible if I get rid of the main assailant. Ok, that  was a bit overly dramatic. Lol

I will take your advice and hold from tapering for now and allow the stresses to chill out and see what happens  I want off all of these meds  they never helped me to begin w  I have had adverse reaction to lexapro from day one. I look forward to taking my very last dose one day  

Thank you for your help  I truly appreciate you  

Chrissy 🌺

 

[Guest [...]]

2 hours ago, [[N...] said:

I’ve been on Klonopin almost 3 years now. 
my symptoms haven’t changed but intensified the last two months. 
My Aunt passed away recently, my boyfriend had a stroke, I have a stressful job. 
 

IF it is tolerance, will it continue to get worse? What are my options? I can’t not work. It’s not an option. 
 

Thsnk you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. 🌺

I’ve had adverse reaction to the Lexapro since they put me in it. They kept upping my dose until I was at 25mg! I was a complete wreck at 25mg. Then they fast tapered me down thinking I would come off that and go on Cymbalta. Well, the 6 week taper from 25mg to 10 in 6 weeks caused me to crash. I had to hold for 4 months before attempting to taper again. All the while I was on the new Cymbalta dose. The two don’t mix well together. 
It’s been a mess, Pamster. 
I am thankful that I still work ( im

a Realtor) and I keep up w my other responsibilities. W the recent stressors, my symptoms have really intensified. 
 

Im thankful that today was a lot easier all day. 

[[Pa...]]

7 hours ago, [[N...] said:

I’ve been on Klonopin almost 3 years now. 

I was agreeing with @[Wi...]‘s take on your situation but when I read this, I now totally agree with you and him. 

[Guest [...]]

7 hours ago, [[N...] said:

WS, 

I have to say your message was very insightful and refreshingly supportive. I have to tell you that Dr’s have tried a lot of AD’s in a short amount of time and have really messed up my CNS. I am making progress in healing. I no longer have DP, sensitivity to heat, tingling in my brain, I can close my eyes in the shower , I rarely get pressure in my chest, anxiety rushes are rare, face flushing is gone, bloodshot eyes are gone… 

Im concerned about tapering off of the Klonopin while I have 2 more meds to come off of. SA says the benzo should be tapered off last. If the benzo is causing me to feel this way, maybe tapering the others won’t be so horrible if I get rid of the main assailant. Ok, that  was a bit overly dramatic. Lol

I will take your advice and hold from tapering for now and allow the stresses to chill out and see what happens  I want off all of these meds  they never helped me to begin w  I have had adverse reaction to lexapro from day one. I look forward to taking my very last dose one day  

Thank you for your help  I truly appreciate you  

Chrissy 🌺

Hi Chrissy

Thank you for proving the additional information… it really is helpful to us. 

It’s really good to hear certain symptoms are now resolving. 

The additional information only adds weight to idea of holding your taper until you feel you have recovered from recent stressful events, after which, we can then revisit everything we’ve already have discussed. 

Right now, I wouldn’t concern yourself too much with which med is the right one to taper first. I think we just need to see how you feel (symptomatically) once you’ve processed or eased current stresses. You can make your decision once you feel more attuned to which of your medications may be posing the biggest issue.  

7 hours ago, [[N...] said:

I’ve had adverse reaction to the Lexapro since they put me in it. They kept upping my dose until I was at 25mg! I was a complete wreck at 25mg. Then they fast tapered me down thinking I would come off that and go on Cymbalta. Well, the 6 week taper from 25mg to 10 in 6 weeks caused me to crash. I had to hold for 4 months before attempting to taper again. All the while I was on the new Cymbalta dose. The two don’t mix well together. 
It’s been a mess, Pamster. 
I am thankful that I still work ( im

a Realtor) and I keep up w my other responsibilities. W the recent stressors, my symptoms have really intensified. 
 

Im thankful that today was a lot easier all day. 

It does sound like you’ve been put through the wringer as far as multiple switches from one AD to another is concerned.
It does amaze me that doctors don’t follow the proper protocols when tapering AD’s. One can google to see proper AD taper protocols, which are a minimum of 3 months, but, I guess doctors are often rushed to find the right medication, so they accept the risks associated with breaking taper protocol in their rush to find a medication that works, switching from one to another without realising the damage/suffering they could be causing in the process. 

My mother had the exact same experience, and I can tell you you’d be hard pressed to find an AD she haven’t been on. In fact, her psychiatrist told her there’s no other medications left to try. She was constantly switched from one AD to the next over a period of no longer than 5 days to week. Eventually, through my own personal experience and the information and support I received here on BB, I discovered that they had been throwing these medications at her one after another for years to, unbeknownst to them, deal with symptoms of benzodiazepine tolerance. Over years, not one doctor ever questioned the benzo as the culprit, and she suffered terribly as a result. She’s now off the benzo’s and recovering well. 

I’m not sure why I went through that story, it just came out. 😊

I just have one question… how long has it been since you last had a reduction in dose? 
 

[Guest [...]]

19 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

just have one question… how long has it been since you last had a reduction in dose

My last reduction was 13 days ago. I reduced by .001mg. I crush and weigh my powder and put in gelatin capsules. I’ve only managed to reduce approx 2.5mg over the last 18 months. 

[Guest [...]]

24 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

m not sure why I went through that story, it just came out. 😊

Thank you for sharing. ❤️

[Guest [...]]

25 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

She’s now off the benzo’s and recovering well

I’m so glad to hear this. I know my SA friends would be shouting, “ leave your benzo for last! You won’t have anything to cover your AD taper!” But if my benzo is causing me to be in this hell for the last 20 months… I would have to wonder if it would make the taper easier? 
Would I still be able to function if I taper my benzo first? I guess I should be thankful that my dose is relatively low. .25mg 3xs a day. 
I almost requested to increase my dose last week because my symptoms were so awful. I just wanted relief. I’m glad I resisted. 

[Guest [...]]

32 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

You can make your decision once you feel more attuned to which of your medications may be posing the biggest issue.  

For the last year Plus , I’ve been telling my friends that I felt like I may be in tolerance. 
It seemed, to me, that the major WD symptoms have eased but then something more intense and “different” took its place. Does that make sense?

WS, I want to feel peace in my body and head again so badly. 
 

Is .75mg hard to taper off of? I’m sure that was an “ eye rolling” question to many. 
 

 

[Guest [...]]

There is a possibility that you may be tapering the wrong medication, and that it’s actually benzo tolerance that’s causing many of your symptoms. This is one of the things we are trying to figure out. We just want you to get past your recent stresses first. 

Many people leave the AD until last. Some even add an AD to help them through BW. 

Once off the medication, it is important to avoid beginning to taper any remaining medications until enough time has elapsed that it allows one to sufficiently recover from the previous taper. 

[Guest [...]]

It’s impossible to say how easy your taper may be, as it’s different for each individual. 

Just know that we will guide and support you through the taper process. 

All information and guidance is here waiting for you when you feel ready to take that step.

[Guest [...]]

12 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

 

It’s impossible to say how easy your taper may be, as it’s different for each individual

 

I don’t think it will be easy at all. I just pray that I can still function. It’s so important that I continue to work. 
 

[Guest [...]]

19 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

Many people leave the AD until last. Some even add an AD to help them through BW. 

This is the polar opposite of what SA tells you. Do your members tolerate the AD taper ok? 

[Guest [...]]

I am almost in tears. SA mods aren’t this supportive or responsive. I feel like I stepped into OZ. It so refreshing and it gives me hope. 

[Guest [...]]

@[Wi...] Will it take a year or so to get off .75mg? 
 

[Guest [...]]

35 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

ust know that we will guide and support you through the taper process. 

All information and guidance is here waiting for you when you feel ready to take that step.

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[Guest [...]]

15 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

There is a possibility that you may be tapering the wrong medication, and that it’s actually benzo tolerance that’s causing many of your symptoms. This is one of the things we are trying to figure out. We just want you to get past your recent stresses first. 

Many people leave the AD until last. Some even add an AD to help them through BW. 

Once off the medication, it is important to avoid beginning to taper any remaining medications until enough time has elapsed that it allows one to sufficiently recover from the previous taper. 

@[Ni...]

I think there’s a very good chance you are experiencing symptoms from both medications. 

Here’s the question I think needs to be asked - Which medication is the most problematic (symptomatically)? 

You have been tapering the AD (it’s only natural that the tapering will cause symptoms), but you are probably experiencing tolerance to the benzo, and you’re not even tapering that medication. 

Would you be better off holding your AD dose and tapering the benzo, or holding the benzo dose and continuing to taper the AD? 
 

You may be less uncomfortable holding on your current AD dose and tapering your benzo, as opposed to holding your benzo dose (in tolerance) and tapering the AD.

These are the questions I think need to be asked and figured out. 

AD’s can be difficult to taper for some members, and others, not so much. It really does differ from one individual to the next. 

If you do happen to decide to taper the Benzo, we will help devise a suitable taper plan to give you the best chance of remaining functional throughout. Many members do just that by following a sensible slow taper, holding and adjusting based on symptoms. 
 

I’m very glad to hear you feel that support and responsiveness here, Chrissy. 

That’s exactly what we are here.

You ‘should’ feel hope, and you will get through this process. Gaining that understanding of what is actually going on in your body and the reason behind it, is half the battle. 

 

[Guest [...]]

2 minutes ago, [[N...] said:

@[Wi...] Will it take a year or so to get off .75mg? 
 

I don’t think you should be thinking in terms of time, and believe me, I’m not avoiding the question. I just want you to taper at a pace that will keep you functional throughout, and to do that, it may take over a year. 
 

 

[Guest [...]]

10 minutes ago, [[W...] said:

, but you are probably experiencing tolerance to the benzo, and you’re not even tapering that medication. 

I’m not sure if you are able to answer but I’d like to ask.. will the tolerance keep getting worse, intensity wise? 
 

[Guest [...]]

Again, I don’t want to sound like I’m avoiding the question, it really is impossible to give a definitive answer, but, from what I’ve seen, yes, symptoms do tend to intensify once tolerance is reached. How fast? I think it’s different from one individual to the next. As I mentioned earlier, some people are in tolerance for years before discovering their symptoms are related to the benzo. Once tolerance has been reached though, the only real choice is to start tapering off the medication.