Tapering sleeping pill (mild benzo, low dose) - need help

[[Bl...]]

 

Hello friends!

As you can see in my signature, i jumped in july this year after taking for one month 1.5 of K and then tapering off for the next 6 months. Amazingly, i was somehow stable, not perfect but functional.

So i decided to remove 1/2 of my AD (from 50 of Luvox to 25). Still not so bad, some brain zaps and funky feeling for some days, hyperactive and mood swings but functional.

During the last 8 months i was on and off Gabepantin 100 - 200, prescribed by my psych to help with anxiety and nerve pain. The longest period on Gaba was 2 months, then stopped it then reinstated again after s***t hit the fan.

So after removing half my AD in august, i said hey, why not start tapering down my sleeping pill, Cinolazepam, a mild benzo, 20 mg (aprox 5 of Valium), prescribed altogether with K, in november last year.

So in september i removed 5 mgs (aprox 1 of Valium) in less than 2 weeks and this is where hell broke loose.

I started to have bad insomnia, mood swings, tremors, nausea on and off, inner aka on and off, huge agitation and anxiety, shortness of breath, hypnic jerks in the morning and many others.

Insomnia was so bad altogether with depression and anxiety, that one night i had to double the dose of Cinolazepam in order to get some sleep after almost one month with only 3-4 hours of broken sleep. That night it helped with insomnia, but was a bad decision because the next day, when i got back to the original dose, i went into a major withdrawal that made me almost non functional for about 2-3 weeks.

On top of the symptoms i mentioned before, i started to have huge muscle cramps, weak limbs, joint and nerve pain, especially in the afternoon, 3-4 hours before my dose of Cinolazepam that i am taking each night at 11:00 pm.

I tried to stay strong, hold the dose of 15 mgs, and deal with the symptoms. Some are gone, like shortness of breath, some are constant like tense muscle and cramps, some are on and off during the day, coming and going in a random way (lol).

I had a call with my psych doc and he said all the symptoms are transitory (lol again) and its my body adjusting to the changes I've made in 3 months (jumping from K, cutting half of my AD, cuting 25% of Cinolazepam). He introduced 3 mgs of melatonine which is really helping with my sleep and suggested to slowly taper Cinolazepam and to stay on 200 Gabapentin.

So, back to present: i am on 15 mg of Cinolazepam (a bit more than 1/4 of a pill which is aprox 3.5 of Valium), one single dose at 11 pm; 25 of Luvox and 200 Gabepantin, 100 in the morning and 100 before sleep.

I've been holding on current dose of Cinolazepam for 2 weeks and while i see some improvements, i am far less functional than i was 2 months ago.

My symptoms are:
- internal tremors
- jittery (on and off during the day)
- tension headache (on and off)
- weak limbs (constant)
- anxiety (on and off)
- inner aka or agitation, cannot make the difference (on and off)
- huge muscle cramps (i am taking Magnesium and drinking smoothies with banana, kiwis and green leaves)
- diziness (constant)
- mood changing, nervous, crying spells
- heart palps (rarely, especially in the morning)
- hyperactive vs lethargic, going from one extreme to another during the day
- depression (triggered probably by the fact that this s** is not ending) - on and off

- muscle twitching, even in my abdomen
- overall feeling of "not feeling ok"

Amazingly, my cognition somehow improved, but i still have episodes of brain fog and dp / dr.

Sorry for the long post, but at this point i dont know how to approach tapering my last 15 mgs of Cinolazepam and my doc, as usual, is not helping too much. Crossing to Valium at this point i guess would be a bad idea, considering that i am taking the equivalent of 3.5 of V which is a small dose. I was tolerating good Cinolazepam, it still helps me to calm down and ease my muscle tension when i am taking it, but i guess i have interdose withdrawals (half life is 7-8 hours) so have no idea if to hold the dose for another week or 2 or to shave my pill and slowly taper it down.

And one last mention: I've noticed that Gabapentin is helping me with anxiety but at the same time made me more jittery and weak, so and i dont know if to hold the dose or taper it down too.

Thank you again, you helped me so much tapering K and jumping!

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by [Bl...]

[[Je...]]

@[Bl...] Wow! You've got a lot going on! I'm so sorry you're experiencing all of those withdrawal symptoms. I experienced a lot of those in 2015 when I was tapering clonazepam, bupropion, citalopram, and alprazolam. One thing I figured out was that it was important for me to only taper one drug at a time. When I changed doses of more than one thing it was nearly impossible to figure out what was causing what. 

It's unfortunate that a medication can help us - like your Gabapentin - but also cause unwelcome side effects!

[[Pa...]]

@[Bl...], how did you determine the Gabapentin is causing you to be jittery and weak, and have you ever experienced interdose withdrawal with the Cinolazepam in the past?

I’m asking because I’m trying to figure out if you’d be more miserable holding all of your medications until you can hopefully stabilize of if the interdose and side effects of the Gabapentin make tapering more attractive. 

[[Bl...]]

@[Je...], yeah, my plan was to get rid of all the crap that was prescribed to me as fast as possible. Somehow i made it with K and the rest until i hit the wall. I will follow your advice and taper the benzo first, since it's the most addictive. Thank you for your feedback!

@[Pa...], i guess i didn't have interdose wd with C until i cut half the AD, or at least that was the moment when i felt that everything went downhill. 

As soon as i updosed Gaba, following my doctor's advice, anxiety got better and the rest of the neurological symtomps (pins and needles, nerve pain almost gone etc). The problem is that Gaba is numbing me, even at a small dose, i am tired, dp / dr, brain fog and the overall feeling that none of this i real. I got more dizzy and jittery - i was even before, while tapering K and AD, but now is worse. I thought was Gaba doing this but it also may be jumping from K and wd from AD. 

At this point i have no idea what monster i am facing: a wave from K, AD wd or interdose wd from Cinolazepam.

I guess Gaba is covering somehow the interdose withdrawal of Cinolazepam, but what i can say for sure is that, after taking my small dose of Cinolazepam before sleep, it makes me feel better,  my symptoms calm down, so i guess i am hooked on this small amount to make me functional, more or less.

What i am doing now is shaving 1 mg and holding for few days. Dunno if it's working but at least i feel i am not stuck in this neverending loop.

Thank you again for your kindness and feedback!

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Bl...], there are too many variables so I think it would benefit you to consider holding.  While I can see you doing your best to piece the clues together, we can’t know what is causing what without more facts to base it on.

I’m impressed with the fact you’re keeping close track of your symptoms, do you think you can do this a little while longer to see if a more solid pattern arises?  We may find it would be more beneficial to taper one of your other medications rather than the Cinolazepam, I wish I knew.

I wish I could say with confidence what you should do, but I can’t, I’m sorry. 

[[Je...]]

@[Bl...] Back in 2015 when I was tapering 3 meds, initially I started tapering my AD and klonopin at the same time, then I read somewhere - it might have been here on BB - that the klonopin might help with the withdrawal symptoms from the AD, so I stopped my klonopin taper, and then started it back up after getting off the AD. After I finished the klonopin taper, I started tapering bupropion. That order seemed to work for me, although I still had panic attacks and anxiety after my tapers were finished. Just offering this up as an experience.  

It is hard to tell what is causing what and that has to be so frustrating. If it was me, I'd try to hold everything and then when symptoms are either improving or at least not getting worse, think about changing one medication. It's really hard when you just want it to be over with, but you also want to feel as good as possible.

 

[[Bl...]]

@[Pa...], i know it's a matter of trial and error. Yesterday i split my dose in 2: 1/3 in the afternoon and the rest before sleep. I am laughing thinking that i am splitting less than 1/2 of a lousy mild pill in 3 parts but well, tapering and jumping from K in a kamikaze way - as my best benzo buddy here used to say - made me more sensitive to cuts. 

Today is the second day of split doses and while mornings are pretty rough, seems i am more stable between doses (i was able to drive, cook a bit etc - things that few days ago seemed impossible). I had few hours when my symptoms were at 2-3 out of 10.  I really hope i have found a better formula for keeping me stable and i really really really pray that splitting dose will not hit me in the next days. Anyway, i decided to hold the current dose of Cinolazepam for the next 2 weeks, while i've already cut 1/6 from my Gaba.

I will get back in some days with more details about symptoms and how it went. Fingers crossed!

@[Je...], i've read your post jump story and, if i got it good, things are going ok. I dont know you, but i am so happy when someone has a decent or even smooth landing afer jumpimg. I wish you all the best from the bottom om my heart, with healing from benzos and chemo. You are amazing going through all of this and being so strong!

[[Je...]]

@[Bl...] Thank you so much! I really hope that you are feeling better yourself! This is such a hard thing to do!

[[Bl...]]

Thank you @[Je...]and @[Pa...]! I guess i am getting a bit better with split dose. I even think i am having a sort of window, thank God! I am fluctuating during the day between 8/10 with huge brain fog, anxiety and jittery and 3-4 / 10 with hours when everything is bearable. I will hold a bit more and then get back to micro cutting at 2-3 days. I will keep you updated. 

[[Pa...]]

I’m pleased you’re seeing some positive results, but I can see your hesitancy in acknowledging it, we learn not to trust the good times, don’t we?  I think its a good idea to give it a bit more time, and thank you for keeping us updated.