Expensive Scale for Dry Microtapering

[[Pa...]]

Thanks @[cc...]. 
 

Yes, I have a horrible time with brand change too. I don’t settle.  The strength can vary from brand by 10%, and from another generic by 20%. I can’t tolerate those kind of changes. I also noticed recently when my Lyrica was changed that some of the generics have alcohol in them, which I can’t tolerate at all either.

i’ve been using a nail file to scrape as well. But I really think I need a scale. That’s more precise and goes to .0001, not just .001. Especially as I’m cutting the smaller pieces. I’m only reducing by 1-2% at a time. 
 

 

 

Edited March 10 by [Pa...]

[[cc...]]

13 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Thanks @[cc...]. 
 

Yes, I have a horrible time with brand change too. I don’t settle.  The strength can vary from brand by 10%, and from another generic by 20%. I can’t tolerate those kind of changes. I also noticed recently when my Lyrica was changed that some of the generics have alcohol in them, which I can’t tolerate at all either.

i’ve been using a nail file to scrape as well. But I really think I need a scale. That’s more precise and goes to .0001, not just .001. Especially as I’m cutting the smaller pieces. I’m only reducing by 1-2% at a time. 
 

True @[Pa...] I just didn’t know that the variance can be so much; 10-20%, wow! How do they get away with it?

Also, if you do 1-2% cut, you do need a more precise scale.

[[Co...]]

8 hours ago, [[c...] said:

True @[Pa...] I just didn’t know that the variance can be so much; 10-20%, wow! How do they get away with it?

Also, if you do 1-2% cut, you do need a more precise scale.

I think @[Pa...] was referring to how much it vary when switching brands (if one brand underdelivers and the other overdelivers on the stated nominal value).

[[cc...]]

4 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I think @[Pa...] was referring to how much it vary when switching brands (if one brand underdelivers and the other overdelivers on the stated nominal value).

@[Co...] This is what I meant too. It’s hard to image that one brand would be different from the other 10-20% For instance: if Teva packs a full 1mg per tablet, a Solco brand, can actually be packing a .9 (10%) or even less?

[[Co...]]

3 minutes ago, [[c...] said:

@[Co...] This is what I meant too. It’s hard to image that one brand would be different from the other 10-20% For instance: if Teva packs a full 1mg per tablet, a Solco brand, can actually be packing a .9 (10%) or even less?

For most medications (including benzodiazepines) the more important factor is consistency (with the particular brand). Yes, switching medication (or brands) can be disruptive, but we generally adjust to these hiccups. However, the disruption to medication manufacturing over the past few years means that some people have been switching and effectively receiving a different dose (almost) with each new prescription. That's far from ideal.

[[Pa...]]

Yes, @[Co...] @[cc...] I could be wrong, but here is what understand:

1. I understood bioavailability in generics must fall within a specific variance of brand. I thought  it’s 10%. Meaning one generic could be absorbed at a rate that’s 10% stronger than brand whereas another generic could be absorbed at a rate that’s 10% less than brand. so two different generics could hypothetically have differences of 20% in bio availability. The various fillers (which vary among brands) also affect Absorption rates.

This is what I thought. But maybe the allowed variance rate is higher? Here is how FDA defines bio equivalent:

“two products are considered to be bioequivalent if the 90% clearance (CI) of the relative mean Cmax, AUC_(0-t), and AUC_(0-∞) of the generic drug to the brand-name drug is within 80% to 125% in the fasting state.”https://www.uspharmacist.com/article/how-is-the-quality-of-a-generic-drug-evaluated

I’m sorry this is in such large fonts and bold. I didn’t intend it that way. I just cut and pasted it and don’t know how to change the format. 

Across all drugs, and this means drugs beyond benzodiazepines, the FDA claims that on average there is a 4% difference in bio availability between generics and brand. 

Not everyone is affected by these changes.  I suspect most people would settle as they might with any change in dosage. I,unfortunately, don’t. My system can only handle very small reductions (1-2%)if I want any semblance of stability. 

Because of so many upheavals in genetics, I had to resort to getting only brand-name medication in K and L. I recently went through 4 Lyrica changes in a year. Although there have been disruptions in brand-name, I have not had to encounter complete discontinuation as I have when I was on generics. This doesn’t mean brand is inherently better. And it is more expensive, which is a challenge.  I did “better” on mylan clonzapam (discontinued) than I do on brand klonopin. I suspect because it was my original script, and I was adapted to mylan. But I have been able to keep my brand constant with brand name K. 

2. Most generics are produced abroad in India. There’s been several stories published about quality control. The FDA is simply too overwhelmed to check everything coming in. But at least in USA we have “spot” checking.

 So it’s possible even the same generic brand could vary in quality. In my personal experience, I took Mylan generic clonazepam for six years, and never had an issue with efficacy. 

I’m currently using brand Klonopin. I’ve noticed in the past two months that The pills are much harder than they used to be. They used to just crumble. I’ve also noticed an uptick in my symptoms and I’m wondering whether they changed formulations. so there’s no guarantee with brand that everything stays constant as well.
I am so sensitive to everything. I don’t think most people are that way. I’ve been poly drugged for over a decade and I’m in my late 50s. I also have several chronic health issues unrelated to benzo. So suspect this all contributes to why I encounter greater issues. 
 

p

Edited March 11 by [Pa...]
Typo

[[or...]]

What's amazing to me is the fact I have had little to no wd sxs using a 15 dollar jewelry scale, and now doing .001 g cuts from my 1 mg TEVA brand of clonazepam, 3 X per month (may be off a few days here and there).  I'm only 1 year in, but I haven't lost much quality of life and now that I've learned what I can stabilize on, I doubt this will take a whole year again to finish. But as long as I've taken this benzo, even 2 years isn't too much to expect.

I've been on 1mg of C for 35 years, + my taper time here with BB.  I can tell you my small, less expensive scale can be very sensitive, but practicing, and getting to know how to cut my tablets very close to my dose-weight I want, then adding a bit, or shaving a bit, is working.

I have a tremor, tinnitus, but less and less anxiety (lots of odd sxs as well), haven't gotten really angry/scared for awhile now.  I do all my usual daily routine, plus any needed errands.

I have to keep it simple for my own well-being.  I'm not highly educated, but people here have shown me easy  ways, because they understand my limited abilities, thank goodness oregonlady, My Taper History

PS I may strive for perfection but I also can relax, and accept I probably won't get there

[[Pa...]]

@[or...] That’s great you have had a smooth taper.  Esp battling health issues, which I know isn’t easy. 

I have been using a similar method (cut and hold) which has worked for me. I really think so many Lyrica changes has destabilized me, and I am just trying to hold on, and stay alive,at this point. 
 

I think we all are doing our best, trying to support, and learn from, each other. I have no science background at all. It’s not an area that I grasp easily. So I appreciate any feedback from those that can understand this stuff better than myself. 

But the point is sometimes it isn’t all in our heads. We all have a good understanding of our bodies. 

 I was prescribed K for severe muscle spasms associated with stiff person syndrome. I also have Ehlers Danlos, ME/CFS, CCI, POTS occipital and trigiminal neuralgia, and  a rare metabolic myopathy/genetic disease. unfortunately these conditions don’t allow me to do as much as I’d like. I’ve been on SSDI since I was 44.

Before this, I was a former competitive marathon runner, so I always considered myself mentally strong. I was also an avid hiker and yoga enthusiast, etc. I miss those things, but it’s the basic things like taking a walk, visiting a park, watching my older son graduate - being able to leave my home- that have proved most challenging.  I have a younger son with similar health problems (ME/CFS, Sjogrens, CCI). So I’m under tremendous pressure to be functional for him. My partner has necrotizing myopathy and spent several months in rehab facility. He’s lost most of the muscle in his body. So just a lot to process. 

Everyone here has issues they are dealing with. We all have different coping strategies - some heathier than others. I try not to judge. As we can’t really know what another is going through. 
 

So perhaps I hyper focus on trying to control as much as possible. so much feels out of control.My Gemini scale will give me great variability in weight - the same exact pill is having a variance of .005 on my scale. So I need something more reliable as I reduce by .001.  I commented on this thread simply because I was looking for an affordable scale that might allow me to measure to 0001. I understand it may or may not help. I also accept my hypersensitivity to the smallest variations without judgement. Understanding (and acknowledging) most aren’t as sensitive.

 I try to practice self acceptance, grounding, earthing etc. I meditate a lot! But I don’t pretend that it’s always easy for me to chill 🙂
 

p

 

 

Edited March 11 by [Pa...]

[[Ma...]]

On 11/03/2024 at 07:41, [[C...] said:

I think @[Pa...] was referring to how much it vary when switching brands (if one brand underdelivers and the other overdelivers on the stated nominal value).

Is there a source for this?  I feel like I read the FDA requirement is that they could only differ by as much as 5%.  

[[cc...]]

3 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Is there a source for this?  I feel like I read the FDA requirement is that they could only differ by as much as 5%.  

@[Ma...] What I understand is that it’s not the active ingredients are less, it’s the method of breaking down. 5% makes more sense as a variance than 10-20%. Keep this live please