Expensive Scale for Dry Microtapering

[[mi...]]

Yup which is why I’m freaked out at my gut issues right now. I don’t know how to turn off my gut to relax. It’s literally en electrical circuit of nerve and muscle tension 90% of the time. I get small windows a few times a week of a few hours but even then it’s swollen just not tense. 

[[Ma...]]

Do hot liquids or heat pack help? 

[[mi...]]

Nothing helps, absolutely nothing. I've tried it all. Even yoga and stretching and stomach massage. It's just inflamed and feels like it's on fire and full of fire ants. I have never in my life felt such intense muscle/nerve sensations and pain in that area. Makes the stomach flu look like childs play.

[[Ma...]]

12 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Nothing helps, absolutely nothing. I've tried it all. Even yoga and stretching and stomach massage. It's just inflamed and feels like it's on fire and full of fire ants. I have never in my life felt such intense muscle/nerve sensations and pain in that area. Makes the stomach flu look like childs play.

I know you prob don’t want more meds but what about bentyl an antispasmodic? That sounds awful :/ 

[[...]]

I was given a name a while back of a Sartorius scale that was very accurate.

I was wondering what are the brands that you all purchased. I am willing to pay whatever price to achieve the most accurate weight. I am so very sensitive to minimal changes.

Also, I have found major variations in my .5mg of Teva Clonazepam. It’s  hard to taper when the drugs are even consistent. When the old Teva was with us, I had minimal problems, other than trying to rush a taper. 

I appreciate any feedback that I can get.

Thanks,

Dana

[[Ma...]]

[[...]]

Thank you so much, Mao. Your advise is very helpful.

I will check this out. It is has to be better than what I have. Actually, I have 2 scales. 

I need as much accuracy as I can get if I am ever going to make progress.

I’m so glad that it made a difference for you!

Dana

[[mi...]]

@[...] I ordered the Sartorius BCE64-1S Entris II Basic Essential Analytical Balance. It cost me around $1500 but it is accurate to .0001g and the last decimal point is accurate and doesn’t move every time. It’s a game changer. It’s well worth the money because if I get any worse and have to go inpatient, it’s going to cost way more than that and I won’t get well because I’ll be on more drugs. Started to feel myself stabilizing a little with some bigger windows until I stupidly, made a 2.5% cut because I got excited about how I felt and then it threw me back into hell again. As far as Mike tapering off of a small amount of the drug, especially one like Klonopin, where it is so potent at smaller doses, there’s no way to do this if you do not go to liquid unless you can handle big cuts. You simply cannot Microtaper the lower doses of that drug with the cheap Amazon scales. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by [mi...]

[[mi...]]

@[Ma...] no way to baclofen. It has some GABA interaction. I won’t take meds anymore ever. I’ve been harmed too many times. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by [mi...]

[[...]]

Mikeyjoed,

Thanks so much for the info. I believe that is the scale that was recommended to me a while back. Where did you order it from?

Yes. Klonopin is wicked to try to taper down from without a decent scale. I haven’t done well with liquid tapers. Many years I could, because the generics were consistent. Ever since the New Teva was brought back, I have not been successful.

I hope and pray that you will continue to stabilize and continue your taper.

Thanks again,

Dana

[[mi...]]

@[...] I got it from MNM Scales (https://mnmscales.com/) out of Texas. @[he...] got his there and told me about it. The sales woman Mary is amazing. Tell her Mike sent you (there's no referral commission but she will remember me since I just got it last month). She even know exactly who referred me when I mentioned my need and that I was referred. She knows a lot about it and she even matched the price he paid for me. She had it shipped out fast and it was an amazing experience. Highly recommended. Liquid was so bad for me it set me back dearly and I'm hoping to recover. Never felt so neurologically damaged in my life. I've had waves, but liquid threw me into straight acute and shocked my entire CNS. I'm just not the same person and it's been four months now. Sensory system damaged so bad. So hence the need for the micro although I probably should have gone that route before. Oh well, better now than never. I haven't had any problems with the consistency of Accord. Some have complained about it, I haven't had any issues at all. In fact, it's the only generic that has worked for me. I don't believe the ingredient isn't spread evenly, I am sensitive to microcuts, so i would for sure know if the pill was off even a hair when i file it down.

Edited November 17, 2023 by [mi...]

[[he...]]

On 17/11/2023 at 17:16, [[m...] said:

@[...] I got it from MNM Scales (https://mnmscales.com/) out of Texas. @[he...] got his there and told me about it. The sales woman Mary is amazing. Tell her Mike sent you (there's no referral commission but she will remember me since I just got it last month). She even know exactly who referred me when I mentioned my need and that I was referred. She knows a lot about it and she even matched the price he paid for me. She had it shipped out fast and it was an amazing experience. Highly recommended. Liquid was so bad for me it set me back dearly and I'm hoping to recover. Never felt so neurologically damaged in my life. I've had waves, but liquid threw me into straight acute and shocked my entire CNS. I'm just not the same person and it's been four months now. Sensory system damaged so bad. So hence the need for the micro although I probably should have gone that route before. Oh well, better now than never. I haven't had any problems with the consistency of Accord. Some have complained about it, I haven't had any issues at all. In fact, it's the only generic that has worked for me. I don't believe the ingredient isn't spread evenly, I am sensitive to microcuts, so i would for sure know if the pill was off even a hair when i file it down.

Mary was wonderful and so kind and sweet, knowing what I was doing with the scale. Glad she hooked you up, @[mi...]. She's a class act. I also did okay with Accord all the way down and also couldn't handle a liquid formulation.

[[...]]

Thanks again. Those were the people who were recommended to me for the scale.

I believe that Hereforhelp gave me that info a while back.

I will call Mary and order one. I know it will make a difference, even though my Teva is varying from batch to batch. So hard to taper when the drug is bad.

Again, thanks to both of you for the info!

Dana

[[mi...]]

Awesome! Please keep in touch and let me know how things go with the scale. You’re going to be blown away at the accuracy. The number is hardly move at all even with the air-conditioning on and pretty much lock on to the fourth decimal point every time. It’s night and day.

[[Ma...]]

On 20/11/2023 at 21:59, [[m...] said:

Awesome! Please keep in touch and let me know how things go with the scale. You’re going to be blown away at the accuracy. The number is hardly move at all even with the air-conditioning on and pretty much lock on to the fourth decimal point every time. It’s night and day.

Hey any advice? I know your on K once daily. I want to split my Ativan to at least twice a day I’m having ID w/d. So I’m at 0.207 mg or .0252 on my scale by weight.. I was planning on microtapering however I would need either a liquid or if need a scale to the fifth decimal point which doesn’t exist.. I don’t think I can get this accurate dry tapering with micro dosing right? I’d have to make bigger cuts? Because say for instance 0.0251 on the scale which is my next cut is 0.01255 x 2. I could just do even numbers I’m assuming? Like 0.0250 and 0.0248. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by [Ma...]

[[mi...]]

I don’t fully understand the math. I’m sorry, but yes, I would say you can round. Another thing you can do. If you can’t get the numbers down low enough as you can stay at the same dose for several days in a row like you don’t have to actually make a change in Macrodosing every day. You can even do the same dose for like three or four days and then move it to the next decimal point and do three or four more days. Do it however you Need. 

[[An...]]

On 19/10/2023 at 17:48, [[E...] said:

I was switched from Xanax to Ativan in late April.  Ativan initially made me feel very nauseaus.  So I rapidly cut about 42% in May, 15% in June and 11% in July.  I was doing cuts anywhere from 0.5-2% per day (at least I thought I was, given the limitations of my little jeweler's scale).  But my symptoms were increasing and horrific.  When I finally got to the point where I could barely walk, I finally made a rational decision in hold in August.  But I don't think my hold was very accurate as I was still using my old scale.  I ordered and received my new scale in early August.  I continued to hold at what I thought was my holding dose for a week with the new scale.  So, perhaps it was a combination of the hold and the new scale, but within that week I began to feel so much better.  I resumed my taper the second week of September at 1% per day.  Way too much...held for a couple of days and it resolved.  I then went down to 0.75% per day.  Still too much so held a few days and once again they resolved.  I am now at 0.5-0.65% per day for the last about 3 weeks.  I realized last night when I never did get to sleep and my tittitus ramped up that I again need to hold.  But this time, I don't think my percentage is off, I just need to schedule in more regular holds regardless, even if I am feeling OK, so my CNS has a chance to calm down.

Even though I often feel discouraged about the length of this process (even more so today as I am extra weepy), I really do appreciate having the assurance that my dose weights are accurate.  It gives me the ability to make much more rational and solid decisions about my rate of taper and times for holding.

Hope this helps!  Please post at some point after you get your scale to see how it is working for you.

When you are ready to do a small cut, do you use a file to shave pills? What happens if you shave too much? Do you toss the pill and start over?  I am happy these methods work for some but these methods would drive me mad trying to be accurate.

[[mi...]]

My wife doesn’t for me because my brain doesn’t work. If she accidentally cuts too much, she just goes into our little jar of excess pill fragments and find a piece and add it to the mix and then gets the weights to be right. It takes her about an hour or a little longer once a week to do seven days worth of pills. It’s a pain in the neck but she just watches a movie on her phone while she does it. 

[[An...]]

2 hours ago, [[m...] said:

My wife doesn’t for me because my brain doesn’t work. If she accidentally cuts too much, she just goes into our little jar of excess pill fragments and find a piece and add it to the mix and then gets the weights to be right. It takes her about an hour or a little longer once a week to do seven days worth of pills. It’s a pain in the neck but she just watches a movie on her phone while she does it. 

OIC, cool! It is great to have a person (esp. a spouse or SO) in real life to support you like this. Benzo w/d can be very hard on relationships. You are very lucky.👍

[[Ma...]]

@[mi...] hey have you heard of this guy? https://www.philosophicalfishing.com/videos-1/v/how-to-create-an-under-construction-page-nmhkn-et8z6-yg6e9
 

just saw his video on benzo belly. He said his took some time but it’s getting better. Not sure if you want to look if stuff like that makes it worse, but he offers free consults you could talk to him maybe

[[mi...]]

Hey @[Ma...] Thanks so much yeah I watched this before and it was sort of triggering. He's at 7.5 years and still struggles with it to a degree lol. I think that's on the extreme end of things. Seems like most get better over a couple of years with this.

Edited November 25, 2023 by [mi...]

[[Ma...]]

11 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Hey @[Ma...] Thanks so much yeah I watched this before and it was sort of triggering. He's at 7.5 years and still struggles with it to a degree lol. I think that's on the extreme end of things. Seems like most get better over a couple of years with this.

Yeah he makes it sound like at a year he got a lot better but he struggles with his appearance mostly at this point.  Sounds like to me he likely has dysbiosis from all the poor motility and maybe sibo and needs a diet change. But who knows. 

[[mi...]]

Yeah, maybe, honestly I think Sibo is thrown around a lot. Dysbiosis also. it’s real and a lot of people have it but I don’t think it’s everything. They’re finding out that IBS is also caused by visceral hypersensitivity in the brain where the brain sensing signals to the gut, which makes the gut act differently. Apps like Nerva and antidepressants like amatryptaline can mitigate Ibs at times. I don’t think it’s anyone particular cause, and the same goes for benzo belly. Some people probably truly do have bad bacteria because they take probiotics and get improvement. Others take probiotics and get worse. I on the other hand have always gotten worse whenever I have taken anything from my gut. In fact, the reason why I am on Klonopin full-time is because my Nacher Path doctor was convinced I had sibo and started me on flagyl. It caused a nervous system implosion, and I ended up inpatient and almost died. Then the test results came back and of course they were negative for SIBO. I’ve been told I had candida for years, and I took antifungals, herbal and prescriptions, AA, sugar-free diet, did everything and never got any improvement. Then I get on Klonopin, and before I hit tolerance every single digestive system I had went away, and I could eat whatever I want and go to the bathroom normal for the first time of my life, taking not a single other supplement which tells me my nervous system was regulated and by balancing my nervous system, everything else worked as it should. The nervous system controls everything, and if we can find a way to balance our nervous system, I will believe other things will heal. not with particular case it seems to be something unresolved at this point and maybe it is bacterial or something else. It’s tough to say.

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[m...] said:

Yeah, maybe, honestly I think Sibo is thrown around a lot. Dysbiosis also. it’s real and a lot of people have it but I don’t think it’s everything. They’re finding out that IBS is also caused by visceral hypersensitivity in the brain where the brain sensing signals to the gut, which makes the gut act differently. Apps like Nerva and antidepressants like amatryptaline can mitigate Ibs at times. I don’t think it’s anyone particular cause, and the same goes for benzo belly. Some people probably truly do have bad bacteria because they take probiotics and get improvement. Others take probiotics and get worse. I on the other hand have always gotten worse whenever I have taken anything from my gut. In fact, the reason why I am on Klonopin full-time is because my Nacher Path doctor was convinced I had sibo and started me on flagyl. It caused a nervous system implosion, and I ended up inpatient and almost died. Then the test results came back and of course they were negative for SIBO. I’ve been told I had candida for years, and I took antifungals, herbal and prescriptions, AA, sugar-free diet, did everything and never got any improvement. Then I get on Klonopin, and before I hit tolerance every single digestive system I had went away, and I could eat whatever I want and go to the bathroom normal for the first time of my life, taking not a single other supplement which tells me my nervous system was regulated and by balancing my nervous system, everything else worked as it should. The nervous system controls everything, and if we can find a way to balance our nervous system, I will believe other things will heal. not with particular case it seems to be something unresolved at this point and maybe it is bacterial or something else. It’s tough to say.

Yeah your gut and grain and highly connected.for me i never had gut issues before withdrawal. Now I have gastroparesis and because my food doesn’t move I have a shit ton of pathogenic bacteria in my small intestine and I burp constantly and feel like a grapefruit is in my gut if I even drink water. And my gut inflammatory markers are all off and I have no good gut bacteria. I also took a ton of antibiotics before all this happened and was likely the cause. Our guts synthesize the neurotransmitters needed so it’s all linked together. Vagus nerve issues also cause a lot I believe. Regardless, it all seems like it’s not an easy fix and that’s what’s super fucking annoying. We prob only know about 3% of how the human body works yet we can fly to the moon 🙄

[[mi...]]

Yeah I told my wife that. I said we can put a man on the moon but we don’t know what’s happening with our bodies. Yeah I would agree that since food doesn’t move right it causes bacteria issues for sure. When you say your food doesn’t move do you mean you don’t actually have bowel movements every day? People use the word gastroparesis a lot and I know the sensation of being full and not having a lot of food and stuff that moves, I get that, but I don’t fully understand it. I mean my stomach feels tight all the time like I don’t want to eat, but then yesterday I ate like a full plate of rice and three eggs, half a bag of tortilla chips and salsa, And then I ate a full plate of smoked ham. My stomach felt exactly the same afterwards. Just because I have this sensation of it being full it isn’t full and I had two ball movements this morning. So I don’t really know what’s going on but I get severe cramping and tightness everywhere. Eating does not seem to make me feel worse. It just feels bad randomly when it wants to , but I will say I have severe brain, fog and toxic feelings in my head that I did not have before my gut went crazy so I’m sure the bacteria is all going crazy down there. I feel like there is pressure inside my stomach and inside my gut at various places and it moves around. And sometimes I have no appetite or desire to eat, but it doesn’t seem to actually slow my food down. I mean, how do you tell that your food is slowing down, is it from constipation? Because I don’t get constipated I just feel horribly crampy. The worst part about this is I had no problem at all eating anything for two years until I change brand and stabilized. In fact, my digestion was better than it has been in a long time and I could eat a massive plate of food and I would feel fine right afterwards and then I would go to the bathroom the next day on queue. I still go to the bathroom every morning, sometimes it’s easier than others, but I never have to strain. I just can’t get the cramping and bloating to stop and the constant gas pressure. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by [mi...]