Expensive Scale for Dry Microtapering

[[Ma...]]

I would think vodka is a pretty terrible idea since alcohol and benzos are a big no no.  I was told to draw off fluid from the middle of the suspension after it was shaken and cloudy.  I can see where this would not work if you waited a couple minutes and more of the insoluble material would be at the bottom.  Would the pharmacist know about better suspension agents?  I’ve never heard of anything else being used.  

[[Li...]]

Hello @[Ma...].  Perhaps of interest:

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension in OraPlus/Sweet or OraBlend
https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

 

0.2mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension in SyrSpend
https://ijpc.com/Abstracts/Abstract.cfm?ABS=4125

Clonazepam 0.1-mg/mL in Methylcellulose 1% Solution and Preserved Syrup
https://compoundingtoday.com/Formulation/FormulaInfo.cfm?ID=2897

 

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[L...] said:

Hello @[Ma...].  Perhaps of interest:

0.1mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension in OraPlus/Sweet or OraBlend
https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/-/media/nch/specialties/pharmacy/compounding-formulas/clonazepam-oral.ashx

0.2mg/mL Clonazepam Oral Suspension in SyrSpend
https://ijpc.com/Abstracts/Abstract.cfm?ABS=4125

Clonazepam 0.1-mg/mL in Methylcellulose 1% Solution and Preserved Syrup
https://compoundingtoday.com/Formulation/FormulaInfo.cfm?ID=2897

Thanks @[Li...] this sounds similar to what I do.  So far so good. 🙂

[[Ma...]]

On 19/10/2023 at 13:00, [[m...] said:

@[El...] so what were your symptoms like before you got the scale and how did they improve when you got it? I was very stable using the scale for a year and a half and a series of brand changes and failed liquid trials through me into acute withdrawal, and I’ve been that way for almost 4 months now after having a very easy taper. I cannot stabilize myself at all now and as I am getting lower in my dose, currently at .154 mg Clonopin, the variations in dose are affecting me even more so I have to switch to my tapering to stabilize. There’s just no other way. Even my smallest cut right now is 1.8%  and my body can’t even handle that right now. I feel a shock in my system and I start to have massive, shaking episodes and it’s just terrible. I even feel that between cut because my daily dose is not even. I’m hoping that if I can keep that completely steady every day , my body will stop reacting and will eventually settle down 

How are you making out? 

[[mi...]]

I noticed my sleep has improved a lot, feel a smoothness to things and less of a shock to my body. GI symptoms still terrible unfortunately. SO much nerve pain in abdomen I can't bear it. But I didn't feel much heat from the microtapering in terms of sypmtoms and after about a week and a half i started having some really nice windows. Then I got stupid and did a 2.5% cut because I was like this is too slow and all hell broke loose. So back to microtapering. I think I will need to do this for several months to see how it really works on settling down my CNS.

[[Ma...]]

1 hour ago, [[m...] said:

I noticed my sleep has improved a lot, feel a smoothness to things and less of a shock to my body. GI symptoms still terrible unfortunately. SO much nerve pain in abdomen I can't bear it. But I didn't feel much heat from the microtapering in terms of sypmtoms and after about a week and a half i started having some really nice windows. Then I got stupid and did a 2.5% cut because I was like this is too slow and all hell broke loose. So back to microtapering. I think I will need to do this for several months to see how it really works on settling down my CNS.

What percentage are you microtapering by? Iv been trying to do 2.5% a week the last three weeks and since having the more accurate scale I’m stabilizing a little bit 

[[mi...]]

I just tried a 2.5% cut and it destabilized me so bad. Microtapering I did .18%/day for a week so like 1.25% a week. I seemed to be able to handle that. So I’ll probably go back to that. I am so sensitized and kindled right now I need to keep things extremely stable and level and slow. 

[[Ma...]]

25 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

I just tried a 2.5% cut and it destabilized me so bad. Microtapering I did .18%/day for a week so like 1.25% a week. I seemed to be able to handle that. So I’ll probably go back to that. I am so sensitized and kindled right now I need to keep things extremely stable and level and slow. 

Yeah that sounds like a good taper schedule. I am kindled too. I’m finding the more i come down on the Ativan the worse my side effects to my ssri are. And the worse my dysautonomia symptoms are getting. I think I jinxed myself because the past hour Iv been struck by adrenaline. My next cut I may decrease to 1.25% too

[[mi...]]

How often are you doing it....every day? I just trialed 7 days and did ok, symptoms didn't get better but didn't get worse. Then I noticed I was getting a little revved up so i held for 3 days and then did another small micro cut and had a massive window that was so so good. Then was like hell let's just make a big cut i want off this stuff and i did a 2.5% and felt good for about 18 hours and then got severe agitation and lost my mind. My biggest issue right now is my gut....the cramps and spasms and associated brain fog is so severe I can't cope. When they relax and i pass gas I'm a new person. I felt peace when I started microtapering, like i didn't feel the shock of a regular cut. In the past when I was stable a 3% cut would make me feel high and on top of the world for a week, then I'd get hit after a week. This time it's making me agitated and suicidal thoughts when I cut, like within a day or even hours. Then it cycles rapidly for a week and then settles down to waves and windows. So I can't do that shock anymore. I need to tease the CNS and not shock it. But if I hold all my symptoms get worse. I got kindled by brand changes that made me have massive symptom swings and threw me into acute. I was so stable and healthy before hand. I'm at .157mg now but at this rate Im 3+ years from getting off which sounds insane. How about you?

[[Ma...]]

11 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

How often are you doing it....every day? I just trialed 7 days and did ok, symptoms didn't get better but didn't get worse. Then I noticed I was getting a little revved up so i held for 3 days and then did another small micro cut and had a massive window that was so so good. Then was like hell let's just make a big cut i want off this stuff and i did a 2.5% and felt good for about 18 hours and then got severe agitation and lost my mind. My biggest issue right now is my gut....the cramps and spasms and associated brain fog is so severe I can't cope. When they relax and i pass gas I'm a new person. I felt peace when I started microtapering, like i didn't feel the shock of a regular cut. In the past when I was stable a 3% cut would make me feel high and on top of the world for a week, then I'd get hit after a week. This time it's making me agitated and suicidal thoughts when I cut, like within a day or even hours. Then it cycles rapidly for a week and then settles down to waves and windows. So I can't do that shock anymore. I need to tease the CNS and not shock it. But if I hold all my symptoms get worse. I got kindled by brand changes that made me have massive symptom swings and threw me into acute. I was so stable and healthy before hand. I'm at .157mg now but at this rate Im 3+ years from getting off which sounds insane. How about you?

Ugh I’m so sorry your going through it. Have you seen a GI? Maybe you have low stomach acid? I’m having gastroparesis symptoms with low acid and SIBO from all of this. I was doing 5% cuts at first and crashing so hard almost hospitalized after every cut. I didn’t realize it was 5% because it seemed so small I was cutting. I’m down to 0.207 mg Ativan, idk the comparison to k that is.. I handled the first 2.5% cuts ok but I just cut this morning and I’m feeling adrenaline.. it could be my lady cycle though. God I wish I was a man.. our hormones interact with GABA and serotonin so it makes tapering so fucking hard. Do you find your scale is that accurate to make cuts that small? I considered that, but if I stop tolerating 2.5% I may to 1.25% or micro taper but I’m dry cutting and constantly wasting pills because they crumble sometimes and I’m too afraid to weigh powder

[[mi...]]

Yeah, 5% would kill me right now. 2.5% had me going crazy and throwing stuff and screaming and swearing and I’m not like that at all. This is so crazy. This drug can do this. Before I stabilized I was completely stable and functioning and working for a year and a half while I tapered. Klonopin is twice as potent as Ativan so I am on .157 of Klonopin which is .314 of Ativan approximately. So basically, I have to go twice as slow as you. I’m not going to AGI because I know this is nerves and muscles. Plus what are they going to do? Give me a pill, I’m not gonna take it because I’ll react. I am able to go to the bathroom just fine, it’s nerve pain and trapped, gas and horrible muscle spasms and cramps that are inhumane. I can feel the muscles in my pelvis yanking on my spine And doing things that there’s no way they should be able to do. my scale can go down to four decimal points so if I do a .0001 reduction that is .18% right now so if I do that five days in a row and then hold for two days that gets me about one percent for the week so that will give me about 4% for the month and then as I get lower that percentage will gradually rise which is what I want and then if I ever have to reduce all I do is I just cut maybe four days and hold for three days if the number gets too big and that’s how I reduce my monthly cut. Unlike you, I can feel the adrenaline from a cut almost right away. I would say within six hours of cutting. I feel adrenaline, it shouldn’t work that way, but it really does. It used to serve me well, and I would feel so good when I would do it like I felt adrenaline and endorphins and almost high but now it’s having the opposite effect and making me agitated and almost psychotic. Plus, it causes my G.I. pain to get so much worse. When I go, I don’t get the adrenaline. It doesn’t hit my system all at once, every day I get a little bit of a reduction, so it’s like my body doesn’t overreact and send out all these hormones or whatever it does to rev me up. As the week goes on, I start to feel adrenaline picking up a little bit so then I hold and it settles back down. It’s actually worked pretty well for me so far doing it this way for that one week that I tried. Obviously, I don’t have a big sample size but it worked a lot better than cutting and holding.  my problem is if I hold any meaningful time my symptoms get significantly worse. The drug has turned on me and it’s not making me sick. I never felt good on the drug. I only ever felt good when I would cut and then I would feel horrible as long as I held afterwards, but I just kept cutting to stay ahead of things. But yeah, holding makes me 10 times worse, I used to take Ativan as needed for years before I got dependent, and Ativan always made me feel amazing when I took it. It just settled me down and I could sleep and it turned off my mind. I loved it. Klonopin I have never loved but they had to switch me to it because I was having intrados withdrawal on Ativan and now I am just trying to taper off this shit. I’ve been doing it for two years and I probably have at least another three years to go. How about you? 

[[Ma...]]

4 hours ago, [[m...] said:

Yeah, 5% would kill me right now. 2.5% had me going crazy and throwing stuff and screaming and swearing and I’m not like that at all. This is so crazy. This drug can do this. Before I stabilized I was completely stable and functioning and working for a year and a half while I tapered. Klonopin is twice as potent as Ativan so I am on .157 of Klonopin which is .314 of Ativan approximately. So basically, I have to go twice as slow as you. I’m not going to AGI because I know this is nerves and muscles. Plus what are they going to do? Give me a pill, I’m not gonna take it because I’ll react. I am able to go to the bathroom just fine, it’s nerve pain and trapped, gas and horrible muscle spasms and cramps that are inhumane. I can feel the muscles in my pelvis yanking on my spine And doing things that there’s no way they should be able to do. my scale can go down to four decimal points so if I do a .0001 reduction that is .18% right now so if I do that five days in a row and then hold for two days that gets me about one percent for the week so that will give me about 4% for the month and then as I get lower that percentage will gradually rise which is what I want and then if I ever have to reduce all I do is I just cut maybe four days and hold for three days if the number gets too big and that’s how I reduce my monthly cut. Unlike you, I can feel the adrenaline from a cut almost right away. I would say within six hours of cutting. I feel adrenaline, it shouldn’t work that way, but it really does. It used to serve me well, and I would feel so good when I would do it like I felt adrenaline and endorphins and almost high but now it’s having the opposite effect and making me agitated and almost psychotic. Plus, it causes my G.I. pain to get so much worse. When I go, I don’t get the adrenaline. It doesn’t hit my system all at once, every day I get a little bit of a reduction, so it’s like my body doesn’t overreact and send out all these hormones or whatever it does to rev me up. As the week goes on, I start to feel adrenaline picking up a little bit so then I hold and it settles back down. It’s actually worked pretty well for me so far doing it this way for that one week that I tried. Obviously, I don’t have a big sample size but it worked a lot better than cutting and holding.  my problem is if I hold any meaningful time my symptoms get significantly worse. The drug has turned on me and it’s not making me sick. I never felt good on the drug. I only ever felt good when I would cut and then I would feel horrible as long as I held afterwards, but I just kept cutting to stay ahead of things. But yeah, holding makes me 10 times worse, I used to take Ativan as needed for years before I got dependent, and Ativan always made me feel amazing when I took it. It just settled me down and I could sleep and it turned off my mind. I loved it. Klonopin I have never loved but they had to switch me to it because I was having intrados withdrawal on Ativan and now I am just trying to taper off this shit. I’ve been doing it for two years and I probably have at least another three years to go. How about you? 

I’m so sorry  how long hAve you been on benzos total? Seems like your way of doing it now seems pretty good. It makes sense that holding makes you worse. Are you taking it multiple times a day? I’m on Ativan once daily. But I take Lunesta at 9pm which basically is benzo lol. I was on ssri for 18 years and they ct me and I ended up on Ativan and Lunesta due to severe akathisia and severe ssri withdrawal. Iv been on Ativan 5 months and tapering for 3. I haven’t gone too far in my taper unfortunately. As I’m coming down idk if it’s benzo wirhdrawal or the ssri witjdrawal peeking through as the ativsn was helping with it. What did your ID wirhdrawal feel like? I have no idea what’s happenenjng to me. I take my ssri at 8 am and 8 pm. Ativan at 6:30 am. Between 4-7 pm I get severe burning sinuses, nose, eyes, mouth, adrenaline, feels like my brain is being ripped out then it goes away before I take my ssri or my Lunesta at night. I feel like if this was ID withdrawal it wouldn’t go away until I took a benzo. It’s awful

 

are you able to eat? Iv lost so much weight from the gastroparesis that started after I stopped the ssri. Even though I reinstated 6 months ago at higher dose than Iv ever been on the damage is done. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by [Ma...]

[[mi...]]

When I went on Ativan daily two years ago, within a month, I was getting severe intrados withdrawal. I was taking it just at bedtime and I would wake up in severe panic that would last all day until about dinner time. When they put me on Klonopin, it all went away. I just take it once a day. I don’t feel fluctuations or introduce on this. I’m not on any other medication’s. I just want off so bad but it’s gonna take me a while. So what exactly is gastroparesis and what does it do to you. 

[[Ma...]]

13 hours ago, [[m...] said:

When I went on Ativan daily two years ago, within a month, I was getting severe intrados withdrawal. I was taking it just at bedtime and I would wake up in severe panic that would last all day until about dinner time. When they put me on Klonopin, it all went away. I just take it once a day. I don’t feel fluctuations or introduce on this. I’m not on any other medication’s. I just want off so bad but it’s gonna take me a while. So what exactly is gastroparesis and what does it do to you. 

Your nervous system is shot and your gut doesn’t move. So your food just sits there and it causes my body to send out a ton of adrenaline to try and digest my food and I can barely eat or drink and I throw up a lot

[[mi...]]

I got digestive issues four months ago out of nowhere. Painful gas and cramping and severe bloating in distention. I look like I’m nine months pregnant. I immediately went from eating kind of normal to not being able to eat much of anything. I wouldn’t say that I have any allergies or sensitivities it’s more I feel incredibly uncomfortable with a thought of putting food in my gut when it feels like it’s paralyzed. I lost my appetite back in July and after about two months I had a couple of weeks where I got my appetite back and started to eat a lot more food and then it went away again and I haven’t been able to eat much for the last month or two. My weight has stabilized about 30 pounds lower than my norm, but I just don’t have an appetite and my stomach is always pushing out really far and it’s hard intense. And the trapped gas and the cramping is out of this world. Painful. So bad I feel like it’s ripping my spine and my pelvis to shreds how tight everything is. This is so crazy that can do this . I generally have a normal movement every morning which is crazy but after I go to the bathroom I feel like I haven’t gone because the cramping just gets worse. Every once in a while at night or at some point during the day, everything relax and I’ll pass gas and it will all come out and I will feel settled and mentally happy. It’s really hard to explain , but the second thing is tighten up I get this horrible mental state that comes over me and immediately I don’t think right and I don’t feel right and everything feels horrible and the SI thoughts get worse. I tapered for two years without any of these symptoms and then when they change my generic brand, I lost my appetite and crashed, but I didn’t have any pain and then when they switched me to liquid, my nervous system went completely crazy and every symptom in the book showed up including severe digestive stuff and it hasn’t left me since. It’s like I could eat at restaurants and be normal and then the next day I couldn’t. In fact, I had 15 wings and a bunch of barbecue one day and I took liquid at night and a blew up my nervous system in the next day. I couldn’t eat anything and it’s been almost that way every day since. I haven’t been into a restaurant in four months. I do digest my food. I come out. And it’s not difficult most days. It just doesn’t give me the sensation that I’m empty even though I know that I am. But I have no appetite and I don’t know why. It got worse this past week when I did that big cut. Hopefully micro tapering will allow my nervous system to settle down a little bit so I can continue to eat more food, I don’t know if this is going to be with me the rest of my two or three year taper or if this doesn’t go away until well after I am off. Some people it seems to get better as they get lower, some it gets worse when they get off, some it last indefinitely. I have no quality of life with my stomach like this, absolutely none so I don’t know what to expect 

[[Ma...]]

13 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

I got digestive issues four months ago out of nowhere. Painful gas and cramping and severe bloating in distention. I look like I’m nine months pregnant. I immediately went from eating kind of normal to not being able to eat much of anything. I wouldn’t say that I have any allergies or sensitivities it’s more I feel incredibly uncomfortable with a thought of putting food in my gut when it feels like it’s paralyzed. I lost my appetite back in July and after about two months I had a couple of weeks where I got my appetite back and started to eat a lot more food and then it went away again and I haven’t been able to eat much for the last month or two. My weight has stabilized about 30 pounds lower than my norm, but I just don’t have an appetite and my stomach is always pushing out really far and it’s hard intense. And the trapped gas and the cramping is out of this world. Painful. So bad I feel like it’s ripping my spine and my pelvis to shreds how tight everything is. This is so crazy that can do this . I generally have a normal movement every morning which is crazy but after I go to the bathroom I feel like I haven’t gone because the cramping just gets worse. Every once in a while at night or at some point during the day, everything relax and I’ll pass gas and it will all come out and I will feel settled and mentally happy. It’s really hard to explain , but the second thing is tighten up I get this horrible mental state that comes over me and immediately I don’t think right and I don’t feel right and everything feels horrible and the SI thoughts get worse. I tapered for two years without any of these symptoms and then when they change my generic brand, I lost my appetite and crashed, but I didn’t have any pain and then when they switched me to liquid, my nervous system went completely crazy and every symptom in the book showed up including severe digestive stuff and it hasn’t left me since. It’s like I could eat at restaurants and be normal and then the next day I couldn’t. In fact, I had 15 wings and a bunch of barbecue one day and I took liquid at night and a blew up my nervous system in the next day. I couldn’t eat anything and it’s been almost that way every day since. I haven’t been into a restaurant in four months. I do digest my food. I come out. And it’s not difficult most days. It just doesn’t give me the sensation that I’m empty even though I know that I am. But I have no appetite and I don’t know why. It got worse this past week when I did that big cut. Hopefully micro tapering will allow my nervous system to settle down a little bit so I can continue to eat more food, I don’t know if this is going to be with me the rest of my two or three year taper or if this doesn’t go away until well after I am off. Some people it seems to get better as they get lower, some it gets worse when they get off, some it last indefinitely. I have no quality of life with my stomach like this, absolutely none so I don’t know what to expect 

I’m so sorry! That’s crazy the liquid did that to you.. that’s why I’m so afraid to switch and so afraid to split my Ativan dose. Iv lost 20 lb and am now underweight and some points of my menstrual cycle I can’t eat or drink at all. Iv ended up needing iv fluids. 
 

have you tried simethicone for the gas? I also get crazy cortisol rushes the day my gut is bad. After I try and eat I feel extreme fear, depression, panic, si like everything is wrong in my life. If you don’t mind me asking are you made or female? If female, do you cycle?

[[mi...]]

I am male, so thankfully, I don’t have to deal with that but I heard it’s a nightmare for those who do. Do you ever find that when you pass gas, you feel relief from mental symptoms. I do almost entirely. The state of my gut is basically the terming factor of my mood and my neurological state. Unless it’s my neurological state dictating my gut. It’s a two-way street so I don’t know what’s happening. I miss eating food.

[[Ma...]]

21 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

I am male, so thankfully, I don’t have to deal with that but I heard it’s a nightmare for those who do. Do you ever find that when you pass gas, you feel relief from mental symptoms. I do almost entirely. The state of my gut is basically the terming factor of my mood and my neurological state. Unless it’s my neurological state dictating my gut. It’s a two-way street so I don’t know what’s happening. I miss eating food.

Nope I don’t but I know a guy who when he uses the bathroom his mental state improves. When my food finally digests, my mental state improves. Id legit not eat and starve myself but my ssri needs 400 calories to be absorbed and I take it twice a day. Fml. But my entire mood is dependent on my gut 100%. Iv had endoscopy, mri abdomen, ultrasound, Ct scan, a stool test that showed I had like minimal good bacteria and now awaiting a SIBO test. But it’s all neurological. SUCKS. Your not alone

[[mi...]]

Yes my entire mood is dependent on my gut, 100%. It's horrible. Before this crash in June when I would have a bowel movement I would feel amazing all day. Now even when I go I get zero relief at all. Im not doing any scans or scopes....most people say it's all normal when they have those done. And my gut bacteria has to be normal, I pool completely normal every day. It's all neurological so even if they find something wrong what's the point, it won't get better until the neuro settles down.

[[Ma...]]

45 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

Yes my entire mood is dependent on my gut, 100%. It's horrible. Before this crash in June when I would have a bowel movement I would feel amazing all day. Now even when I go I get zero relief at all. Im not doing any scans or scopes....most people say it's all normal when they have those done. And my gut bacteria has to be normal, I pool completely normal every day. It's all neurological so even if they find something wrong what's the point, it won't get better until the neuro settles down.

Yep. I did this early on because I had no idea it was wirhdrawal. I was so stupid lol. Hey did you ever get headaches, burning dry mouth/eyes/nose/sinuses with Ativan interdose withdrawal or heard of people with that? I think I might start splitting my Ativan I’m just so nervous. It’s such a small dose to dry cut .1 mg or .07 if I did three times a day. I can’t believe this small of a dose is effing me up this much I just want my life back. R u working? I had my dream job and had to quit 

[[mi...]]

No, I never had those. Yeah I had to quit my dream job in June. I worked the first two years of my paper without a problem and then the bottom fell out and now I can’t. 

[[Ma...]]

20 minutes ago, [[m...] said:

No, I never had those. Yeah I had to quit my dream job in June. I worked the first two years of my paper without a problem and then the bottom fell out and now I can’t. 

Ugh. I feel you.

[[Ma...]]

Well Iv got sibo. So now I need antibiotics and it’ll probably reoccur because my gut isn’t moving 

[[mi...]]

I can’t ever take abx again. They thought I had Sibo and I took flagyl and it put me inpatient and suicidal with a 9 month terror episode. It’s what got me hooked on benzos in the first place. Sad part is when the test results came back Sibo was negative so this hell all started for nothing.

Edited November 16, 2023 by [mi...]

[[Ma...]]

OMG! thats awful. Thats what started all of this? Honestly, I took 6 rounds of antibiotics last year and then I became hypersensitive to literally everything which made my docs ct my ssri and thats what started all of this. Your gut and brain are soooo connected.