Xanax tapering

[[Pa...]]

5 minutes ago, [[J...] said:

Can a few mg of Ambien take away a benzo withdrawal?

Yes.  Professor Ashton estimated 20 mgs of Ambien is equivalent to about 10 mgs of Valium.

[[Je...]]

You are a angel pamster. I have plenty ambien to make up no extra valium at thus time. And I believe you are correct. I should come off Ambien at same time. You recommend something safer for insomnia? Thank you . You are a Angel.

[[Pa...]]

1 minute ago, [[J...] said:

You are a angel pamster. I have plenty ambien to make up no extra valium at thus time. And I believe you are correct. I should come off Ambien at same time. You recommend something safer for insomnia? Thank you . You are a Angel.

Be careful with Ambien, its a hypnotic and will cause memory loss, no scratch that, if you take it during the day, you won’t even form a memory, you may go about your day wide awake but have no memory of what you did or who you talked to.  The warnings from the manufacturer are real, you can eat, drink, speak, drive and do other activities while having no memory of them, it’s very dangerous.  

This member has written extensively about insomnia. 

 

[[Je...]]

I must say I had 1000s of 10mg oxycodone. I would rather come off that again than these benzos that I only used for 5 orc6 weeks. But we must remember everytime come off of anything it will be worse and worse next time no matter what coming off of. 

[[Je...]]

Mine has been around 10 months.  I have the 12.5 mg of extended release. I cut them in half though. 

[[Je...]]

Pamster, I sure like your input, you make very good points.  This forum is blessed to have you here.. 

[[Je...]]

It worked. Took around 4mg of Ambien and ALL withdrawl symptoms are gone. Thanks.  Pamster

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Je...], I’d like to talk about the timeline you described in your first post on this thread, I’m starting to wonder if the Ambien was the cause of your panic attacks.  Have you ever had them before and do you believe you were recovered from your Oxycodone taper when you started having them?

The reason I ask is because once we become dependent on these drugs, they begin to cause the very thing we went on them to fix like insomnia, anxiety and panic.  

[[VI...]]

4 hours ago, [[J...] said:

Thanks for your reply. Can a few mg of Ambien take away a benzo withdrawal? Anybody know? Or would just a sliver, like HALF of a .125 of Xanax be ok?  just enough to remove severe withdrawal? Can't touch my next dose (5) mg of Valium until 9 pm. Thanks. Not trying to dump out my pity pot, but I am a 60 year old concrete worker that has had 10 different surgeries. Both ankles, both shoulders, right knee, 4 hernia surgeries, septoplasty surgery. Several broken bones, and in past 3 months found out I have spinal stenosis in neck, moderate to severe C3C4C5C6And C7. With mild scoliosis in middle of back, and new MRI of lower back with L2L3L4L5and S1 all have mild to moderate bulging disc and L456 have ferimornal stenosis, and S1 L5and L4 have arthritis. And groin hernia I had 5 months ago is now having nerve pain, and to top it all off when twisted bad 2 months ago I know also have some sort of neuropathy if feet. BURNING Teribly. While going through all this. Boy the burning feetvis the worst of anything I have ever had, know it can't be fixed. Wow. 

Yes it can in some amount I'd imagine. But I'd leave that unchanged like everyone is saying. I've kind of been using the "rescue' method as part of my titration. It seems to be working better, adding in just the bare minimum of xanax, wherever you feel like you need it the most. Plus while switching to valium, I think if I was reading correctly, you should either have some loading doses at the beginning, or still should be having some of the, in your case, xanax involved until the blood level serums level out from the valium which takes a bit to build in. I'm in the same boat in believe as you. No matter how low we go, or what we do, you don't escape 100% free. I've been through treatment centers before, been through the deal. You never escape it pain free. You gotta work for it. The hot shower trick is the oldest one in the book. I think I spent 50% of one of my stints in treatment in the hot shower. The gabapentin should help with the neuropathy some. I remember they used to give us that, but in such large amounts it was nuts. It would shut the restless legs down completely though. I'll give em that, but def causes another issue of its own at such large amounts. I feel fortunate because I have some extra tools to work with to help drop these doses down. It seems to have been working, but I haven't been doing anything crazy like liquid measuring or powder measuring yet. Just titration basically what I can tolerate, and kind of what's forced on me, as I'm still .25-.5 above what my docs prescribing. She wouldn't quite prescribe to where I told her my tolerance was, so I've had to make the decision gotta get there as quickly/comfortably as possible, since I'm seeing here weekly, I'm hoping I can do that by this Wednesday. If I can't no biggie. I got the extras I need to do it myself. Ultimately, like I said, wanna get ahead of my doc like I am with my bupe. Way ahead I have years of it stashed up. Eventually want off of that too, but the Xanax thing is the most important and recent problem to me. That's the one that's gotta get dealt with first. 

[[Je...]]

Hello Pam. Thanks for all your replies. I started the Ambien at the very end of my taper from Oxycodone. Could not sleep. All of the Oxy helped me to sleep when ever I wanted. But it also gave me energy. Now after having those withdrawl symptoms today, and than taking around 3mg of Ambien and they went away. Now leads me believe like you said, much of my withdrawl symptoms in the past couple weeks is probably mostly because of the Ambien giving me the withdrawls. You were right. Now I know why the Ambien in the past few months has not been working as good and at times I have had headaches also. Never thought it was the Ambien.  I have been taking around 9 or 10 months. You know, I never really felt addiction to Xanax, only 6 weeks of use or the Ambien. Neither ever gave me a high like Oxycodone. So please help. Can you send me the link that shows equivalent from Ambien to Valium. Please. I need to do what you said from beginning and get off both at same time, using Valium. Any SAFE sleeping pill you could recommend? Doxepin, or Trazadone? Etc. Thanks Pam

[[Pa...]]

HI @[Je...], this is the table of equivalencies Professor Ashton used for her patients. https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

I’m not sure crossing to Valium is your best option though, you’ve been on the Xanax for such a short time, I’d hate to see you make the cross-over because it will extend your time on the drug.  And to tell you the truth, most members will directly taper their Ambien.  Some can go even faster than the 5-10% rate we suggest.  I stopped it cold turkey and it was nothing like my cold turkey from Klonopin, it was easy compared to that. I’m not suggesting you quit cold turkey, I’m just letting you know that even though Ambien is a close cousin to benzodiazepines and can cause the same issues, many people find it’s easier to discontinue. 

If you do decide to make the transition to Valium and your doctor is willing to prescribe Valium (and that’s a big if), then you may find the sedation the drug is known for may be enough to help you sleep.  There are some medications members use with varying degrees of success but not much can touch benzo caused insomnia.  This member has written a great deal on the subject, you may find some of his tips helpful. 

 

[[Je...]]

Thank you Pamster. Today I was having some pretty bad withdrawal symptoms.  But I went outside with my wife and out up Halloween Decorations for 4 hours. Felt withdrawls through the whole 4 hours, but, about 15 minutes after we came in the withdrawals went away. It was awesome. Winning these little battles sure brings confidence into this mind in my head, that runs like a cats mind. Thanks for your feedback.  Hope your weekend is going good. God Bless.  Jerry

[[An...]]

On 21/10/2023 at 16:23, [[J...] said:

Pamster, I sure like your input, you make very good points.  This forum is blessed to have you here.. 

I agree. Pam is a walking How-to_Best_WithdrawFrom_Benzos & ZDrugs_Encyclopedia  😁

[[Je...]]

Hello everyone.  Something don't seem right. My last Xanax was Wednesday, about 1/2 mg. My psychiatrist put me on 5 mg of Valium. I started that Wednesday night. (Also I do take Ambien, two times daily, 6.5 mg night and 6.5 mg day because of work schedule, been taking Ambien for 10 months.) I know I have mentioned this in earlier post, but just wanted to be clear. My Xanax use was only 5 weeks, anywhere from 1/2 mg to 3/4 mg nightly. Since my psychiatrist switched me it has been difficult. The first day, (Thursday) was actually good day. Friday felt more of Xanax type withdrawal symptoms. Saturday was even worse for around 5 hours. And today even worse around 4 hours in day and again tonight. Man, I was so happy Thursday when symptoms were pretty much gone from switching to Valium . Anybody have this experience switching to Valium. Is my psychiatrist not giving me enough? I still have alot of Xanax, but afraid to touch it, to help with withdrawal.  She never weaned me from Xanax to Valium. Seems like symptoms I was having before Valium, like when having interdose withdrawl from Xanax only once nightly.  This has me concerned. Even having chest burning again. Blood pressure is good, so is pulse and temperature. Any thoughts or advice? Thanks. Jerry

[[Je...]]

Update. The 5mg Valium that I was prescribed I know does work, but I believe now for sure my Psychiatrist did not prescribe enough. The Ashton manual says I should be getting 10mg. Well, I am taking my 5mg at bedtime, as directed to.  I just took my 5mg a little bit ago , and within 20 minutes I felt 100% better. I need one at night and one at day. I have a extremely high metabolism. My body metabolizes everything very fast. I could eat a whole pack of Bubble gum and it would come out the next morning. Lol. Just kidding. But, me food does digest that fast. Will be speaking with psychiatrist tomorrow.  I want to be clear. I DONT WANT ANY MORE BENZOS FOR PURPOSE OF EUPHORIA.  These withdrawls have been intense since not prescribed correct amount of Valium. In fact that is the thing I suppose I did not understand at first when they say that Benzos and Z drugs are very addictive.  I am a recovered alcoholic/addict, that got clean and sober 25 years ago. My drugs of choice though were Free basing Cocaine and snorting crank, and drink 24 packs of beer daily by myself.  Ofcourse the crank definitely made it to where I could drink that much and not even get a buzz from the alcohol. I say this because I never took Ambien or Xanax for euphoria, never once even took a benzo in my days of using drugs. If there were no evil  withdrawals from these drugs I would not be concerned at all. Now I am blabbing. I still have 100% confidence that I will get over these evil medications and will never touch them again. You know what is interesting, is that the drugs that work the best for anxiety ( benzos) and insomnia ( z drugs) are the most addictive and harmful to our bodies. Well. Have a good night everyone. I will update tomorrow on what psychiatrist says. 

[[Gr...]]

@[Je...] You took only 5mg Valium and it helped? I tried 4mg and I got a headache and burning in my chest. 2mg knocked me out, but it didn't keep me asleep  I am beyond taper. Did you stop the Ambien for good? Have a good night

[[VI...]]

15 hours ago, [[J...] said:

Update. The 5mg Valium that I was prescribed I know does work, but I believe now for sure my Psychiatrist did not prescribe enough. The Ashton manual says I should be getting 10mg. Well, I am taking my 5mg at bedtime, as directed to.  I just took my 5mg a little bit ago , and within 20 minutes I felt 100% better. I need one at night and one at day. I have a extremely high metabolism. My body metabolizes everything very fast. I could eat a whole pack of Bubble gum and it would come out the next morning. Lol. Just kidding. But, me food does digest that fast. Will be speaking with psychiatrist tomorrow.  I want to be clear. I DONT WANT ANY MORE BENZOS FOR PURPOSE OF EUPHORIA.  These withdrawls have been intense since not prescribed correct amount of Valium. In fact that is the thing I suppose I did not understand at first when they say that Benzos and Z drugs are very addictive.  I am a recovered alcoholic/addict, that got clean and sober 25 years ago. My drugs of choice though were Free basing Cocaine and snorting crank, and drink 24 packs of beer daily by myself.  Ofcourse the crank definitely made it to where I could drink that much and not even get a buzz from the alcohol. I say this because I never took Ambien or Xanax for euphoria, never once even took a benzo in my days of using drugs. If there were no evil  withdrawals from these drugs I would not be concerned at all. Now I am blabbing. I still have 100% confidence that I will get over these evil medications and will never touch them again. You know what is interesting, is that the drugs that work the best for anxiety ( benzos) and insomnia ( z drugs) are the most addictive and harmful to our bodies. Well. Have a good night everyone. I will update tomorrow on what psychiatrist says. 

I think the manual also says you should have some 'loading doses'. If you're already past that by now, don't worry about it, but it takes awhile for valium to build up in the blood which is why I think when I looked at the table there were certain points in the transition phases where he patient recieves both the xanax and valium would be administered (into whatever equal dose it should be for whatever situation it is)

[[Pa...]]

@[Je...], Professor Ashton had her patients on a higher equivalency than most doctors support, they probably use something like this to determine it. https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

I’m sorry, I missed you mentioning your doctor had already prescribed you Valium, a lot of doctors won’t.  You say she didn’t suggest tapering in the Valium shown in these examples? https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

[[Je...]]

Thanks for your replies. No, she only said to me at first only 5 mg of Valium is all she felt comfortable with. But when I spoke with her on Sunday night she said if your withdrawal are last 6 hours and are bad than go ahead and take another 5. And  now she is going to talk with me Tuesday about possibly 5 mg at night and 12 hours later 2 mg. She did not do a loading dose or wean from the Xanax to Valium . So will see tomorrow. Also, I believe like you were saying originally pamster, I just wonder if alot of these symptoms are from the Ambien 12.5 I have been prescribed for 10 months.  The Xanax was only .5 for 5 weeks. And I am also a person who came off of opiates 70mg daily for 5 years , only 11 months ago. So I also believe my central nervous system and GABA, needs some time off of ALL these drugs that mess with the brain. In needs some serious resetting.  I want to thank you all for your help. Sure is useful. You are EXCELLENT examples of carrying the message to people needing help. 

[[Pa...]]

You’re welcome @[Je...], I hope you’ll let us know how your appointment goes.  Hopefully you can find the right dose of Valium and I’m relieved you’re not going to take Ambien during the day, I resorted to that and had huge holes in my memory.

 I hope you can complete your taper from the Valium sooner rather than later, I still believe that since your time on the Xanax was so short, you should be able to taper fairly rapidly, even though your time on the Ambien has been longer.  But you’re right, it feels so good to get clear of these drugs, I’m also recovering and I’m still grateful I was able to break free.  

[[Je...]]

Question?. Any way to get rid of the headaches? Those are the worst. Also, tell me if this sounds right. My psychiatrist has me taking Valium 5mg, Ambien 12.5 mg ( but I cut it in half and only take 6.5) and 300 mg Gabapentin at night. I asked if I should split them up at night, few hours apart, she said if you want to, but together is ok. Does this sound ok? Update!! Spoke with psychiatrist.  They don't want to go higher on my dose of 5mg Valium, actually instead of one 5mg at night, they want to "try" 2mg, once at night and once in day. Icaramba. Hope this works. If does not I will let them know right away. They just feel that my Xanax use was only 5 1/2 weeks, that they don't want me on Valium long at all. Let's hope this works. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by [Je...]

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Je...], I’m sure you’re going to be uncomfortable only taking 2 mgs twice a day but the only way out is through and it appears your doctor wants you off the drug sooner than later and I agree with her.  What is her plan for tapering off of the 4 mgs, how many tablets did you get and are there any refills?  I’d really like to see your Valium use short lived so you can go on to the business of tapering off the Ambien.

As for your headaches, are they typically a problem for you, are you prone? 

[[Je...]]

Not headaches normally. Just during past couple weeks. No refills on the Valium. These will last until I see her again.. 40 of them.. Since I was having withdrawal symptoms that were bad this past weekend,  my Dr. wanted me to take Valium every 12 hours. But only 2 mg. She said I might get some withdrawl symptoms but should not be to bad. Said my body might be metabolizing it faster, so every 12 hours instead of once at night. You know what though. The Ambien I take is 15 mg. I take 6 around 10:30 at night. I get up a few hours later and go to work and open up buildings etc clean up. I am than off for a few hours and take 4 mg Ambien and sleep for a couple hours. Than back to work. Get off from work around 1:30. When I get home take another 5 mg to sleep couple of hours. Terrible schedule. I have noticed in past 6 months before all this happend that the Ambien was not working as good, and at times had Flu symptoms, but not sick and a few headaches. Weird thing is that even now after only 5 1/2 weeks of the Xanax use and tapering off benzos the Ambien helps the withdrawal symptoms more than the Valium. Something is telling me I have more of a Ambien problem than the Benzo problem. So I am now also tapering the Ambien slowly. Thoughts? One other question. Should I take the 2 mg always at same time? Like 9 at night and 9 in morning? And maybe in 2 weeks taper down to 1 1/2 twice daily. Thanks

Edited October 26, 2023 by [Je...]

[[Pa...]]

@[Je...], your schedule is terrible, no wonder you’re having so much trouble!  

We advise only tapering one medication at a time because its too difficult to know what is causing what in case you need to make adjustments. 

I agree you have an Ambien problem but I really hate to see your body become anymore dependent on the Valium, in my opinion, it can mess you up more than the Ambien.  Granted, I hate Ambien with a passion and think its harming you but continuing to take the Valium on a daily basis is only going to add to your dependence on it.  I’d much rather see you taper off the Valium first and to not wait 2 weeks to do it.  This whole side trip you’ve taken with the Xanax and now the Valium is making me nervous.  Ambien tolerance and withdrawal isn’t pleasant but benzodiazepine tolerance, withdraw and recovery is a nightmare. 

[[Je...]]

Ok. I will focus on tapering the Valium. Actually I am already. Only had the 5mg for 8 days, now today going down to 4. Seemed fine today with a couple of minor withdrawal symptoms. I will keep u updated. Maybe down to 3 1/2 or 3 next week?