Equivalence

[[Id...]]

Ok, I’m in that state that I don’t trust myself with simple math or grammar (not even in my native language)
I can’t even navigate the site right, I’ve tried for days (sorry). Can’t write a not blurry not crazy and accurate story. Can we do a baby step? I have one single question for now.

 

How much Diazepam is equivalent to 1 mg of lormetazepam? Not lorazepam lormetazepam

 

I understand this is not a medical advice; I understand that equivance tables are not always the same or really accurate.

 

Thanks if you can, this mean so much 

 

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[Id...].  I have no experience with Lormetazepam (Noctamid); however, I have attached a link to Chapter 1, Table 1 of the Ashton Manual.  Dr. Ashton provides approximate benzodiazepine equivalencies here.  It appears somewhere between 1-2mg of Lormetazepam (Noctamid) equates to 10mg diazepam.

Hopefully others will chime in with experience or further input.  I just wanted to acknowledge your post and answer your first question to the best of my ability.  

https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#24

[[Id...]]

@[Fa...]

thank you so much for your acknowledgment, you know how much it means. I am deeply grateful. 
 

10 mg… I don’t trust myself anymore but it seems to be what I understood too. If it’s true I’m TOTALLY… ehm (another language means lack of synonyms too) ducked up!

I’m dipping my toes with 0.5 and am already braced in in upside down world and close to unable to do anything. Clonazepam does more damage than good in sustaining withdrawal between the daily dose before bed. If I spread it across the day I stop sleeping and I am in a place where this is dangerous for my safety (it began like a sleep aid and if I don’t sleep I am not able to sustain myself in general especially because I am alone) 

 

Yep I have tried twice the full switch before under specialist doctor before and… I ended up urgently hospitalized twice. First time I ended up with more prescriptions than before. Second they ct me without even having basic cpr knowledge. They reacted to my seizures threatening to hold me against my will because I was “acting funny” (and even worse but it’s useless to go on).

It’s my fourth year in this journey.

 

That’s all I think… I will wait here with you if someone has even just a suggestions… hoping to not see myself passing by on the tale’s river 

 

thanks again ❤️

[[Fa...]]

@[Id...], have you attempted a slow cross-taper to 10mg diazepam in the past?  Are you currently on any other medications?  What is your past history with medications and dosages?  When you have time, please fill in your medication history, taper details and any other pertinent information so others can provide the best feedback for your situation  Profile => Edit profile (top-right of profile banner) => Add succinct use/taper/withdrawal history to 'History' text box => click 'Save' (bottom-right).

 

I have no knowledge of the medication Lormetazepam unfortunately.  It appears the half-life is relatively short.  If you have become dependent, and are taking the medication once daily at night, I would assume you have been experiencing repeated interdose withdrawal.

[[Id...]]

 

I’m in full blown up syndrome. I just switched to “manual” breathing an hour ago. It’s normallysh to me. I am used to this 

in hospital they put me on 110 mg. So.. 110 x 10. No this is not an error. This was 2 years ago. I came a long journey from that, seizures and unconsciousness included. I am truly lucky (even if it doesn’t feels it I am) to be alive. 

no other medications.
no pshychiatric problems (sorry I can’t spell it right at the moment)

supposed fibromyalgia since chemo (12 years ago)

I’m taking more than 1 mg of lormetazepam (normal doctor prescription as sleep aid is 2 mg). Not much more than normal dose but as we all experienced during pandemic politics and medics don’t comunicate really well and I’ll legally be in trouble if I take more. 

I know this is awfully written and I apologize for that, fortunately you understand why. 
 

I’ll try to follow your directions during next window but it won’t be much more because I don’t have my files and everything else was prescribed over the phone (understandably so) during pandemic. 
 

I wrote upside down world. I literally feel hanged from the ceiling from toes with diazepam. I am not exaggerating, I have came a long way even in not freaking out. 
 

further information is I can balance this hell on earth if I sleep even just a bit every day. Believe me I have tried every combination possibile. 
 

I have never heard about slow cross taper

 

I didn’t want to “disappear” after your precious and gracious help but I wasn’t able to write better

 

thank you again. I’m sorry I brought this caos in

[[Fa...]]

An example of a slow ‘cross-taper’ (assuming you are on 2mg Lormetazepam) would be to drop .5mg Lormetazepam and add 5mg diazepam every week or two until you are fully crossed over to 20mg diazepam.  If you have attempted to directly swap to diazepam in the past, I understand why your were having such difficulty.  It takes time for the diazepam to build up in your system and for the Lormetazepam to be eliminated.

I would assume you would need to dose your Lormetazepam at least 2-3 times per day to avoid interdose withdrawal symptoms.  I believe your main objective at the moment should be to try and ‘stabilize’ to a degree on Lormetazepam.  Maybe .5mg morning, .5mg afternoon, and 1mg evening?

I hope you have a doctor who understands what you are going through and can help you.  I also hope others will chime in with opinions/options for you to consider as well. 

[[Id...]]

Thanks for your input, I already told how important it is I don’t want to be too annoying. But it’s so important.
A slow cross taper: I didn’t know it existed but is what I was trying to do without knowledge, just logic and experience gained in this journey. I was lost on the conversion you helped me with. And I’m still in shock because I felt so close after those monster doses. 

yes two full switches from the doctor that proclaims internationally he found the “answer”. He probably does because he is the one that also hung up on me when I explained where I ended up. Rest I don’t want to think how I survived. At least I have my general doctor, she doesn’t even like medicine or try to comprehend but at least she trusts me, or it’s easier this way, I’m on what should be such a low dose and she got scared for the mess she did at the beginning (it’s the mess that every general doctor does here). 
Anyway I’ll try to stay put because as I wrote I’m in a bad situation: who can wants to lock me up because is evil (I know withdrawal can give you paranoia; as I know the situation was exactly like this even before I touched a benzo. She always tried it even without proves. And her husband is violent. Yes I talked with the police but there are not proofs, she “tricked” them already, and she threatens me with legal stalking). Tomorrow I’ll talk with the friend that should have legal power on me if I taper more. He doesn’t understand me because he grew up close and in a good situation and never saw what was going on and I wanted it remain like that. With my remaining speech ability is a real risk (I talk like if a was “crazy” about things he thinks are crazy. It couldn’t get any better than this). But I know his heart is in a good place. I hope. Frankly this is really horrible. I just wish I was in a safe place to ct everything again (I gave up on the little dose I am on now because I can’t “afford” to not be vigilant). Or just to live. That would be nice. 
I’ll take some days to stay sane with this little switch that you confirmed is right. This is so important and I’ll do my best to milk every sleep I can from it. 
I respectfully bothered a user whose successful story convinced me to ask for help because his situation had a couple of things that resonated with mine, and his answer that I wasn’t expecting, is a little but big psychological help to sleep a bit. 
I know this is horrible put and I will feel shame to submit it but it’s even the truth and really the best I can do right now. 

Thanks again ❤️ and really so much 

[[Id...]]

Hi, I’m trying. It’s difficult and confusing. Or simply I’M confused. On the bright side diazepam seems to not shock me like in the beginning. Other bright side is I can have liquid form (mg/ml are different for every product. It’s gonna to be o lot more math than it should be at the moment)

I have a silly important question. If I am able to reach it (great if), would it be counterproductive to have one single dose of diazepam during the day, given its long action? Night is my personal nightmare for many reasons; insomnia is the lifelong horror that started this situation. I won’t be able to sleep but at least I should be more comfortable. 
 

I’m trying to learn but I can’t see user dosages looking at the profile. It’s because I’m on mobile; or I didn’t look enough people to find someone who shared; or my actual brain or just a too young user?

thanks again

[[Fa...]]

Hi again, @[Id...].  Insomnia is my most persistent, and troubling, symptom as well.  Everyone is different, but I would assume most people are able to dose once a day using diazepam.

I take my single dose of diazepam in the evening.  I am tapering using a combination of tablets and liquid.  It is outlined in the ‘history’ section of my profile.

[[Id...]]

Thanks, even for your precious and graceful proximity. 
No way to find a history part on mobile, I’ll try from laptop. 
thanks again 

[[je...]]

31 minutes ago, [[I...] said:

Thanks, even for your precious and graceful proximity. 
No way to find a history part on mobile, I’ll try from laptop. 
thanks again 

Yes, you can.  Click on the Avatar, scroll down to 'Activity'. Then click on the downward arrow to the right of it. Then it will list all the other tabs, including history.

 

 

[[Id...]]

☺️☺️☺️ yes I can! 
So many slow brain tries and I never saw the little pointing thing for a menu. 
Thanks so much 

[[je...]]

You're welcome. It can be very tricky to figure these things out. 

[[Id...]]

Sorry to bother again: as I wrote I am trying to stabilize and I chose to write while I can before too much wd or an error with doses throws me in a state I can’t ask for help anymore. I think I got this but if I’m right I can’t process it. 

On 29/09/2023 at 15:17, [[F...] said:

It appears somewhere between 1-2mg of Lormetazepam (Noctamid) equates to 10mg diazepam.

If I was taking 2 doses of sleeping aid, let’s hypnotize 5 mg to be round…

would that mean 50-100 mg of diazepam? (According to the tapering table: I know this is not medical advice). 
 

possible 100 mg of diazepam for a pill more than normal? If I’m not going crazy that would mean end of the taper: never! Right?!

 

 I so hope I have just wrote something really stupid. 

[[Fa...]]

@[Id...], you will not find a medical provider willing to prescribe you 100mg of diazepam per day.  You will be fortunate to find someone willing to prescribe you 40mg of diazepam per day.  Most people can taper more quickly at higher doses and then have to slow down their taper around 10-15mg diazepam.  

[[Id...]]

Thank you @[Fa...] your proximity means more than words can express for how much cliché this sound it’s also the truth. 
I would take 100 only to escape death, it was never my intention to take this dose: the contrary, just to truly understand the meaning of this, because between a lot of faith, good attitude and trust in specialists I have never thought to stop and doing math myself or go into many details. 
I just thought it would have been easier to “stabilize” and find a true direction from that point. 
 

15 hours ago, [[I...] said:

On the bright side diazepam seems to not shock me like in the beginning

It seems I talked too soon. I saw there’s another user with M.E. and bad reaction to this kind of drugs that is struggling and can express herself or himself better than I do. It’s just so erratic at the moment and I find it so difficult to function the bare minimum to take care of myself and find the lowest dose possible. I’ll came back hopefully when I find it. 
I am taking notes of my trying 

 

thanks again ❤️

1 hour ago, [[F...] said:

slow down their taper around 10-15mg diazepam

I’ll try to cross taper at that point than surrender to wd or every 0.1 less if I can endure it.

thanks truly ❤️

Edited October 5, 2023 by [Id...]

[[Pa...]]

Hi again @[Id...], can you ask your question again, the one you asked on my success story? 

[[Id...]]

I’m truly mortified I messed up posting in your story (congratulations again, really heart felt), if it wasn’t for your kindness I wouldn’t write again. 
I guess my mind is confused about grasping details of what you wrote in a language that sounds so unfamiliar at the moment. 
I guess my question was: you cted from a long lasting benzo and, while still in wd you took a short term one. Then you cted that too and you felt “healed”?

 I ask because is similar to what is happening to me (except I didn’t tempt a second ct; I arrived here still in wd from first ct 9 months ago, reinstated a small short term dose because seizures and all I wasn’t able to take care of myself alone, and I was beginning to experiencing severe wd spiking between doses).

Now everything is better because I spread that dose during the day in attempt to slowly switch without adding anything, but that is a story for another day. I’m taking notes to better understand what is going on and what to ask if needed. 
 

thanks again :)