Clonazepam taper help thanks !

[[Ma...]]

Hi all, im Marc, I need your help, I hope this is the right section to write in, if I'm wrong I apologize, I'm new here.

I took clonazepam drops for 12 months at 1mg per day, 10 drops per day divided into 2 daily doses.

I started taping by removing 1/4 of a drop every 7 days (I divide each drop with a syringe), is this scaling good in your opinion?
Too slow, too fast?
Thank you

 

[[Co...]]

Hello @[Ma...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

Let me make sure I properly understand. You take (or were taking) a total of 10 drops per day (1mg clonazepam). And you remove a quarter of a drop for a dose of 9.75 drops per day - yes? And you make similar reductions every 7 days - yes?

If so, that's a slow taper rate. It is a cut of 0.025mg/week. More typically, members here will reduce by a quarter of 0.5mg pill, that's a cut of 0.125mg (five times the size of your cuts). However, many struggle with cuts of 0.125mg clonazepam from a dose of 1mg (though, 0.125mg cuts of clonazepam (or more) from larger doses are generally better tolerated). So you being able to make smaller cuts is probably an advantage. Members who are making larger cuts than you more typically make new cuts every two weeks. Some can manage cuts sooner, and many require longer between cuts.

At your taper rate, it will take you forty weeks to complete your withdrawal from a starting dose of 1mg. I would say that's on the long side - you might find you can reasonably tolerate more frequent cuts. But mileage does vary. I would say, unless your have personal experience to the contrary, you should be optimistic that you can taper at faster rate than 0.025mg/week. But only you can determine what is reasonable for you.

[[Ma...]]

17 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Hello @[Ma...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

Let me make sure I properly understand. You take (or were taking) a total of 10 drops per day (1mg clonazepam). And you remove a quarter of a drop for a dose of 9.75 drops per day - yes? And you make similar reductions every 7 days - yes?

If so, that's a slow taper rate. It is a cut of 0.025mg/week. More typically, members here will reduce by a quarter of 0.5mg pill, that's a cut of 0.125mg (five times the size of your cuts). However, many struggle with cuts of 0.125mg clonazepam from a dose of 1mg (though, 0.125mg cuts of clonazepam (or more) from larger doses are generally better tolerated). So you being able to make smaller cuts is probably an advantage. Members who are making larger cuts than you more typically make new cuts every two weeks. Some can manage cuts sooner, and many require longer between cuts.

At your taper rate, it will take you forty weeks to complete your withdrawal from a starting dose of 1mg. I would say that's on the long side - you might find you can reasonably tolerate more frequent cuts. But mileage does vary. I would say, unless your have personal experience to the contrary, you should be optimistic that you can taper at faster rate than 0.025mg/week. But only you can determine what is reasonable for you.

Hi Colin,Thanks for your help.

I'm starting the scaling now and yeas I was actually thinking of removing 1 quarter of a drop per week, I didn't know if this was too slow or fast scaling but from what you're telling me it seems to be even too slow.

Honestly, I don't mind this because whether it's too fast or too slow, maybe it's better to be too slow, right?

But now you're making me wonder, can scaling too slowly cause problems?

Among other things, you calculated well when you say 40 weeks but in reality my plan would be even longer, I didn't specify it in my initial post but I was thinking of slowing down the speed in the final part, so once I got to 3 or 4 drops remaining, I was thinking of removing a quarter of a drop every 10/12 days and no longer every 7 days, so overall the total weeks of my scaling would be more than 40.
Let's say that since I took the drug for 12 months I thought of setting a proportional scaling, therefore lasting approximately 12 months.
Are you saying it's too long?
I am exaggerating?

 

[[Co...]]

Hi @[Ma...]

Well, there are some downsides to extending a taper for much linger than required. Side effects can mount up over time - yes, even if reducing your dose. As you become more tolerant of the medication over time, you might experience withdrawal-like effects even if you are on a stable dose. And this can occur during a taper too. The real risk from these things is that it is practically impossible to stabilise. So, there are potential downsides to sticking on the medication for longer than necessary. Are these things likely - no, not really. But is happens. But on the other hand, of course you do not wish to risk crippling withdrawal effects due to tapering too quickly. So, I would just suggest that you taper at a rate which is reasonably manageable for you in your circumstances. Feel your way through it, and make new cuts as you feel you can reasonably manage them. If you feel withdrawal effects mounting up, then stabilise your dose until they pass.

Unless you have personal experience to contrary, do not assume the worst case scenario. The vast majority of our members have already experienced problems, whereas those who experience few, tend not to join this community. So the membership of BB and similar places are not a representative sample. That's not to downplay the problems associated with benzodiazepines, but some people experience few problems quitting, and sometimes even at a rapid taper rate.

[[Ma...]]

Ok Colin, thank you, u are very good guy.

let me tell you a little more at this point.
I decided to start the reduction because I feel that after 12 months I can do without it and I have also developed a bit of tolerance, I realize that the drug has less effect and rather than helping me it is starting to bother me, this would be the famous crossroads where a person has to decide whether to continue using it by increasing the dosage or get rid of the drug, I decided to get rid of it and started to reduce it.
Obviously my first reasoning was to reduce it slowly because today with 1mg I already have tolerance, by reducing it during the reduction I wouldn't want to experience too much withdrawal.
You are certainly more expert than me so I take into account what you tell me.
If you think 12 months is too much I can easily try to speed it up by removing half a drop a week and reducing the total time to 6 months.
Honestly, I hadn't taken into consideration the problems with slow climbing because you always hear a lot of people say that they climbed too fast, I was trying to stay away from that type of mistake.
What do you think?

 

[[Pa...]]

What I’ve seen here is that most members are able to make larger reductions at the beginning of their tapers, with most needing to slow down at the end.  If I were you, I’d take advantage of that scenario if you tolerate it.  As @[Co...] mentioned, mileage varies because we’re all so different.  

What seems to work the best for members is to use your symptoms to guide your taper rate.  Good record keeping of your reductions plus your symptom severity rated with numbers can help you determine your next reduction timing and amount. A general plan is helpful but willingness to make adjustments is key.  

[[Ma...]]

37 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

What I’ve seen here is that most members are able to make larger reductions at the beginning of their tapers, with most needing to slow down at the end.  If I were you, I’d take advantage of that scenario if you tolerate it.  As @[Co...] mentioned, mileage varies because we’re all so different.  

What seems to work the best for members is to use your symptoms to guide your taper rate.  Good record keeping of your reductions plus your symptom severity rated with numbers can help you determine your next reduction timing and amount. A general plan is helpful but willingness to make adjustments is key.  

Hi Pamster, thank you.

when you talk about slowing down on the end, in my case, it would be around 2/3 drops (0.2/0.3mg) or even lower?

[[Pa...]]

I don’t think we can plan that far ahead @[Ma...], I know it’s frustrating to not be able to make concrete plans because we need to feel like we have some control but the truth is, there are too many variables to do this.  

[[Ma...]]

37 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

I don’t think we can plan that far ahead @[Ma...], I know it’s frustrating to not be able to make concrete plans because we need to feel like we have some control but the truth is, there are too many variables to do this.  

You're right, I'll see as I go.
Do you know cases of people who managed to tape without feeling anything or should I expect some symptoms of discomfort and consider it "normal" during taping?

[[Ma...]]

4 hours ago, [[C...] said:

 More typically, members here will reduce by a quarter of 0.5mg pill, that's a cut of 0.125mg (five times the size of your cuts).

Sorry Colin, only now have I actually understood the numbers, so you're telling me that on average members remove 1 drop (0.1mg) of Clonazepam per week, so to scale 10 drops (1mg) it takes them 10 weeks, just over 2 months to clean up?!
wow
Only now do I realize, but therefore I had set up an insanely long climb.😳

Sorry but I have a doubt, beyond the dose, is the duration for which the drug was taken never considered?
Let me explain better, if I had taken 1mg of clonazepam per day for 2 months and not for 12 months, could the reduction have been even faster than 1 drop per week?

Thank you

 

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

You're right, I'll see as I go.
Do you know cases of people who managed to tape without feeling anything or should I expect some symptoms of discomfort and consider it "normal" during taping?

Some can discontinue these medications with no issues, but we don’t see them here, I hope you’ll be one of the lucky ones.

Have you ever taken and discontinued them before, this can have some bearing on your situation. 

[[Ma...]]

1 minute ago, [[P...] said:

Some can discontinue these medications with no issues, but we don’t see them here, I hope you’ll be one of the lucky ones.

Have you ever taken and discontinued them before, this can have some bearing on your situation. 

This is my first time taking a benzo so I don't know what it will be like, hopefully I can tolerate the discomfort while I get off the drug

[[Co...]]

55 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Sorry Colin, only now have I actually understood the numbers, so you're telling me that on average members remove 1 drop (0.1mg) of Clonazepam per week, so to scale 10 drops (1mg) it takes them 10 weeks, just over 2 months to clean up?!
wow
Only now do I realize, but therefore I had set up an insanely long climb.😳

Sorry but I have a doubt, beyond the dose, is the duration for which the drug was taken never considered?
Let me explain better, if I had taken 1mg of clonazepam per day for 2 months and not for 12 months, could the reduction have been even faster than 1 drop per week?

Thank you

I would say, more typically, members will cut a quarter (or a half) of a 0.5mg pill (0.125mg - 0.25mg) of clonazepam*. And they will make such cuts about every two weeks. However, this is a large generalisation - there is much variability.

* It is difficult to quarter these pills, and it can be unreliable. So some will instead halve them.

If we assume a member is managing to quarter their 0.5mg pill (0.125mg), that is five times the cut you make (0.025mg). But they, typically do not make those cuts every week. If we assume they make a cut every two weeks (a generalisation), we can compare their taper with yours:

You: 0.025mg per week (0.05mg per 2 weeks).

Them: 0.125mg per 2 weeks.

If we make those assumptions, your taper rate is 2.5 times slower than their taper rate.

But, again, there is huge variability. Some will make larger cuts (0.25mg - half of a 0.5mg pill), but they might allow more time between the cuts (or not).

I cannot be exact, because withdrawal is a very individual thing. A taper rate which is highly tolerable for one person might be completely intolerable for another. As @[Pa...] suggested, our members typically adjust their taper rate according to how they react.

[[Ma...]]

11 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

I would say, more typically, members will cut a quarter (or a half) of a 0.5mg pill (0.125mg - 0.25mg) of clonazepam*. And they will make such cuts about every two weeks. However, this is a large generalisation - there is much variability.

* It is difficult to quarter these pills, and it can be unreliable. So some will instead halve them.

It we assume a member is managing to quarter their 0.5mg pill (0.125mg), that is five times the cut you make (0.025mg). But they, typically do not make those cuts every week. If we assume they make a cut every two weeks (a generalisation), we can compare their taper with yours:

You: 0.025mg per week (0.05mg per 2 weeks).

Them: 0.125mg per 2 weeks.

If we make those assumptions, your taper rate is 2.5 times faster than their taper rate.

But, again, there is huge variability. Some will make larger cuts (0.25mg - half of a 0.5mg pill), but they might allow more time between the cuts (or not).

I cannot be exact, because withdrawal is a very individual thing. A taper rate which is highly tolerable for one person might be completely intolerable for another. As @[Pa...] suggested, our members typically adjust their taper rate according to how they react.

u were very clear, thank you.
When you talked about my taper rate you meant mine is 2.5 times slower, not faster, right?

I imagine that even deciding to make smaller and more frequent cuts compared to larger but prolonged cuts over a longer period is a subjective choice, isn't there one better choice than the other?

Edited September 23, 2023 by [Ma...]

[[Co...]]

4 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

u were very clear, thank you.
When you talked about my taper rate you meant mine is 2.5 times slower, not faster, right?

Oops. Yes, I did mean slower. I've edited my post to reflect this. Thanks. 

[[Ma...]]

thank you both, you were very kind, sorry for the many questions but I'm not an expert

[[Co...]]

46 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

thank you both, you were very kind, sorry for the many questions but I'm not an expert

You are very welcome, @[Ma...]

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

I imagine that even deciding to make smaller and more frequent cuts compared to larger but prolonged cuts over a longer period is a subjective choice, isn't there one better choice than the other?

I didn’t taper but from what I’ve observed, one isn’t always a better choice, members usually find what works for them through experimentation.  This is unfortunate because we’re the subjects in this experiment. 

[[Ma...]]

25 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

I didn’t taper but from what I’ve observed, one isn’t always a better choice, members usually find what works for them through experimentation.  This is unfortunate because we’re the subjects in this experiment. 

I will try not to stick to a pre-set schedule but I will adapt everything based on the progress, it will not be easy because it is obvious that I would like to remove the drug as quickly as possible but at the same time I have to keep the imbalances on the nervous system due to the reduction at bay.
But the most important thing is that I hope to be able to get rid of it without the drug leaving indelible marks on me for the rest of my life, I hope that once it's clean I'll go back to exactly how I was before I started it.

[[Pa...]]

1 minute ago, [[M...] said:

But the most important thing is that I hope to be able to get rid of it without the drug leaving indelible marks on me for the rest of my life, I hope that once it's clean I'll go back to exactly how I was before I started it.

This was the worst experience of my life, I’ve never known such pain and fear but when I recovered, it was all gone.  No PTSD and no setbacks, just gratitude and a new appreciation for life. 

[[Ma...]]

12 minutes ago, [[P...] said:

This was the worst experience of my life, I’ve never known such pain and fear but when I recovered, it was all gone.  No PTSD and no setbacks, just gratitude and a new appreciation for life. 

nice to hear that you're free again, but then you suddenly stopped taking the drug without reducing it?
what are PTSD?

[[Pa...]]

Yes, I quit cold turkey because I didn't know it needed to be tapered.  PTSD stands for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, its a descriptor we use around here sometimes, because people are afraid they'll feel these awful feelings for the rest of their lives.  But from what I've seen in the Success Stories forum is most have my experience, once recovered, we leave the fear and pain behind. 

[[Ma...]]

@[Pa...] wow, so you were quick to remove the problem, sometimes I also thought about removing it suddenly but I didn't have the courage, in fact from the way I posted the reduction I'd say that I really don't have the courage🙃

[[Ma...]]

@[Co...] @[Pa...]

Sorry to bother you again but I have a curiosity.
If the scaling takes place in the correct way, therefore trying to adapt the scale to any withdrawal symptoms, there should be a slow descent that takes us to the final stages of the scaling (say when it reaches around 0.3 or 0.2 mg per day) ensuring that our body has adapted to the reduction, furthermore as the reduction proceeds we have less drug in the blood and this on the one hand can cause a bit of withdrawal but the positive thing is that we take less drug and our body is a little more " clean", why then is it often recommended in the final stages to lengthen the scaling time?

I have heard several doctors recommend increasing the tapering times as the dose decreases, but why?

 

[[Co...]]

I suggest that you adjust the time between cuts according to how you feel and react. But being less than feeling fully comfortable is to be expected. So I also suggest that you do not draw out the taper for longer than necessary.