Taper help .25mg Klonopin for 2.5 months

[[Mw...]]

Please help! Been on Klonopin for 2.5 months at .25mg. Doctor said take situationally and it helped me out of extreme anxiety episode early July… I then took it situationally about every 2-3 days as over the summer i started having a new extremely intense anxiety like skin and muscles tearing off my bones anxiety in the body, terrible feeling causing all kinds of problems in daily life… I would take .25mg when id feel that sensation which would happen about every 2-3 days… Im now realizing that this feeling may likely have been withdrawal starts as id get the new anxiety, take .25mg then for a couple days id be almost fine, then 2.5/3days same feeling comes in again… I consulted many doctors and psychiatrist and they all assured me i was on such a low dose it wasnt withdrawals… Im 37 and the pattern shows it definitely has something to do with klonopin and its not my normal anxiety feeling… A new psychiatrist suggest i should take it everyday and start to taper 25% every 2/3 weeks… I cant find much on short term use and tapers at .25mg… Whats the best taper being 2.5months in at .25mg?? Please help! Thanks 

[[Co...]]

Hello @[Mw...] Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

It is correct that you are on a low dose - right at the very low end of what might be prescribed. You've been taking it for a relatively short period of time - again, at the low end of where dependency might become an issue. But you also have been taking it intermittently - only once every few days. For all these reasons, it is highly unlikely that you have developed any dependency.

However, if you were to start taking it more frequently, then some level of dependency is likely to develop over time. How long this will take is more of an open question, but it is likely to occur  sooner or later.

Usually, from a low dose, and with intermittent use, a doctor will recommend just quitting - no taper. And since you are already on what is the smallest practical dose (without going into special preparations), there is no direct, simple path to cut 25% of dose from a dose of 0.25mg. (Though, when a taper is required, it can be useful and worth the effort to obtain a special preparation which allows for smaller cuts to dose).

Is it possible that what you are experiencing are panic attacks and not withdrawal effects?

Please conform your dose: is it 0.25mg, or could it be 2.5mg? 2.5mg would quite a large dose.

[[...]]

The K absolutely caused the skin thing.

Switching to daily is ok but. At such a low dose you could probably just quit. It'll  suck but its worth it.

If you have too. Then do the taper.

Do the math first!  Figure out your each day amount over the past few weeks. Do not go up in daily amount! At All. 

Then taper.

Your lucky in that your length of time is low.

You'll still feel crappy but if you don't cut it out now, you'll feel sick for a long time.

Keep learning coping methods. Learn hard, learn today.

You'll do fine. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by [...]

[[Mw...]]

2 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Hello @[Mw...] Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

It is correct that you are on a low dose - right at the very low end of what might be prescribed. You've been taking it for a relatively short period of time - again, at the low end of where dependency might become an issue. But you also have been taking it intermittently - only once every few days. For all these reasons, it is highly unlikely that you have developed any dependency.

However, if you were to start taking it more frequently, then some level of dependency is likely to develop over time. How long this will take is more of an open question, but it is likely to occur  sooner or later.

Usually, from a low dose, and with intermittent use, a doctor will recommend just quitting - no taper. And since you are already on what is the smallest practical dose (without going into special preparations), there is no direct, simple path to cut 25% of dose from a dose of 0.25mg. (Though, when a taper is required, it can be useful and worth the effort to obtain a special preparation which allows for smaller cuts to dose).

Is it possible that what you are experiencing are panic attacks and not withdrawal effects?

Please conform your dose: is it 0.25mg, or could it be 2.5mg? 2.5mg would quite a large dose.

Id be really surprised if my normal anxiety feelings morphed into a whole new sensation… Ive never experienced this feeling of skin crawl anxiety and it directly correlates to when id take the .25mg (.25mg 1/2 of .5 tablet)… I take the pill feel fine for almost 2 days then skin crawl anxiety comes back hard… Its been 2.5 months since the life episode that triggered anxiety and its adverted and i have no cognitive reason or distress in life for the anxiety to exist… Also have had terrible insomnia since the episode and since taking klonopin insomnia has only persisted sleeping 2-3hrs on night and none the next on average… Also have cortisol rushes anytime i may dose off for a nap… All symptoms ive found in here related to Benzos… Having side effects as well, tingling, burning senations in arms and legs at night, headaches, nausea… As short a time as its been it definitely seems like Benzo problems from the knowledge I’ve gathered here… Im pretty sensitive to these meds as well, as .25mg did stop panic level anxiety initially very quickly… 

[[...]]

The skin thing is an additional symptom. If you don't get off your gonna find out about a lot more sucky symptoms.

Stay away from benzos and booze. They're deadly.

 

[[Th...]]

Solidarity from someone else also getting off 0.25 mg. I’ve been on it daily for a few months due to post-Covid panic attacks; I found 0.25 controlled them so stayed at that starter dosage, but after three months I decided it’s time to get off them (I’ve read that the anti-anxiolytic effect only lasts about four months at most).

I cut my dose by 25% on a Monday and on the following Thursday I started feeling like absolute hell: tremors, sweating, panic, bad GI pain. I wondered if I’d caught Covid again and this was some weird new incarnation, though a test was negative. The next day was the same (and another negative test). It didn’t even occur to me until the night of the third day that it could be withdrawal, because I’d thought that such a low dose wouldn’t cause withdrawal symptoms. But then I went and looked up the most common withdrawal symptoms, and I was having four out of five of them (no insomnia yet, thankfully). 

I’m now on Day 8 of the first 25% reduction and each day has been slightly worse in terms of increasing agitation, headaches, and muscle pain kicking in gradually. But I’ve read that symptoms should peak around two weeks in, and then I can get started on another 25% dose reduction. I’m really hoping that because the dose was so low to begin with, at some point I’ll stop feeling withdrawal even though I’m still slowly tapering down. Like the last 25% I won’t even feel, maybe. (I’m being hopeful.)

Anyway, just wanted to offer some validation that yeah, even low-dose can be a problem for withdrawing. It makes sense: if that level of the drug was sufficient to soothe our brain from panic, it’s also sufficient to cause the brain distress when the med stops.

We’ll get through this. It’s unpleasant but we’re both going to come out the other side and be okay. <3 One thing I’m planning on doing is asking a local compounding pharmacy if they can custom-make me pills that have a lower dosage, because trying to cut 0.5mg pills into eighths is very difficult. Maybe that could be helpful for you too, to slowly reduce the dosage you’re taking?

I agree with others though that if you switch to daily dosing, considering clonazepam’s long half-life, you’ll essentially be tripling your current dosage and having to wean yourself off three times as much as you’re currently taking. You’d do better to cut your current every-three-days dose into three portions (this may require liquid titration) and take one each day, because then you’re not increasing your overall dose but you won’t have the same swooping effect from constantly rising and falling levels. 

 

[[je...]]

Hi @[Th...]

Welcome to BenzoBuddies!

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am very sorry to hear you are struggling with withdrawal symptoms too. If you have become dependent and your symptoms are getting worse or difficult to manage, then 25% cuts might be too big. Please feel free to start your own your thread if you'd like support and input for your taper. We are glad you're here!

[[...]]

Your symptoms sound like withdrawal.

[[Th...]]

Thanks for the welcome! I’ll be okay; it’s quite physically and psychologically unpleasant but I have preexisting chronic physical and mental illness, so I’m already used to stoically being miserable. And each day has only been slightly worse than the day before. As long as that pattern doesn’t suddenly and negatively change, I can last this out. If the peak is particularly bad though, I may give myself an additional 5-7 days at that same dosage to let myself stabilize more before trying to decrease further. 

I’m definitely going to be spending time on the forums to learn more about liquid titration methods though; trying to do dry microdoses is very difficult!

[[je...]]

Dealing with other conditions on top of withdrawal is tough. But you sound very resilient. It will serve you well. Let us know if we can help you with anything.

[[Mw...]]

Thanks for the responses… Does anyone else out there have any experience with .25mg? Im having the akathisia symptoms even trying to stabilize on the med and its making it so i cant work and cant be alone and im losing the support of friends now that symptoms are persisting worse in the last 2 weeks… Im running out of options and current psychiatrist wants me to go down 25-50% as he doesnt think im in withdrawals and its more of a reaction…They are .5mg pills so even cutting to consistent dose is tough and i dont think the pharmacy has any other size 

[[Th...]]

I’ve switched to a liquid formulation from a compounding pharmacy; it’s a lot easier than trying to cut tiny pills when we’re on a low dose to begin with. If there’s a compounding pharmacy near you, it’s worth calling them to ask about it. The compounding fee for mine is $10 (which will be a monthly expense until I’m done, as the liquid only lasts for 35 days). 

I still think that trying to stay on 0.25 every three days is just going to make things worse because your blood drug levels will constantly be rising and falling. If you can manage a more accurate method (like a liquid) then doing 0.08 every day rather than 0.25 every three days will let your body normalize at that level (by 10 days after the change, assuming a 40-hour half-life for clonazepam, your body will be at 98% for that drug level). Then you just decrease the liquid every two weeks by 0.01-0.02 daily. (0.02 from 0.08 would be a 25% relative decrease, while 0.01 would be a 12.5% relative decrease.) 

My sense is that it doesn’t really matter if what you’re experiencing is dependence-based withdrawal or an emotional “reaction” (meaning your fear over decreasing the BZDs is causing psychosomatic symptoms); either way, the treatment can be the same. Worst-case scenario, you’re unusually sensitive to BZDs (as I am), have developed tolerance, and a slow, steady taper will be easiest for your body. Best-case scenario, your symptoms are created from subconscious panic based around decreasing your BZD, in which case a slow, steady taper will create the least anxiety, thereby causing fewer and/or more manageable symptoms, thereby being easiest for your body. You don’t need to know the cause for sure in order to treat the symptoms. 

It also sounds to me like you don’t have much support as you’re going through this, and may not have adequate tools for coping with panic attacks. Do you have access to a therapist who can help with learning coping mechanisms? Are there mental-health phone lines you can call rather than putting more on friends who are already withdrawing their support? Do you know how to do square breathing for managing anxiety and panic? Are you getting any exercise? Do you get enough sunlight? Can you work calming sessions into your day (there are many ways and apps to help with these ten-minute breaks, such as Calm, Pranayama, etc)?

The non-pharmaceutical tools we use to cope with the stresses of reducing our BZDs will play a significant part in how manageable the experience is and how much we can keep ourselves from ruminating on what we’re going through and fear of the rest of the process (hyperfocusing on our symptoms often makes them even worse because of stress hormones). So I strongly recommend that part of this process should involve figuring out what tools you have, what you can add to your toolkit, and sources of support beyond your friends.

[[Th...]]

Specifically with regards to akathisia: I found that during my first 25% drop I dealt with this from days 6-11. I was doing literally hours of yardwork and/or cleaning a day in order to deal with the restlessness and agitation. Do you have an outlet (physical work, exercise, walking or jogging outdoors, etc) that you can use for coping with the tension and agitation of akathisia?

Also could you go into more detail about why you can’t be alone? Is it because you’re afraid you might do something dangerous if left alone, or is it that the symptoms intensify when alone? 

[[Po...]]

I have been on Clonazapam (Klonipon)for 11 year every night .25mg and when I tried to tapper my doctor told me to cut it in half and I did and my legs felt so weak the next day I was so scared I went back to .25mg that was about 5 years ago and scared to try again. So yes even on .25mg you can get withdrawl symptoms. And the pill is so small it is hard to make smaller cuts. I feel I am getting muscle waste in my buttock area because It hurts my spine to sit and burns on my buttock. Sorry don’t know any other way to explain it’s embarrassing to explain all this. This has been going on for about five years too. I have not much of a bum anymore. This is all scaring me too. Also I was taking Ativan the smallest dose for about 8 years only when needed. And stopped in 2015. and wondering could it all be from stopping Ativan. I didn’t tapper but was only taking it when needed but in the beginning I took it more frequently once every second day. I so confused on all this I don’t know what’s causing what. I’m also on Effexor xr .75mg. and this has been for about 7 to 8 years. My life has been one bad thing after another since 2012. Diagnosis of diabetes type 2 in 2012 doctor put me on Pristq 50 mg and Ativan lowest dose, felt terrible on Pristq like it was to strong, and insomnia, in and out of hospital because of distress from diagnosis but I think now it was the Pristq to.. they in psych added a sleeping pill called Zoplicone smallest dose, was on this with all the other meds for a few years everynight, then someone told me it’s addicting back to the doctors he weaned me off with the Ativan told me to take four Ativan and go off the Zoplicone do this for I think it was a week then go back to original dose of Ativan so right there I was probably going through withdrawl of both meds with stopping the Zoplicone and changing doses in the Ativan up and down. This was back in 2013 I think. WhatI know now compared to knowing nothing back then about withdrawl and tappering it makes me so angry that doctors really don’t know about what these drugs can do to a person. So I got offf the Zoplicone and still to this day have problems big time with sleep. But I do know there is a ton of stress with living with diabetes and I’m doing this by diet and walking because there is side effects from diabetes medication to, that’s why I don’t want medication for it. In a lot of people that have type 2 diabetes they take Metformin and I talked to quite a few people who could not tolerate this Medication always running to the bathroom with diarrhea and they have upset stomachs. So I decided to do this by diet and excercise.

Then in 2015 my mom was diagnosed with cancer, my mom and brothers didn’t tell me right away because I was going through stress coping with my diabetes, then my brother called me to tell me mom was in the hospital, I was confusedI had just talked to her a few weeks before then we went away on holidays, she seemed fine, back to the phone call, I said what is going on and he could tell I was not good I was in shock he said are you okay I said no you just said moms in the hospital I guess not I’m not okay, he wouldn’t tell me what was going on, I said I’m going to the hospital, we hung up and tol my husband moms in the hospital were going up there. She was hooked up to oxygen I said mom what’s wrong do you have a virus, she said no and pointed to her side, and said cancer, I was in shock my heart was pounding, I said why didn’t you tell me she said you had enough going on, I felt so bad. Then she was whisked off to X-rays, I almost collapsed a nurse brought me a wheelchair, my mind went blank. Long story short my mom passed away, a month and a half later on November 11th 2015, my sweet loving mom. It crushed me to the ground. Till this day the pain is still there, and will never go away. 
Then in 2018 my brother in-law died by suicide, devastating. And still I was grieving my moms passing, this was a huge shock, and trauma.

2021 Ray my moms husband died of sepsis and he had dementia, horrible death. 
2022 my other brother in-law died of cancer very hard to watch especially after watching my mom die of cancer.

same year a family friend died and my uncle both died of cancer.

So it’s been hell, and lots of grief and trying to get through all this is hell. And trying to stay away from comfort eating is pure hell when you have diabetes. No joke.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by [Po...]

[[Th...]]

I am so sorry for your losses, Posca. Cancer is such an absolute beast, and dealing with the traumatic deaths caused by cancer is hard enough without everything else you have on your plate. (Not that other deaths aren’t also traumatic; it’s just that lingering, painful deaths like those caused by cancer or a number of other ailments are traumatic in a specific way.) 

I also certainly empathize with your anger at your care providers for not knowing more; it’s such a common problem that doctors aren’t properly educated about BZDs. I can understand why you’d be scared to try again after how difficult the last experience was.

What you have going for you is that now you’re more educated (even if your doctor isn’t) than to try cutting your dose by 50%, so you’re not at risk of repeating that same experience. If you try again, you’d know how to taper much more carefully, and strategies beyond cutting dry pills into bits (such as having a liquid formulation compounded at a pharmacy so you can precisely control the reduction in dosage, or using a jeweler’s scale and filing bits off of pills for much higher accuracy than just cutting a pill into quarters). You don’t need to ever again go through the strain of suddenly halving half the dose you’ve been on for years.