How to measure if I am “stable” enough to lower my dose- help

[[Sw...]]

Hey all! I love this website. So much hope here and community. 
 

Klonopin is my benzo. Tapering now for 62 days:

currently I am doing .25 mg at 9 am and .25mg at 3pm. 

my current symptoms:

physical anxiety in my stomach/chest

GI problems

fatigue

tinnitus/ popping ears/ear fullness

loss of appetite but still eating healthy 

headaches/muscle tension in neck, shoulders, head (tension migraine)

afraid to be alone, sitting in a smoothie shop right now. 

have to check in on my breathing a lot as it feels like I’m not breathing at all some times

mornings are my most difficult time of the day with morning cortisol spikes 

i have anxiety all day long but I can manage it and overcome with my thoughts “this is not forever” and I have a great support system in the church and my husband is great 

I do feel like I already have windows and waves. Nighttime are worst tinnitus waves. 

I consider myself functioning. I am getting 8 hours of sleep at night. I have a 6 year old and a husband. I can do most of my tasks. Clean, cook, grocery shop, have “fun”, socialize.

 

id like to now taper down to:

.125 9 am

.125 12pm

.125 3 pm

.06 6pm

id be at roughly .40mg from . 5mg

 

does this seem like I’m stable enough to taper down? 
 

looking for feedback, input, anecdotal stories about tapering. 
 

thanks everyone! We will get through this!

[[de...]]

Hey there!  Only you can decide if you are "stable" enough to make another cut, but it sounds like you are doing pretty well.   If you are able to function including socializing, that is pretty good. 

Just know that the lower you get on your dosage, the symptoms may become more intense.   If this happens you will need to make smaller cuts and hold for longer.

I am sure some others will weigh in and give you their experiences.  

[[Sw...]]

@[de...]Thank you for this I will consider and appreciate all the advice I can get. I just want to make sure I don’t rush anything and can take care of my baby girl 

[[Lo...]]

Hi SweetSurrender!

First and foremost, congratulations on making the decisions to taper off!  It's not an easy one!  

It appears from your post that you're doing quite well!  To answer your question of "How to know if you're stable enough to lower your dose"... the rule of thumb as far as the advice that I received over my years of tapering was to remain "functional" and it seems as though you're doing very well since you're able to go out, care for your 6 year old, and especially get plenty of needed sleep!  This is all wonderful!  

The advice that probably was the most valuable to me (that I didn't follow!) was to listen to your body.  If the symptoms you're experiencing are tolerable then you're probably good to make a cut.  However, pay attention to each cut.  The lower you get the more symptoms can ramp up and you may need to slow down.  However, keep in mind that everyone is different.  Believe it or not, some people are able to taper off with very minimal side effects, and then others have a terrible time.  There's no reason to believe that you will be in the latter category!  If you make a reduction/cut, and after two weeks you haven't leveled out or there is a significant uptick in symptoms, that is probably your cue to hold until you level out to your baseline again.  If there is no increase in symptoms and you're still functional, then you can entertain making another reduction.  Again, just listen to your body, journal your symptoms, and go at a slow pace. 

It sounds like you have a wonderful support system and that is so important!  I'm truly happy for you because it really makes a world of difference.  Sending positive vibes and well wishes your way!  You've got this!  

Fondly,

Lori

[[Sw...]]

@[Lo...]

thank you so much I appreciate this advice it is gold to me. Yes I want to me wise and patient. Patience has never been my thing but I feel ready to lower the dose and see what happens! I value your kind words and support. What a great community of people 

[[Lo...]]

Please keep us posted! We're here to help!  

PS:  The symptoms you're experiencing that you listed are all totally normal in benzo tapering!  

[[je...]]

@[Sw...], could you please update your taper history?

Right now it sounds like you're doing pretty good, but I have difficulty giving taper advice on a single cut you are planning. The problem is that you might be okay right now, but the next cut could send you over the edge. The reason is that cuts have an accummulation effect. They build up over time. It's therefore extremely important to see how you have been tapering over the last couple of months in order to determine how the next cut might possibly affect you. Some of us had to learn that the hard way.

[[Sw...]]

@[je...] my history is very confusing. I will update that info soon but to give you the info ill make a quick response here...

June 10, 2023- take my prescription 1-2mg a day then two mega doses of 9 mg and run out 10 days early. This is now June 19th. I don't refill and within 14 days (even though it was just 3 weeks of use after a four month break ) I am in full blown withdrawal with a multitude of symptoms. *I recently learned about kindling so I think that is what happened to me. stop and go. 

so as of July 13th I started back on .5 mg then went down to .25 mg then had a week of crisis where I went up to 1 mg for around 14 days, dropped back down to .5mg, stable. Symptoms have dramatically improved and lessened. I have done a lot of IV therapies, got into talk therapy, started working on trauma history and grounding techniques to soothe and balance the nervous system. Trying to help my healing as much as I can holistically.

So its messy as you can see. 

I'm 62 days into tapering after a 2 week CT after 3 weeks of use. I plan to cut down by 8-10% based on symptoms over the next however many days/weeks/months. I feel ready to lower to .40 mg. I feel stable. I don't even desire to take the klonopin, I feel like I can overcome these symptoms without the med, so mentally I am in the fight, but I don't want to rush this and make things worse. 

 

 

[[je...]]

When did you go up to 1mg and when did you cut to 0.5mg? How recent was that? This is quite important. 

I understand messy. Mine was messy too at the start and when I started cutting after my messy, it was too soon even though I felt great. But the good news is, once I got it all sorted, my taper was good and I was functional all the way to the end. I'm now 9 months off. 

 

[[Sw...]]

@[je...] way to go! how are you feeling now that your 9 months out?

so it was 

july-august 13 - .25

august 14 - 1mg, 15 1mg, 16 .5mg, 17 1mg, 18 1.25 mg, 19 .75mg, 20 .5mg, 21 .5mg, 22 .5mg, 23 1mg, 24 .5mg, 25 1mg, 26 1 mg, 27 .5 mg, 28 1mg, 29 1mg, 

(10 days of 1 mg dosing)

August 30 .5 mg, 31 .5 mg, 1 .5mg, 2 .5 mg, 3 .5mg, 4 .5mg, 5 .5mg, 6.5 mg\

8 days of .5mg dosing

my question is when do i lower to .4?

[[je...]]

Thanks so much, this is really helpful. With your history of not being able to stop after 3 weeks of use I would not disregard the 10 days of 1mg use. Our normal advice is to cut 5-10% every 2 weeks. Since you kind of made a 50% cut, I would give it at least 3 weeks. Otherwise you run the risk of creating the accummulation effect where these cuts are building and you have not provided enough time inbetween for your body to adjust. There is a very real possibility that 2-3 cuts down the line it can create very bad withdrawal symptoms for you even though you might feel okay now.

I would also not cut to 0.4mg if I were you. If you cut to 0.4mg, that equals a 20% reduction. We don't recommend such huge reductions. 

[[Sw...]]

@[je...] this is very helpful, and wow I never was a math star lol you're right that's way different than what i thought. okay so you think wait two more weeks before cutting again?

[[Sw...]]

@[je...] what is the accumulation effect?

[[je...]]

27 minutes ago, [[S...] said:

@[je...] what is the accumulation effect?

Your brain and body 'remembers' previous cuts. It builds on each other. Cuts are not made in isolation. They keep accummulating until one day it can hit you very hard with symptoms unless you taper within the limit of what your body can handle. And unless you give your body enough time to recover from cuts. Here is a real life example from my taper. In this example I knew about the accummulation effect, so I knew what to expect, it wasn't a surprise to me. But if you don't know, it can be rough. My normal taper rate was 7.5% every 2 weeks. I wanted to see if I could speed it up. I was on a 2 month break from work, so I decided to test and see if I can make 10% cuts. When I did the first 10% cut I was perfectly fine. My symptoms were just like before and I recovered quickly. Then when I did the second 10% cut, I got floored. It was really tough. I was on the couch for about 5 days and struggled to function. Now why was I okay for the first cut, but not the second cut? Both of them were 10%? The reason is the accummulation of cuts. Because my body could not handle the build up of cuts. As I continued to cut, it just got too much to handle. I hope this explanation makes some sense.